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Imagine a State of Nothingness.

snkcake666
Posts: 37
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1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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1/20/2016 6:10:08 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.
Ok,

That was easy.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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1/20/2016 6:35:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Ok, here goes, I'm done. What now?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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1/20/2016 10:07:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Okay I'm in the mind of a liberal. Now what?
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/20/2016 10:11:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

You ask the impossible.

1. Anything we can conceive either exists or does not exist
2. Anything that does not exist is nothing
3. It is impossible to conceive a concept of nothingness. To formulate a concept, something must be thought of.
4. We cannot conceive a concept of that which does not exist
C: Therefore, anything we conceive is something
snkcake666
Posts: 37
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1/20/2016 10:52:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 10:07:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Okay I'm in the mind of a liberal. Now what?

Clever.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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1/20/2016 11:03:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 10:07:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Okay I'm in the mind of a liberal. Now what?

Bump
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
geho89
Posts: 29
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1/21/2016 12:48:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I like to use the example of what I see with my imaginary eye on the back of my head to explain the concept of "nothing". So I ask you, describe what you see that is behind you. It is in no comparison to "black" because that is what you see when you close your eyes and that is not equivalent to "nothing".
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/21/2016 2:23:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Impossible.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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1/21/2016 1:00:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 6:35:45 AM, sadolite wrote:
Ok, here goes, I'm done. What now?

Describe it.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
stealspell
Posts: 980
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1/21/2016 8:01:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Exactly. Nothingness is an abstract rather than concrete word/concept/idea. The opposite is also impossible: a state of everythingness.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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1/22/2016 12:29:25 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/21/2016 1:00:16 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 1/20/2016 6:35:45 AM, sadolite wrote:
Ok, here goes, I'm done. What now?

Describe it.

OK here goes
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
n7
Posts: 1,360
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1/22/2016 12:42:51 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Imagination requires the object of imagination to be an intentional state. But with nothingness, there's nothing to be intentional towards. And nothingness cannot be counted as a "state" in the first place. Imagining a state of nothingness is impossible.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
n7
Posts: 1,360
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1/22/2016 12:43:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 10:07:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Okay I'm in the mind of a liberal. Now what?

Saw this joke coming a mile away.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/22/2016 1:13:08 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/21/2016 1:00:16 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 1/20/2016 6:35:45 AM, sadolite wrote:
Ok, here goes, I'm done. What now?

Describe it.

It should have no description.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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1/22/2016 2:30:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 12:43:23 AM, n7 wrote:
At 1/20/2016 10:07:49 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Okay I'm in the mind of a liberal. Now what?

Saw this joke coming a mile away.

And yet the humour of it wasn't in the least bit diminished!
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/24/2016 1:45:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 10:11:00 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

You ask the impossible.

1. Anything we can conceive either exists or does not exist
2. Anything that does not exist is nothing
3. It is impossible to conceive a concept of nothingness. To formulate a concept, something must be thought of.
4. We cannot conceive a concept of that which does not exist
C: Therefore, anything we conceive is something

If this were true how do we have a word "nothing" clearly we have a concept of something and have named it "nothing".
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/24/2016 4:21:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 1:45:09 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/20/2016 10:11:00 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

You ask the impossible.

1. Anything we can conceive either exists or does not exist
2. Anything that does not exist is nothing
3. It is impossible to conceive a concept of nothingness. To formulate a concept, something must be thought of.
4. We cannot conceive a concept of that which does not exist
C: Therefore, anything we conceive is something

If this were true how do we have a word "nothing" clearly we have a concept of something and have named it "nothing".

I don't understand your rebuttal. Can you be more clear?

The very fact that there is a concept in existence (i.e. this concept that we call nothing) is proof that that everything we can conceive is something. A concept, by definition, must be something that is thought of.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,731
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1/24/2016 4:38:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I believe this is the most fascinating question in all of philosophy: why did anything ever come to exist? Why not just nothing? Trying to imagine this nothingness is something any philosopher worth his salt ought to try on occasion. It's like a sort of meditation...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/24/2016 5:04:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 4:21:35 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/24/2016 1:45:09 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 1/20/2016 10:11:00 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

You ask the impossible.

1. Anything we can conceive either exists or does not exist
2. Anything that does not exist is nothing
3. It is impossible to conceive a concept of nothingness. To formulate a concept, something must be thought of.
4. We cannot conceive a concept of that which does not exist
C: Therefore, anything we conceive is something

If this were true how do we have a word "nothing" clearly we have a concept of something and have named it "nothing".

I don't understand your rebuttal. Can you be more clear?

The very fact that there is a concept in existence (i.e. this concept that we call nothing) is proof that that everything we can conceive is something. A concept, by definition, must be something that is thought of.

I think it better to say that everything we conceive of is either in the mind or has a reference outside reality.

nothing is (no thing) and the OP asked if we could imagine "nothing". And the OP was clear on what they considered "thing" to be. space time ect...

Are you suggesting that a mental concept is a thing with space? time? substance? or is composed of anything?

In this respect the only place "no thing" can be perceived is as a mental concept.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/25/2016 11:17:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 5:04:26 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

I think it better to say that everything we conceive of is either in the mind or has a reference outside reality.

nothing is (no thing) and the OP asked if we could imagine "nothing". And the OP was clear on what they considered "thing" to be. space time ect...

Are you suggesting that a mental concept is a thing with space? time? substance? or is composed of anything?

Regardless of what the mental concept is, it is a thing. A thing cannot be no thing.


In this respect the only place "no thing" can be perceived is as a mental concept.

Nothing, as the OP described (interestingly), should be something that cannot be perceived or described. It should be something without description, as it does not exist.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/26/2016 4:47:01 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 11:17:08 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/24/2016 5:04:26 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

I think it better to say that everything we conceive of is either in the mind or has a reference outside reality.

nothing is (no thing) and the OP asked if we could imagine "nothing". And the OP was clear on what they considered "thing" to be. space time ect...

Are you suggesting that a mental concept is a thing with space? time? substance? or is composed of anything?

Regardless of what the mental concept is, it is a thing. A thing cannot be no thing.


In this respect the only place "no thing" can be perceived is as a mental concept.

Nothing, as the OP described (interestingly), should be something that cannot be perceived or described. It should be something without description, as it does not exist.

But you just described it as the lack of descriptors.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/26/2016 5:18:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 4:47:01 AM, Mhykiel wrote:

But you just described it as the lack of descriptors.

That's why I find it interesting that the OP described it that way.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/31/2016 2:07:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

I can't.

Just like I can't remember anything from a decade before I was born.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,940
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1/31/2016 8:45:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:06:26 AM, snkcake666 wrote:
Not simply a vacuum of space, void of matter. But stripped of space itself, color itself, or rather, the inherent comprehension of the color "black". A state in which distance nor time exist, but frankly a state of nonexistence. It seems essentially impossible to imagine a concept without fundamental property of its own.

Nothingness as is quantum fluctuations?
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy