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The ethics series: Case two.

LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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11/15/2015 4:24:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes, if there is sufficient reason to believe he has information, and if many lives are in serious danger. Torture is never good and should be avoided, but if the situation is serious enough and subject can be reasonably believed to have information, then non-lethal torture may be justified.
Nolite Timere
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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11/16/2015 10:54:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's not ethical but it's the lesser of two evils. He's also guilty and the people he's waging war against are not. A type of torture shouldn't exhibit cruel and permanent disfigurement/dismemberment.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 12:42:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 10:54:42 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's not ethical but it's the lesser of two evils. He's also guilty and the people he's waging war against are not. A type of torture shouldn't exhibit cruel and permanent disfigurement/dismemberment.

Fair enough, but where does it stop? If the government is allowed to torture one person, more torture will follow.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,928
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11/17/2015 1:32:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 12:42:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:54:42 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's not ethical but it's the lesser of two evils. He's also guilty and the people he's waging war against are not. A type of torture shouldn't exhibit cruel and permanent disfigurement/dismemberment.

Fair enough, but where does it stop? If the government is allowed to torture one person, more torture will follow.

Where would it stop if nuclear war broke out? Neither choice is ideal
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 1:40:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 1:32:57 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/17/2015 12:42:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/16/2015 10:54:42 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's not ethical but it's the lesser of two evils. He's also guilty and the people he's waging war against are not. A type of torture shouldn't exhibit cruel and permanent disfigurement/dismemberment.

Fair enough, but where does it stop? If the government is allowed to torture one person, more torture will follow.

Where would it stop if nuclear war broke out? Neither choice is ideal

I agree. Someone gets screwed either way.
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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11/17/2015 3:01:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's unethical to torture him. Ethics are subjective of course. Whether or not we should torture him is a different story entirely. Torture is barbaric, and our government shouldn't be allowed to do so. We can't allow exceptions, because if the government is allowed to torture this guy. Why wouldn't they be allowed to torture anyone else?

Not to mention, he could just give false information while being tortured.
#GaryJohnson2016
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LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 3:08:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:01:02 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's unethical to torture him. Ethics are subjective of course. Whether or not we should torture him is a different story entirely. Torture is barbaric, and our government shouldn't be allowed to do so. We can't allow exceptions, because if the government is allowed to torture this guy. Why wouldn't they be allowed to torture anyone else?

Not to mention, he could just give false information while being tortured.

I agree. I was tortured in the past, and I could never wish that on anyone.
komododragon8
Posts: 405
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11/17/2015 3:18:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

The problem is that torture is not an effective way of getting information out of a person. Sometimes coercion is a far better solution. If that doesn't work than torture may be necessary. And after that, put a bullet in his head and leave it at that.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 3:28:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:18:08 AM, komododragon8 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

The problem is that torture is not an effective way of getting information out of a person. Sometimes coercion is a far better solution. If that doesn't work than torture may be necessary. And after that, put a bullet in his head and leave it at that.

More agreement. Torture victims will say anything to stop it.
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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11/17/2015 1:25:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/15/2015 4:24:45 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Yes, if there is sufficient reason to believe he has information, and if many lives are in serious danger. Torture is never good and should be avoided, but if the situation is serious enough and subject can be reasonably believed to have information, then non-lethal torture may be justified.

Agreed. Apply electric shock to his balls for a few hours.. see how it goes? he he
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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11/17/2015 1:29:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:08:03 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:01:02 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

It's unethical to torture him. Ethics are subjective of course. Whether or not we should torture him is a different story entirely. Torture is barbaric, and our government shouldn't be allowed to do so. We can't allow exceptions, because if the government is allowed to torture this guy. Why wouldn't they be allowed to torture anyone else?

Not to mention, he could just give false information while being tortured.

I agree. I was tortured in the past, and I could never wish that on anyone.

yeah? 4 real? who tortured you?
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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12/10/2015 8:03:29 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 11/16/2015 8:16:31 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
For the sheer satisfaction of watching him squirm.

Best Answer
Death23
Posts: 779
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12/10/2015 8:41:23 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

Obvious yes.
THsea
Posts: 36
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12/10/2015 8:58:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

So are we to assume that torture WILL gain the information? And we are to decide if the ends, ethically, justify the means?

I think I agree with those who say it is the lesser of two evils (if the story implies it will yield correct information)... While I do not agree with torture, especially since it tends to not yield very good results...

However, if we had drugs or technology that could strip the person of their ability to make false statements and give us that answer... This would be something that alienates them of their rights and cognitive liberties, and could be considered inhumane treatment. In the circumstances, I would be okay with it. I suppose a high standard of scrutiny would have to be applied to the practice to help prevent abuse of such things.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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12/10/2015 10:12:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/10/2015 8:41:23 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

Obvious yes.
Obviously no. Torture is not only a living rights violation, it produces false intelligence.
Death23
Posts: 779
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12/10/2015 10:29:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/10/2015 10:12:45 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 8:41:23 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

Obvious yes.
Obviously no. Torture is not only a living rights violation, it produces false intelligence.

OK well in your post you said "the only way to gain information is by torturing him". Now you're saying that it's going to be false intelligence. Come on.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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12/10/2015 10:38:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/10/2015 10:29:56 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:12:45 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 8:41:23 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

Obvious yes.
Obviously no. Torture is not only a living rights violation, it produces false intelligence.

OK well in your post you said "the only way to gain information is by torturing him". Now you're saying that it's going to be false intelligence. Come on.

I did not say that torture is acceptable, I presented a fictional story to educate about ethics.
Death23
Posts: 779
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12/11/2015 2:05:50 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/10/2015 10:38:58 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:29:56 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 12/10/2015 10:12:45 PM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 8:41:23 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 11/15/2015 3:53:30 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
This is a fictional story: The leader of the Islamic State terrorist group has been captured and is a suspect in planning a nuclear strike on American soil, and the only way to gain information is by torturing him. Is it ethical to torture him? As always, I will save my beliefs for the comment section so I don't ruin the results.

Obvious yes.
Obviously no. Torture is not only a living rights violation, it produces false intelligence.

OK well in your post you said "the only way to gain information is by torturing him". Now you're saying that it's going to be false intelligence. Come on.

I did not say that torture is acceptable, I presented a fictional story to educate about ethics.

What is your solution to the problem presented in your OP?