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The ethics series: Case three.

LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 4:52:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.

I believe that in this case of an ectopic pregnancy, abortion is justified to save the life of the mother.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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11/17/2015 4:57:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:52:22 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.

I believe that in this case of an ectopic pregnancy, abortion is justified to save the life of the mother.
Well like I said, abortion is loosely defined here. It simply isn't a "pregnancy" abortion if you will.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/17/2015 5:11:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:57:48 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:52:22 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.

I believe that in this case of an ectopic pregnancy, abortion is justified to save the life of the mother.
Well like I said, abortion is loosely defined here. It simply isn't a "pregnancy" abortion if you will.
Like I said, abortion is justified for an ectopic pregnancy. Yes it is an abortion. Yes it is a pregnancy.
Dookieman
Posts: 130
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11/19/2015 3:06:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:52:22 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.

I believe that in this case of an ectopic pregnancy, abortion is justified to save the life of the mother.

Why?
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/19/2015 3:27:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 3:06:15 AM, Dookieman wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:52:22 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.

I believe that in this case of an ectopic pregnancy, abortion is justified to save the life of the mother.

Why?

Why not? Prolife is about all life, not just the baby. The mother has the right to live too.
Dookieman
Posts: 130
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11/19/2015 3:50:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 3:27:00 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/19/2015 3:06:15 AM, Dookieman wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:52:22 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:47:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?
You're using the term abortion in a different way in this case. Ectopic surgery is self defense, plain and simple. So yes, a woman has a right to defend herself against something that may kill her.
In the rare cases that the egg attaches to a place where it could survive, this might be an ethical issue. But usually that would also result in the inability to have further children so the woman is justified in protecting herself and damage to her body because its still a type of self defense.
Oh, I support abortion. It is killing. And I'm for anything that keeps the population of government dependent children to a minimum, so abort as many poor peoples pregnancies as possible.

I believe that in this case of an ectopic pregnancy, abortion is justified to save the life of the mother.

Why?

Why not? Prolife is about all life, not just the baby. The mother has the right to live too.

Being pro-life doesn't entail the view that one ought to preserve all life. Many pro-lifers dine on the flesh of nonhuman animals, which shows they don't respect all life. I realize the mother has a right to live, but how can you justify killing the prenatal human being in order to save the woman's life?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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11/19/2015 4:01:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?

If this is a question regarding women's right to their own body I ask:
A Siamese twin has control over majority of the body. Do they have the right to kill the twin with less?

If it is about the legality of medical abortions...
medical abortion in this scenario has never been illegal. It has never been a question for a doctor when 2 lives are sure to die to save at least one. In the past when breach births had a likelihood to kill child and mother. you might recall such things happening in a movie or story and the mother telling the doctor "what ever it takes save the baby". Doctors would break the pubic bone and extract the child alive. The breaking often killed the mother but in some cases spared both child and mother.

And then the truth about life..

Sometimes perfect is not good enough. Sometimes there is no right answer. Sometimes you can't save everyone. Sometimes nothing you do ends in the best outcome.

This idea that a life of no pain and full of every desire met, is the greatest life one can have..it is in fact the life of sheep and cattle. It is the mind set of a herd animal to the slaughter befitting men and women.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/19/2015 4:06:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 4:01:39 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?

If this is a question regarding women's right to their own body I ask:
A Siamese twin has control over majority of the body. Do they have the right to kill the twin with less?

If it is about the legality of medical abortions...
medical abortion in this scenario has never been illegal. It has never been a question for a doctor when 2 lives are sure to die to save at least one. In the past when breach births had a likelihood to kill child and mother. you might recall such things happening in a movie or story and the mother telling the doctor "what ever it takes save the baby". Doctors would break the pubic bone and extract the child alive. The breaking often killed the mother but in some cases spared both child and mother.

And then the truth about life..

Sometimes perfect is not good enough. Sometimes there is no right answer. Sometimes you can't save everyone. Sometimes nothing you do ends in the best outcome.

This idea that a life of no pain and full of every desire met, is the greatest life one can have..it is in fact the life of sheep and cattle. It is the mind set of a herd animal to the slaughter befitting men and women.

The mother has the right to live too. If I had been ectopic, my mother would have the right to abort me.
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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11/20/2015 2:21:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?

Yes it's justified. The woman should be able to do anything to preserve her life.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/20/2015 2:40:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 2:21:58 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
A woman has an ectopic pregnancy. An ectopic pregnancy is when the child grows in the wrong place. This condition is usually fatal if left untreatred. Both mother and child will die. Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?

Yes it's justified. The woman should be able to do anything to preserve her life.

I agree. Prolife is about all life.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/20/2015 2:41:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?

No.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/20/2015 2:54:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 2:41:36 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:02:35 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Does the woman have the right to an abortion to save her life?

No.
Yes she does. The mother has the right to live.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/20/2015 2:57:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 2:54:51 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Yes she does. The mother has the right to live.

Does she now? Justify it.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/20/2015 3:18:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 2:57:11 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/20/2015 2:54:51 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Yes she does. The mother has the right to live.

Does she now? Justify it.

Prove me wrong. Ir is a fact that the mother also has the live.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/20/2015 3:26:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 3:18:01 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
At 11/20/2015 2:57:11 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/20/2015 2:54:51 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Yes she does. The mother has the right to live.

Does she now? Justify it.

Prove me wrong. Ir is a fact that the mother also has the live.

I am telling you there is not. There is no evidence that there is. There is a philosophical basis that there is not, such as the simple fact that rights are a social construct that is only visible when backed by an authoritative arm, IE...

your rights only exist insomuch as the authority accepts them to be legitimate

With that said, make an argument about how rights do actually exist, such as the right you claim mothers have to life.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/20/2015 3:35:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 3:34:00 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Fact: The mother has the right to live.

*Sigh*

You aren't that bright, are you?
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/20/2015 3:39:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 3:35:37 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/20/2015 3:34:00 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
Fact: The mother has the right to live.

*Sigh*

You aren't that bright, are you?

You need to stop trolling and debate the facts. Women with ectopic pregnancies have the right to save their own lives.
Sam7411
Posts: 959
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11/20/2015 3:43:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
That is not the point. It comes down to whether the woman is saved and the baby dies or the woman and baby both die. It is pointless to disregard "abortion" in this case purely because of principle.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/20/2015 3:58:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 3:39:49 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
You need to stop trolling and debate the facts. Women with ectopic pregnancies have the right to save their own lives.

What you are doing is not arguing. Everytime I have engaged you, for some reason you keep repeating yourself over and over.

Just say ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING, to justify why you think women have this right.
LiberalProlifer
Posts: 803
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11/20/2015 4:02:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 3:58:12 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
At 11/20/2015 3:39:49 AM, LiberalProlifer wrote:
You need to stop trolling and debate the facts. Women with ectopic pregnancies have the right to save their own lives.

What you are doing is not arguing. Everytime I have engaged you, for some reason you keep repeating yourself over and over.

Just say ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING, to justify why you think women have this right.

You have the right to your opinion.