Who has the burden of proof?
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10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM Posted: 1 year ago I think the burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
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11/1/2015 8:43:06 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Lol, prove it. |
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11/2/2015 3:48:28 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Agreed. The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell |
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11/2/2015 4:15:20 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/1/2015 8:43:06 PM, Furyan5 wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: The fact that you are saying for me to prove it proves my point. If the burden of proof is not on the one making the claim, why ask for proof? Also, peove me wrong. |
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11/2/2015 4:16:04 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 3:48:28 AM, Skepticalone wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Thank you. |
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11/2/2015 8:24:02 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Not necessarily. The Burden Of Proof is not always on the person making the claim. If I claim that god doesn't exist in a debate, the BOP tends to remain on the theist to prove God's existence. "Life calls the tune, we dance." John Galsworthy |
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11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: That is to simplistic. If A claims the theory of relativity is true and B claims the theory of relativity is false, both are making a claim. B, however, goes against scientific consensus and therefore has the burden of proof or at least a far greater burden than A has. |
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11/2/2015 7:07:55 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Both have a BoP to support thier claim. The fact that A has a greater burden doesn't absolve B from any BoP. Further more B can't use A's failure of sustaining A's BoP as evidence that B's claim is true. That would be an argument of ignorance. |
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11/2/2015 8:59:54 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Money. At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote: BLACK LIVES MATTER! |
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11/2/2015 9:00:38 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 8:24:02 AM, famousdebater wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: No, actually the bop is on you too if you claim that. At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote: BLACK LIVES MATTER! |
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11/2/2015 9:11:34 PM Posted: 1 year ago I think that the person making the claim has the BoP - but if one is wise that shouldn't be a problem.
For example if I claimed god doesn't exist then I should provide at least some justification for that claim. Being too lazy for that, what I would do is say 'The Pope claims god exists - but where is his proof?' and shift the BoP away. |
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11/2/2015 9:15:12 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 8:59:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: http://imgur.com... |
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11/2/2015 9:16:09 PM Posted: 1 year ago The Burden Of Proof is not always on the person making the claim. If I claim that god doesn't exist in a debate, the BOP tends to remain on the theist to prove God's existence. False. Whilst this is a valid response, it is an expected response to that claim. The burden of proof can be shared in that scenario but it isn't always. I can list examples of debates where the instigator rejects the claim that God exists and the BOP remains on the theist to prove the existence of God. I am on my phone at the moment so I wont list those example now but if you require me to do so, I will post examples when I get access to a computer. Therefore, the BOP isn't always on the person making the claim. "Life calls the tune, we dance." John Galsworthy |
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11/2/2015 9:21:49 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 9:15:12 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 11/2/2015 8:59:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Deficit |
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11/2/2015 9:25:13 PM Posted: 1 year ago There is no reason to believe something is true until evidence has been provided, by definition. So before we have reason to accept something as fact, the one making the claim (or whoever else) has the burden to show that their claim is correct. Until this has been done, the claim is neither proven nor disproven, and therefore there is no reason to operate under the assumption that the claim is true, in which case the one positing the claim has to accept that their claim isn't going to be accepted by those who don't want to make unjustified assumptions. So the burden is on them to give some reason for their conclusion if they want people to have reason to accept it, lest the claim be dismissed as conjecture by reasonable people.
"In case anyone hasn't noticed it, the West is in extremis. The undertaker is checking his watch at the foot of its bed, and there's a sinister kettle of croaking, money-feathered vultures on the roof." |
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11/2/2015 10:05:47 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 9:25:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote: Ridiculous. You say things like 'by definition' but you must be using a different dictionary than the rest of us to define 'true'. Only time I have seen this kind of drivel is when an empiricist is defining justification. People accept as true many things that lack evidence. I'm sure your own world view is full of them. Multiverse, flow of time, other minds ect... If you truly thought what you are preaching you would be a solipsist and nihilist. |
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11/2/2015 10:18:52 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: No it isn't. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. |
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11/2/2015 10:23:18 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 10:18:52 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:Well, of course I might be wrong. But restating your position is not an argument in favor of it.At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: |
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11/2/2015 10:25:54 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 10:23:18 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 11/2/2015 10:18:52 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:Well, of course I might be wrong. But restating your position is not an argument in favor of it.At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Saying that I am wrong does not make me wrong. |
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11/2/2015 10:28:31 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 8:24:02 AM, famousdebater wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: You are wrong. The burden of peoof is on thge one making the claim. |
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11/2/2015 10:29:38 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 10:25:54 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:At 11/2/2015 10:23:18 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 11/2/2015 10:18:52 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:Well, of course I might be wrong. But restating your position is not an argument in favor of it.At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Dude, my original commnt was my argument to that end. |
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11/2/2015 10:31:49 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 10:28:31 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:At 11/2/2015 8:24:02 AM, famousdebater wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: How? You havent responded to what I said at all. "Life calls the tune, we dance." John Galsworthy |
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11/2/2015 10:55:44 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: I don't need any proof when I listen to someone's claim. I sit back and enjoy the claim unless it's an attack about me and my experiences. No one can make a claim based on my experience because it is impossible for the claimant to have experienced the same exact experiences that I had. For instance, when someone calls me a false prophet, they have no way of knowing if I'm a true prophet or not. They would have no evidence to prove that I'm a true prophet or not. |
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11/3/2015 12:01:47 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 10:05:47 PM, Mhykiel wrote:At 11/2/2015 9:25:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote: I say "by definition" because "evidence" means "reason for belief". "In case anyone hasn't noticed it, the West is in extremis. The undertaker is checking his watch at the foot of its bed, and there's a sinister kettle of croaking, money-feathered vultures on the roof." |
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11/3/2015 12:31:41 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 9:16:09 PM, famousdebater wrote:The Burden Of Proof is not always on the person making the claim. If I claim that god doesn't exist in a debate, the BOP tends to remain on the theist to prove God's existence. To reject something is not a claim against something, if I understand correctly. Your example is, by this metric, irrelevant. I would definitely agree that it is not as simplistic as the OP makes it sound. In my eyes, the BoP is decided based upon the specific position held, and the resolution. If a position entails no claim, then it has no burden. If the resolution is about knowledge, which I generally define as a true belief with infallible justification, then both sides possess a burden. If the resolution is about the most reasonable position, positive claims hold a burden. This is generally how I interpret the BoP, at least nowadays. |
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11/3/2015 12:32:36 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 9:16:09 PM, famousdebater wrote:The Burden Of Proof is not always on the person making the claim. If I claim that god doesn't exist in a debate, the BOP tends to remain on the theist to prove God's existence. You aren't just saying that the pro hasn't made their case for the existence of God, you are saying that God doesn't exist. You have back up that claim At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote: BLACK LIVES MATTER! |
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11/3/2015 12:34:31 AM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/2/2015 9:15:12 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 11/2/2015 8:59:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: Incidentally, this is one of my most favorite movies EVER. At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote: BLACK LIVES MATTER! |
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11/3/2015 12:56:23 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 11/3/2015 12:34:31 AM, popculturepooka wrote:At 11/2/2015 9:15:12 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 11/2/2015 8:59:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:At 11/2/2015 4:32:41 PM, Fkkize wrote:At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: So, I got that goin' for me, which is nice. |
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11/3/2015 2:12:45 PM Posted: 1 year ago At 10/31/2015 1:29:05 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote: What if I said there is no burden of proof? It all depends on if you want to convince someone of your beliefs or not. ****Wisdom Begins In Wonder - Socrates**** The path of sound credence is through the thick forest of skepticism - George Jean Nathan |
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11/3/2015 6:41:18 PM Posted: 1 year ago Now, let me be clear that I don't think the default position is to assume that something is not the case until evidence has been provided. I simply think that if someone is making a positive claim, then they must provide evidence as to why we should deviate from neutrality. It's not up to anyone else to prove that we should remain at neutrality, because making assumptions is, by definition, not justified.
"In case anyone hasn't noticed it, the West is in extremis. The undertaker is checking his watch at the foot of its bed, and there's a sinister kettle of croaking, money-feathered vultures on the roof." |