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True but false.

Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
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12/26/2015 6:55:33 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

The law of noncontradiction is that something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense, so if a statement is inherently vague so that it's sometimes true and false at other times, or could be interpreted differently to be true or false, this does not break the law of noncontradiction because the statement could be paraphrased into several more specific ones to resolve the contradiction.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/27/2015 6:05:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 6:55:33 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

The law of noncontradiction is that something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense, so if a statement is inherently vague so that it's sometimes true and false at other times, or could be interpreted differently to be true or false, this does not break the law of noncontradiction because the statement could be paraphrased into several more specific ones to resolve the contradiction.

OK cool thanks , I'm going to try and give this up. I've been addicted to this for a about 2 months now . My new years resolution will be to kick this habit. It started innocently, I read a statement something can't be true and false, then It progressed from flip of a coin to this. I know I need help , but I belive I can do it. Thx man .
BlueDreams
Posts: 199
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12/27/2015 9:31:51 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
If you're indexing your propositions to time, then your example still doesn't illustrate that a proposition can be true and false simultaneously, for at temporal state A, the first tradition is correct, and at temporal state B, the second tradition is correct, but at no point do these temporal states overlap.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/28/2015 12:42:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 6:55:33 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

The law of noncontradiction is that something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense, so if a statement is inherently vague so that it's sometimes true and false at other times, or could be interpreted differently to be true or false, this does not break the law of noncontradiction because the statement could be paraphrased into several more specific ones to resolve the contradiction.

Someone who is born on the 29th of February shares the same birthday as someone who is born on the 1st of march.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/28/2015 12:54:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/27/2015 9:31:51 AM, BlueDreams wrote:
If you're indexing your propositions to time, then your example still doesn't illustrate that a proposition can be true and false simultaneously, for at temporal state A, the first tradition is correct, and at temporal state B, the second tradition is correct, but at no point do these temporal states overlap.

If need be till the age of 3
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/28/2015 1:02:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 12:54:37 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 12/27/2015 9:31:51 AM, BlueDreams wrote:
If you're indexing your propositions to time, then your example still doesn't illustrate that a proposition can be true and false simultaneously, for at temporal state A, the first tradition is correct, and at temporal state B, the second tradition is correct, but at no point do these temporal states overlap.

If need be till the age of 3

And if the person born on the 1 st of march is 1 year younger. Maybe
IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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12/28/2015 7:03:40 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

I am a lizard like reptilian alian. True or false?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/28/2015 7:10:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/28/2015 7:03:40 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

I am a lizard like reptilian alian. True or false?

Dunno . I'm going to lock in false . Roger that ten 4.
Copie
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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12/29/2015 3:34:09 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

This is where the need to be specific comes into play. Often times when having these discussions, especially for novice debaters, very basic points are missed because people are looking at things from completely different perspectives.

Before we can have a discussion about whether it is correct to celebrate your birthday on the 1st of March you have to determine what "correct" is. If we're merely talking about dates on a calendar then then it is incorrect. If we're talking about the number of years (defined by the earth position with respect to the sun) then it is correct since it is in the same position on that date.

This is why in debates you see often times very basic words being defined in the opening round. You might wonder why but after seeing enough of these go terribly wrong you learn the importance of being clear. The truth of a statement depends on the specifics defined within that statement. When statements are left vague so that they can be interpreted many different ways then its truth value can bounce back and fourth just the same.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/30/2015 4:06:37 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
If people can be born on the 29th of February, and people can build or do things on that day, like open a mall or finish a building. They then celebrate / or correctly age it on the 1st of march. Then the 1st of march is both the 29th of Feb and the 1st of march. So without discrimination. every leap year contains 2 extra days. A true singular 29th of February and a true singular 1st of march. I don't know what you want to call the 3 other 29/1 Febumarchry. I leave that to you. The 1st of march only happens once every 4 years. I know it's absolute rubbish. But I think you can find a argument.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/30/2015 11:00:40 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
( A video link call. ) they have a letter or something on a table. Holding the camera on it reading it to you. Can you see the letter they are reading to you. 500 miles away. If you say yes because of a device or technology. So you can see the letter there reading but it's not the actual letter but you can see it. I hate having 2 think about crap like this. I got 2 more days left , then I am giving it up. Just amuse me.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/30/2015 11:10:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I am aware the sky's not blue , and that bucket is not red. And that might be considered . But I don't like it.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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12/31/2015 9:20:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

Hi Deb,
Words for something that cannot be true and false at the same time are.... obvious, certain, explicit, definite, factual.
Words for things which can be perceived to be true and false at the same time are.... ambiguous, inconclusive, obscure, puzzling.

It seems truth and falsehood often relates to human perception since life is filled with ambiguities. It depends on how people think. Very few manage to see things from opposite perspectives at the same time.

Here are some statements that can be perceived as true and/or false. Tell me if you think they are true or false or if you can see both perspectives...
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West.
Fire burns.
Living things die.
I am a complusive liar.
A person can be dead and alive at the same time.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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12/31/2015 11:48:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 9:20:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

Hi Deb,
Words for something that cannot be true and false at the same time are.... obvious, certain, explicit, definite, factual.
Words for things which can be perceived to be true and false at the same time are.... ambiguous, inconclusive, obscure, puzzling.

It seems truth and falsehood often relates to human perception since life is filled with ambiguities. It depends on how people think. Very few manage to see things from opposite perspectives at the same time.

Here are some statements that can be perceived as true and/or false. Tell me if you think they are true or false or if you can see both perspectives...
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West.
Fire burns.
Living things die.
I am a complusive liar.
A person can be dead and alive at the same time.

I like it thanks the top 3 are good. What's a person can be dead and alive. ?
If you hold dry ice in your hand it burns 2. Ice burns. When I first heard the statement that something can't be true and false at the same time it did not feel right. Your statements and my stupidly worded statements. Still will not break the law of noncontradiction, tho.
They might say because they can be worded different or something . I've been shot down heaps of times. Maybe my bad spelling can be true and false, ha ha Thx sky. Happy new year.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/1/2016 12:33:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 11:48:19 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 12/31/2015 9:20:46 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 12/26/2015 6:31:35 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Hi guys. I'm asking politely for a little help in understanding the ,can't be true and false at the same time . Thing . I can't spell so please let it slide.) Q 1 what's the name for can't be true and false at same time? Anyway I'll get to it. I was born on the 29th of February, most of the time I celebrate my B day on the 1st of march. This is true to do so. Its correct to do this 3 out of 4 times but it's not true. If I was born on the 1st of march , I would not celebrate it on the 29th of Feb , 1 out of 4 wich maybe could be valid. If the other way is correct. This is where I'm hatching my something can be true and false at the same time from. I know I am going to getting your a idiot replys, I can deal with it, any ideas on a sentence that could be true and false? Thanks . To me celebrating on the 1st is true but false.

Hi Deb,
Words for something that cannot be true and false at the same time are.... obvious, certain, explicit, definite, factual.
Words for things which can be perceived to be true and false at the same time are.... ambiguous, inconclusive, obscure, puzzling.

It seems truth and falsehood often relates to human perception since life is filled with ambiguities. It depends on how people think. Very few manage to see things from opposite perspectives at the same time.

Here are some statements that can be perceived as true and/or false. Tell me if you think they are true or false or if you can see both perspectives...
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West.
Fire burns.
Living things die.
I am a complusive liar.
A person can be dead and alive at the same time.

I like it thanks the top 3 are good. What's a person can be dead and alive. ?

What do you mean by good? Are they true of false or both in your perception ?
A person who is brain dead is legally dead but their body might still be alive as in having functioning organs which are kept alive artificially on life support machines. If the organs other than the brain are alive and functioning, is the person dead or alive? Functioning organs are part of the person are they not? Are you your whole body or just your brain?
In a metaphorical sense, "brain dead" can simply mean stupid and does not necessarily mean the physical brain is not functioning.

If you hold dry ice in your hand it burns 2. Ice burns. When I first heard the statement that something can't be true and false at the same time it did not feel right. Your statements and my stupidly worded statements. Still will not break the law of noncontradiction, tho.

Yes ice can burn and fire can burn without actually burning some things. Not all things can be burned with fire.

The law of noncontradiction confines statements to one context but some statements cannot be confined to one context and since that is true, those statements become ambiguous.

Take the statement made by Jesus.... John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Never die? It seems to be a lie in the context of physical reality since all people physically die.
Many claim the concept of "never die" is true in the context of spirituality because they believe spirits live forever, some in eternal peace and love, some in eternal torture and damnation because they did not believe.
The ironic thing is that either way they are still living forever or "never die" as spirits in both scenarios. Therefore belief or non belief makes no difference to "never die". The difference is living in eternal torment or eternal peace in the story.
However, even in the context of physical reality, it depends on how you define the word "die" If death is simply a change of form, we might very well all continue to live as energy in space when the energy within our body departs from the body. Where else would it go but evaporate into space/air like water evaporates into the air?
When all the "living water" from your body evaporates, is it still alive? Is water alive in the first place? Some think it is and others don't believe it is.

They might say because they can be worded different or something . I've been shot down heaps of times. Maybe my bad spelling can be true and false, ha ha Thx sky. Happy new year.

When we communicate with other living people we can ask questions to clarify what we don't understand but when reading ancient texts which have dead authors, there is no way to confront the author about the meaning of the text.
Therefore readers end up debating its meanings especially when it comes to ambiguous religious texts which talk about spiritual life and death as well as about physical life and death and leave the separation of the concepts to readers.

That is why I think it is smart to understand as many aspects of any ambiguous texts as possible.