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Are facts subjective?

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/6/2015 9:32:00 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Are squares round?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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12/7/2015 1:47:14 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

Facts=truth

If truth is subjective, you cannot say "truth is subjective",

thus truth is objective
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/7/2015 3:51:27 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

Oh and How we will see all the misguided post here.

Fact is something that is in accordance with reality.

Truth is said to that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

Objective is defined as (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Subjective is defined as taking place within the mind and modified by individual bias.

And all the fools (Atheist) who want to come up and reply with all kinds of other definitions for these words can be easily silenced.

I Love my Mother. That is a Subjective Fact.
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,226
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12/7/2015 10:44:18 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
No.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

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SM2
Posts: 546
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12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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12/7/2015 10:18:51 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

For me they are not, I don't have a political or social agenda.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/8/2015 4:02:48 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM, SM2 wrote:
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.

Clearly the evidence of my actions do affirm that I love my Mom, or someone loving their wife. It is a statement that is supported by observations and evidence that make in in accordance to reality.

Philosophically any statement made from a 1st person perspective of their inner thoughts is to be taken a true premise.

The idea that something can not be a fact if it can not be falsified is a falsehood. The criteria for falsification is a criteria of a methodology not some core precept of Logic or Reality.

Quite simple the statement I love my mother is backed by evidence and while subjective must conclude in truthfulness as much as any claim you accept about reality.

Whats so sickening, is that the liberal atheist want to say there are no subjective facts but in turn adopt a philosophy of political correctness in which every thing is subjective. The equate subjective with being neither true or false.

"I love my mother" HELLO!, in REALITY that can either be True or it can be False. It can't be both. So if it is true than it is true in this reality and therefore a Fact.

It is a FACT that I love my mother. It is a fact that I like chocolate more than vanilla. Those are facts about me.

Keep saying your perversion of objective and subjective, repeat it enough times the propaganda will spread forth.

You want to imagine the Subjective automatically mean false, or that it automatically means unreal. That is the thinking of a doofus.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/8/2015 4:07:04 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

By definition, no. However to proclaim something as fact is merely to proclaim it as true, and to proclaim something as true is merely to proclaim it your belief. So in the end, all we can do is appeal to our own beliefs. This is what I call the "belief box". Any attempt to get yourself out of it, only serves to affirm that you are still in it.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/8/2015 4:08:32 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:02:48 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM, SM2 wrote:
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.

Clearly the evidence of my actions do affirm that I love my Mom, or someone loving their wife. It is a statement that is supported by observations and evidence that make in in accordance to reality.

Philosophically any statement made from a 1st person perspective of their inner thoughts is to be taken a true premise.

The idea that something can not be a fact if it can not be falsified is a falsehood. The criteria for falsification is a criteria of a methodology not some core precept of Logic or Reality.

Quite simple the statement I love my mother is backed by evidence and while subjective must conclude in truthfulness as much as any claim you accept about reality.

Whats so sickening, is that the liberal atheist want to say there are no subjective facts but in turn adopt a philosophy of political correctness in which every thing is subjective. The equate subjective with being neither true or false.

"I love my mother" HELLO!, in REALITY that can either be True or it can be False. It can't be both. So if it is true than it is true in this reality and therefore a Fact.

It is a FACT that I love my mother. It is a fact that I like chocolate more than vanilla. Those are facts about me.

Keep saying your perversion of objective and subjective, repeat it enough times the propaganda will spread forth.

You want to imagine the Subjective automatically mean false, or that it automatically means unreal. That is the thinking of a doofus.

http://i.imgur.com...
tejretics
Posts: 6,080
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12/8/2015 4:13:41 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/7/2015 1:47:14 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

Facts=truth

If truth is subjective, you cannot say "truth is subjective",

thus truth is objective

The second premise is question begging, since that premise itself holds itself to be "true," which, if subjective, is false. The statement "epistemological nihilism is justifiably true" doesn't necessarily contradict once a relative definition of "truth" is used. Further, even if epistemological nihilism is not fundamentally justified, it doesn't mean it is not justified relative to other statements, viz. the latter position can coherently be "more sound" than other positions. Under epistemic nihilism, P2 might not pose a problem - considering that if truth is subjective, then so is the Law of Noncontradiction.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/8/2015 4:17:37 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:08:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:02:48 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM, SM2 wrote:
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.

Clearly the evidence of my actions do affirm that I love my Mom, or someone loving their wife. It is a statement that is supported by observations and evidence that make in in accordance to reality.

Philosophically any statement made from a 1st person perspective of their inner thoughts is to be taken a true premise.

The idea that something can not be a fact if it can not be falsified is a falsehood. The criteria for falsification is a criteria of a methodology not some core precept of Logic or Reality.

Quite simple the statement I love my mother is backed by evidence and while subjective must conclude in truthfulness as much as any claim you accept about reality.

Whats so sickening, is that the liberal atheist want to say there are no subjective facts but in turn adopt a philosophy of political correctness in which every thing is subjective. The equate subjective with being neither true or false.

"I love my mother" HELLO!, in REALITY that can either be True or it can be False. It can't be both. So if it is true than it is true in this reality and therefore a Fact.

It is a FACT that I love my mother. It is a fact that I like chocolate more than vanilla. Those are facts about me.

Keep saying your perversion of objective and subjective, repeat it enough times the propaganda will spread forth.

You want to imagine the Subjective automatically mean false, or that it automatically means unreal. That is the thinking of a doofus.

http://i.imgur.com...

Oh your are so brilliant. Let's see if you can answer these questions.

"I love my mother" Is that either TRUE or is it FALSE.

Let's assume that it is TRUE, Does that statement describe something in reality? Why by golly it does.

Here is an easier one for you. "I think" Is that a True premise for you?

Is that a fact that you think? I hope so.

Is you thinking something that occurs int he mind and is bias by individual perspective? OH great golly it is.

So the first premise to "I think: therefore I am" is a subjective fact that when taken as true leads to an objective conclusion of self existence.

I await some real rebuttals instead of atheist cliches. Here is a hint try using examples from reality to illustrate your point, or perhaps you can pick up a dictionary and read the definition of the words fact and subjective. Maybe if you weren't so intent in drinking the poisonous kool-aid of atheist propaganda you could stir up some kind of contention built upon intellectual honesty and rationale.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/8/2015 4:20:07 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:17:37 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:08:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:02:48 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM, SM2 wrote:
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.

Clearly the evidence of my actions do affirm that I love my Mom, or someone loving their wife. It is a statement that is supported by observations and evidence that make in in accordance to reality.

Philosophically any statement made from a 1st person perspective of their inner thoughts is to be taken a true premise.

The idea that something can not be a fact if it can not be falsified is a falsehood. The criteria for falsification is a criteria of a methodology not some core precept of Logic or Reality.

Quite simple the statement I love my mother is backed by evidence and while subjective must conclude in truthfulness as much as any claim you accept about reality.

Whats so sickening, is that the liberal atheist want to say there are no subjective facts but in turn adopt a philosophy of political correctness in which every thing is subjective. The equate subjective with being neither true or false.

"I love my mother" HELLO!, in REALITY that can either be True or it can be False. It can't be both. So if it is true than it is true in this reality and therefore a Fact.

It is a FACT that I love my mother. It is a fact that I like chocolate more than vanilla. Those are facts about me.

Keep saying your perversion of objective and subjective, repeat it enough times the propaganda will spread forth.

You want to imagine the Subjective automatically mean false, or that it automatically means unreal. That is the thinking of a doofus.

http://i.imgur.com...

Oh your are so brilliant. Let's see if you can answer these questions.

"I love my mother" Is that either TRUE or is it FALSE.

Let's assume that it is TRUE, Does that statement describe something in reality? Why by golly it does.

Here is an easier one for you. "I think" Is that a True premise for you?

Is that a fact that you think? I hope so.

Is you thinking something that occurs int he mind and is bias by individual perspective? OH great golly it is.

So the first premise to "I think: therefore I am" is a subjective fact that when taken as true leads to an objective conclusion of self existence.

I await some real rebuttals instead of atheist cliches. Here is a hint try using examples from reality to illustrate your point, or perhaps you can pick up a dictionary and read the definition of the words fact and subjective. Maybe if you weren't so intent in drinking the poisonous kool-aid of atheist propaganda you could stir up some kind of contention built upon intellectual honesty and rationale.

http://i.imgur.com...
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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12/8/2015 4:21:07 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:13:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 12/7/2015 1:47:14 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

Facts=truth

If truth is subjective, you cannot say "truth is subjective",

thus truth is objective

The second premise is question begging, since that premise itself holds itself to be "true," which, if subjective, is false. The statement "epistemological nihilism is justifiably true" doesn't necessarily contradict once a relative definition of "truth" is used. Further, even if epistemological nihilism is not fundamentally justified, it doesn't mean it is not justified relative to other statements, viz. the latter position can coherently be "more sound" than other positions. Under epistemic nihilism, P2 might not pose a problem - considering that if truth is subjective, then so is the Law of Noncontradiction.

I fvcking hate epistemology, I give up.
tejretics
Posts: 6,080
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12/8/2015 4:21:48 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:21:07 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:13:41 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 12/7/2015 1:47:14 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/6/2015 9:19:41 PM, smelisox wrote:
Thoughts?

Facts=truth

If truth is subjective, you cannot say "truth is subjective",

thus truth is objective

The second premise is question begging, since that premise itself holds itself to be "true," which, if subjective, is false. The statement "epistemological nihilism is justifiably true" doesn't necessarily contradict once a relative definition of "truth" is used. Further, even if epistemological nihilism is not fundamentally justified, it doesn't mean it is not justified relative to other statements, viz. the latter position can coherently be "more sound" than other positions. Under epistemic nihilism, P2 might not pose a problem - considering that if truth is subjective, then so is the Law of Noncontradiction.

I fvcking hate epistemology, I give up.

This was my response to that as well, lol.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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12/8/2015 4:23:51 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:20:07 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:17:37 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:08:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:02:48 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM, SM2 wrote:
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.

Clearly the evidence of my actions do affirm that I love my Mom, or someone loving their wife. It is a statement that is supported by observations and evidence that make in in accordance to reality.

Philosophically any statement made from a 1st person perspective of their inner thoughts is to be taken a true premise.

The idea that something can not be a fact if it can not be falsified is a falsehood. The criteria for falsification is a criteria of a methodology not some core precept of Logic or Reality.

Quite simple the statement I love my mother is backed by evidence and while subjective must conclude in truthfulness as much as any claim you accept about reality.

Whats so sickening, is that the liberal atheist want to say there are no subjective facts but in turn adopt a philosophy of political correctness in which every thing is subjective. The equate subjective with being neither true or false.

"I love my mother" HELLO!, in REALITY that can either be True or it can be False. It can't be both. So if it is true than it is true in this reality and therefore a Fact.

It is a FACT that I love my mother. It is a fact that I like chocolate more than vanilla. Those are facts about me.

Keep saying your perversion of objective and subjective, repeat it enough times the propaganda will spread forth.

You want to imagine the Subjective automatically mean false, or that it automatically means unreal. That is the thinking of a doofus.

http://i.imgur.com...

Oh your are so brilliant. Let's see if you can answer these questions.

"I love my mother" Is that either TRUE or is it FALSE.

Let's assume that it is TRUE, Does that statement describe something in reality? Why by golly it does.

Here is an easier one for you. "I think" Is that a True premise for you?

Is that a fact that you think? I hope so.

Is you thinking something that occurs int he mind and is bias by individual perspective? OH great golly it is.

So the first premise to "I think: therefore I am" is a subjective fact that when taken as true leads to an objective conclusion of self existence.

I await some real rebuttals instead of atheist cliches. Here is a hint try using examples from reality to illustrate your point, or perhaps you can pick up a dictionary and read the definition of the words fact and subjective. Maybe if you weren't so intent in drinking the poisonous kool-aid of atheist propaganda you could stir up some kind of contention built upon intellectual honesty and rationale.

http://i.imgur.com...

Oh big surprise another Atheist who rejects God and supporting their own claims. Thank you my vitriol of atheist jabbering is only further justified by your inaction and intellectual poverty.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/8/2015 4:26:47 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/8/2015 4:23:51 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:20:07 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:17:37 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:08:32 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/8/2015 4:02:48 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 12/7/2015 9:58:09 PM, SM2 wrote:
In order for a piece of information to be a "fact", it must be objectively verifiable by other people. "I love my mum" is not a fact, because it can never be confirmed simply by digging through evidence. That doesn't make it any less true, nor does it prevent a sufficiently intelligent person from deducing it.

Clearly the evidence of my actions do affirm that I love my Mom, or someone loving their wife. It is a statement that is supported by observations and evidence that make in in accordance to reality.

Philosophically any statement made from a 1st person perspective of their inner thoughts is to be taken a true premise.

The idea that something can not be a fact if it can not be falsified is a falsehood. The criteria for falsification is a criteria of a methodology not some core precept of Logic or Reality.

Quite simple the statement I love my mother is backed by evidence and while subjective must conclude in truthfulness as much as any claim you accept about reality.

Whats so sickening, is that the liberal atheist want to say there are no subjective facts but in turn adopt a philosophy of political correctness in which every thing is subjective. The equate subjective with being neither true or false.

"I love my mother" HELLO!, in REALITY that can either be True or it can be False. It can't be both. So if it is true than it is true in this reality and therefore a Fact.

It is a FACT that I love my mother. It is a fact that I like chocolate more than vanilla. Those are facts about me.

Keep saying your perversion of objective and subjective, repeat it enough times the propaganda will spread forth.

You want to imagine the Subjective automatically mean false, or that it automatically means unreal. That is the thinking of a doofus.

http://i.imgur.com...

Oh your are so brilliant. Let's see if you can answer these questions.

"I love my mother" Is that either TRUE or is it FALSE.

Let's assume that it is TRUE, Does that statement describe something in reality? Why by golly it does.

Here is an easier one for you. "I think" Is that a True premise for you?

Is that a fact that you think? I hope so.

Is you thinking something that occurs int he mind and is bias by individual perspective? OH great golly it is.

So the first premise to "I think: therefore I am" is a subjective fact that when taken as true leads to an objective conclusion of self existence.

I await some real rebuttals instead of atheist cliches. Here is a hint try using examples from reality to illustrate your point, or perhaps you can pick up a dictionary and read the definition of the words fact and subjective. Maybe if you weren't so intent in drinking the poisonous kool-aid of atheist propaganda you could stir up some kind of contention built upon intellectual honesty and rationale.

http://i.imgur.com...

Oh big surprise another Atheist who rejects God and supporting their own claims. Thank you my vitriol of atheist jabbering is only further justified by your inaction and intellectual poverty.

Here's what God thinks of your response:

http://i.imgur.com...
GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/10/2015 10:46:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Yes. The sky is blue or grayish blue or whatever you perceive would be incorrect andnonfactual in another reality. In another reality, there is no sky, it most certainly isn't blue, and obviouslyI am your daddy. Now fight me because I'm bored.