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Acquiring knowledge

Heterodox
Posts: 293
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8/30/2015 3:19:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

What makes you think you can acquire either?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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8/30/2015 3:37:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

___possibly "doubt"
In spite of the ancient roots of skepticism--all the way back to the radical Sextus Empiricus and beyond, to Parmenides and Zeno--"doubt" remains a constantly miscomprehended action and posture. Doubt is a state of the suspension of both belief and disbelief: many people assume that thinking has only two positions, positive and negative, and if you doubt something you are disputing its validity or positing the contradictory position. This is disputation, not doubt. Doubt per se questions the form or content of what has been asserted but it itself is a freeform state of wondering what the general parameters of the issue are and how it most rationally ought to be framed. Such particulars as most people are familiar with--position A or not-A, conservative or liberal, Christian or atheist, etc.--are never authoritative or exhaustive alternatives for a truly thinking and creative or radical mind (determined to go for fundamental principles, not their peripheral consequences or specific applications). They are "stock fallacies" or forced choices.
missmedic
Posts: 386
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8/30/2015 3:54:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:19:07 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

What makes you think you can acquire either?

Truth is the non-contradictory identification of reality, and knowledge is gained through a successful evaluation of one's perceptions. Perception is the base of all knowledge, and knowledge is knowledge about reality.
Epica
Posts: 34
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8/30/2015 4:07:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:54:03 AM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:19:07 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

What makes you think you can acquire either?

Truth is the non-contradictory identification of reality, and knowledge is gained through a successful evaluation of one's perceptions. Perception is the base of all knowledge, and knowledge is knowledge about reality.

What do you mean by "non-contradictory identification of reality" something like a coherence theory? How can you justify perception is the base of all knowledge? You'd have to transcend your basis, to prove your basis. Which would mean you can have knowledge sans perception.

Nothing about our perception entails we can accurately reason about the objects in our perception (blindsight).
missmedic
Posts: 386
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8/30/2015 4:18:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:37:22 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

___possibly "doubt"
In spite of the ancient roots of skepticism--all the way back to the radical Sextus Empiricus and beyond, to Parmenides and Zeno--"doubt" remains a constantly miscomprehended action and posture. Doubt is a state of the suspension of both belief and disbelief: many people assume that thinking has only two positions, positive and negative, and if you doubt something you are disputing its validity or positing the contradictory position. This is disputation, not doubt. Doubt per se questions the form or content of what has been asserted but it itself is a freeform state of wondering what the general parameters of the issue are and how it most rationally ought to be framed. Such particulars as most people are familiar with--position A or not-A, conservative or liberal, Christian or atheist, etc.--are never authoritative or exhaustive alternatives for a truly thinking and creative or radical mind (determined to go for fundamental principles, not their peripheral consequences or specific applications). They are "stock fallacies" or forced choices.

A very good answer, right up there with "necessity is the mother of invention" and " learning from our mistakes". Doubt can be a very potent learning tool in the mind of the right person. Doubt can make you seek knowledge and motivates the mind to find answers. I doubt we will find all the answer we seek, but we will learn more from doubt then certainty.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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8/30/2015 4:20:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:54:03 AM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:19:07 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

What makes you think you can acquire either?

Truth is the non-contradictory identification of reality, and knowledge is gained through a successful evaluation of one's perceptions. Perception is the base of all knowledge, and knowledge is knowledge about reality.

What do you use to successfully evaluate your perceptions? What did you use to verify that method?
missmedic
Posts: 386
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8/30/2015 4:36:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:20:15 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:54:03 AM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:19:07 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

What makes you think you can acquire either?

Truth is the non-contradictory identification of reality, and knowledge is gained through a successful evaluation of one's perceptions. Perception is the base of all knowledge, and knowledge is knowledge about reality.

What do you use to successfully evaluate your perceptions?
Perception is an integration of stimulus. It combines different sensory effects over time into a single unified whole. The result is the awareness of entities. We don't see a mass of different colors and brightness. Instead we see a computer monitor, a book, or a cup of grape juice. We see things. This is different then knowing what we see, though. That knowledge is not automatic.

What did you use to verify that method?
There is never a question that what we perceive is accurate. The only question is whether we accurately interpret what we perceive. The way to do this is through reason.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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8/31/2015 10:46:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 4:36:38 AM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/30/2015 4:20:15 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:54:03 AM, missmedic wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:19:07 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth?

What makes you think you can acquire either?

Truth is the non-contradictory identification of reality, and knowledge is gained through a successful evaluation of one's perceptions. Perception is the base of all knowledge, and knowledge is knowledge about reality.

What do you use to successfully evaluate your perceptions?
Perception is an integration of stimulus. It combines different sensory effects over time into a single unified whole. The result is the awareness of entities. We don't see a mass of different colors and brightness. Instead we see a computer monitor, a book, or a cup of grape juice. We see things. This is different then knowing what we see, though. That knowledge is not automatic.

What did you use to verify that method?
There is never a question that what we perceive is accurate. The only question is whether we accurately interpret what we perceive. The way to do this is through reason.

Please prove your idea of what constitutes reason is sufficient to prove your claims and that the idea of what is reasonable to you is actually the correct idea of reason. Please do not appeal to popular beliefs as to examples of what seems reasonable, I need actual proof your acceptance of what is considered to be reason is the correct one.
lostandfound
Posts: 37
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8/31/2015 3:59:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 1:29:39 AM, missmedic wrote:
Is there a better way than reason to acquire knowledge and truth? : :

The best way to acquire knowledge is by listening to those who possess knowledge and truth?