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What is Truth ?

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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1/26/2016 10:07:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Are you expecting someone to get lucky and respond with profound exception?
Expect a boring Christian to rant about Jesus. Expect an atheist to ramble about falsifiable standards for determining truth. Expect agnostics to be neutral. Expect me to demonstrate the perils of not being wise enough to have a sophisticated perception of what truth could be; logic is close, but not perfect.
difference
Posts: 177
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1/26/2016 11:13:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
vi_spex has said that your physical experience is true and that anything else is either your memory or your imagination.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/26/2016 11:18:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:07:37 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Are you expecting someone to get lucky and respond with profound exception?
Expect a boring Christian to rant about Jesus. Expect an atheist to ramble about falsifiable standards for determining truth. Expect agnostics to be neutral. Expect me to demonstrate the perils of not being wise enough to have a sophisticated perception of what truth could be; logic is close, but not perfect.

What is logic to you ?
What is perfection to you ?

Christians rant about a mythical character and have no clue what they even mean when they say Jesus is the Truth. They simply can't explain it in plain English without using religious jargon.

Atheists are mostly so involved in their scientific methods and get so distracted by their methods of thinking that they get lost in the process and forget to think naturally.

Agnostics don't like to commit themselves to anything in particular.

Personally I view truth as being reality.
It has many different aspects to it which all make up one reality.
Honesty is one of those aspects.
That is simple enough for any child to understand if they wanted to. No sophistication or wisdom necessary.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/26/2016 11:27:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:13:16 PM, difference wrote:
vi_spex has said that your physical experience is true and that anything else is either your memory or your imagination.

Vi_ spex can speak for themselves if they wish to get involved in this discussion.
What do you say ?
Are you saying you agree with him or her?

What if people only imagine they are having a physical experience since all experiences are filtered through our brains?
What if a persons physical body is numb and they cannot feel anything physically?
Are their emotional experiences real and true?
difference
Posts: 177
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1/26/2016 11:56:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:27:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/26/2016 11:13:16 PM, difference wrote:
vi_spex has said that your physical experience is true and that anything else is either your memory or your imagination.

Vi_ spex can speak for themselves if they wish to get involved in this discussion.
What do you say ?
Are you saying you agree with him or her?

I agree with him but you're right I'll speak for myself.

What if people only imagine they are having a physical experience since all experiences are filtered through our brains?

The imagination of something isn't the same as the experience of something. I mean willed or passive imagination, like your thoughts. Ok, I don't like vi_spex's terminology.

What if a persons physical body is numb and they cannot feel anything physically?

Then they don't feel anything physically, that much is true.

Are their emotional experiences real and true?

They're real too. I don't know what it could mean for them to be fake and false.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/27/2016 9:24:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:56:00 PM, difference wrote:
At 1/26/2016 11:27:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:

What if people only imagine they are having a physical experience since all experiences are filtered through our brains?

The imagination of something isn't the same as the experience of something. I mean willed or passive imagination, like your thoughts. Ok, I don't like vi_spex's terminology.

Take a look at this...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Tell me if you think those people experienced what they claim to have experienced or only imagined they experienced those things.

The point is the mind can create illusions of experiences and this is why some people are delusional. They cannot tell the difference between what is imaginary and what is real.

What if a persons physical body is numb and they cannot feel anything physically?

Then they don't feel anything physically, that much is true.

Are their emotional experiences real and true?

They're real too. I don't know what it could mean for them to be fake and false.

As I pointed out above, not everything people experience is real. The mind can cause people to have the illusion of experiences which can cause them to be confused as to what is imaginary and what is real. They can easily mistake imaginary experiences as reality because human imagination is real. It can make illusions and delusions seem very real.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/27/2016 10:59:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

You must also have the information, not having it even if willing/able to accept it won't change the assumption, won't change the truth.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/27/2016 11:07:30 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:59:25 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

You must also have the information, not having it even if willing/able to accept it won't change the assumption, won't change the truth.

Truth ( Reality ) doesn't change regardless of whether people have information and accept it or not. Peoples views about the Truth ( Reality) change. Truth itself remains the same.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/28/2016 12:00:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.

Exactly, so does that make Truth merely a matter of human perception or is human perception of Truth irrelevant to what Truth actually is?
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/28/2016 1:19:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 12:00:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.

Exactly, so does that make Truth merely a matter of human perception or is human perception of Truth irrelevant to what Truth actually is?

I already answered that in my first two posts in this thread.

If you can perceive it you may be able, but not necessarily willing. However, perception isn't required.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/29/2016 12:26:28 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 1:19:04 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/28/2016 12:00:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.

Exactly, so does that make Truth merely a matter of human perception or is human perception of Truth irrelevant to what Truth actually is?

I already answered that in my first two posts in this thread.

If you can perceive it you may be able, but not necessarily willing. However, perception isn't required.

I agree perception is not required since Truth is what it is regardless of people think about it.
However, perception is always required for people to judge things as true, false or neutral.
It is interesting that Truth can be judged in opposite ways by different people. Obviously not all see it in the same light.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/29/2016 2:46:07 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Reality: "The totality of all that exists"

Statement: "The earth is round"

"Truth" is a mere result of an assessment made by a thinking mind. In other words, a description. We take statement and we compare it to reality. If the statement matches reality then the statement is assessed as true. If the statement does not match reality then it is assessed as false.

Without a statement, there is no truth because there is no assessment. Without a thinking mind there is no truth because there is no assessment.

The mysticism of the word truth comes from the fact that thinking minds, by the very nature of what it means to be a thinking mind, are limited to understanding and experiencing reality only through its own perceptions. So it is not reality per se that statements are being compared to, but rather the perception of the thinking mind performing the assessment. Thus, there is (theoretically) a level of "truth" that is as far as we can tell, beyond our capability and will always be.

Theists often try to escape this by defining the mind of a God as something that can escape it, but that doesn't work. You can't solve a problem by defining something as the solution.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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1/29/2016 9:13:25 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 2:46:07 AM, Double_R wrote:
Reality: "The totality of all that exists"

Statement: "The earth is round"

"Truth" is a mere result of an assessment made by a thinking mind. In other words, a description. We take statement and we compare it to reality. If the statement matches reality then the statement is assessed as true. If the statement does not match reality then it is assessed as false.

Without a statement, there is no truth because there is no assessment. Without a thinking mind there is no truth because there is no assessment.

The mysticism of the word truth comes from the fact that thinking minds, by the very nature of what it means to be a thinking mind, are limited to understanding and experiencing reality only through its own perceptions. So it is not reality per se that statements are being compared to, but rather the perception of the thinking mind performing the assessment. Thus, there is (theoretically) a level of "truth" that is as far as we can tell, beyond our capability and will always be.

Theists often try to escape this by defining the mind of a God as something that can escape it, but that doesn't work. You can't solve a problem by defining something as the solution.
Is this true? Or is it the level that's (theoretically) beyond your capability of knowing if it's true? Or is it merely what your'e assessing as true with what you think constitutes a thinking mind? You simply have a logically inept mind, and that's the truth.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/30/2016 12:47:57 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 9:13:25 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 1/29/2016 2:46:07 AM, Double_R wrote:
Reality: "The totality of all that exists"

Statement: "The earth is round"

"Truth" is a mere result of an assessment made by a thinking mind. In other words, a description. We take statement and we compare it to reality. If the statement matches reality then the statement is assessed as true. If the statement does not match reality then it is assessed as false.

Without a statement, there is no truth because there is no assessment. Without a thinking mind there is no truth because there is no assessment.

The mysticism of the word truth comes from the fact that thinking minds, by the very nature of what it means to be a thinking mind, are limited to understanding and experiencing reality only through its own perceptions. So it is not reality per se that statements are being compared to, but rather the perception of the thinking mind performing the assessment. Thus, there is (theoretically) a level of "truth" that is as far as we can tell, beyond our capability and will always be.

Theists often try to escape this by defining the mind of a God as something that can escape it, but that doesn't work. You can't solve a problem by defining something as the solution.
Is this true? Or is it the level that's (theoretically) beyond your capability of knowing if it's true? Or is it merely what your'e assessing as true with what you think constitutes a thinking mind? You simply have a logically inept mind, and that's the truth.

Sorry, I think I missed it. Am I supposed to be... Offended by your insults? Shocked by your childishness? Disappointed that such a brilliant and respected [cough] member of DDO thinks I am logically inept? What?
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,870
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1/30/2016 6:48:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/30/2016 12:47:57 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/29/2016 9:13:25 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 1/29/2016 2:46:07 AM, Double_R wrote:
Reality: "The totality of all that exists"

Statement: "The earth is round"

"Truth" is a mere result of an assessment made by a thinking mind. In other words, a description. We take statement and we compare it to reality. If the statement matches reality then the statement is assessed as true. If the statement does not match reality then it is assessed as false.

Without a statement, there is no truth because there is no assessment. Without a thinking mind there is no truth because there is no assessment.

The mysticism of the word truth comes from the fact that thinking minds, by the very nature of what it means to be a thinking mind, are limited to understanding and experiencing reality only through its own perceptions. So it is not reality per se that statements are being compared to, but rather the perception of the thinking mind performing the assessment. Thus, there is (theoretically) a level of "truth" that is as far as we can tell, beyond our capability and will always be.

Theists often try to escape this by defining the mind of a God as something that can escape it, but that doesn't work. You can't solve a problem by defining something as the solution.
Is this true? Or is it the level that's (theoretically) beyond your capability of knowing if it's true? Or is it merely what your'e assessing as true with what you think constitutes a thinking mind? You simply have a logically inept mind, and that's the truth.

Sorry, I think I missed it. Am I supposed to be... Offended by your insults? Shocked by your childishness? Disappointed that such a brilliant and respected [cough] member of DDO thinks I am logically inept? What?
No, you're suppose to not respond and show you're the better person. Lol , respected member of DDO, if you need validation from a site filled with predictable argumentation , stock arguments, and inconsistency when it comes to logic you must be desperate.
But then again, you probably don't understand how absurd your post is.
"Thinking minds are limited to understanding and experiencing reality....."
"There is a level of truth that is beyond our capability and will always be as far as we can tell...."
"You can't solve a problem by defining something as the solution" bwhahahaha
So do tell respected logically inept member of DDO, exactly how do you know that no one can solve a problem by defining its solution? Because theoretically, this might actually be a way of solving a particular problem you have yet to confront or it may merely be in regards to something that is currently beyond "your" capability. (Where do you get this "we" approach to reasoning?)
Anyone who pretends to speak for a "we" is logically inept.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,034
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1/30/2016 3:36:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
"Truth" is a mere result of an assessment made by a thinking mind. In other words, a description. We take statement and we compare it to reality. If the statement matches reality then the statement is assessed as true. If the statement does not match reality then it is assessed as false.
Without a statement, there is no truth because there is no assessment. Without a thinking mind there is no truth because there is no assessment.


I think that is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it is right. It would imply that if we take the two statements a) 'The world is spherical' and b) 'the word is cuboid' then there is no difference between them until they are compared to reality by a thinking mind.

But when a mind does make such a comparison, it will inevitable find a is true and b is false, so whatever it is that defines the truth of a and the falseness of b must be instrinsic to the statements (or their context) themselves, not to the act of comparison with reality. The reason why a matches reality must pre-exist the act of comparig it with reality. Knowledge of which one is true might require an empirical test, but the essential truth of a and the falseness b of does not require any test. It's the difference between epistemology and ontology.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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1/30/2016 5:10:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:07:37 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Are you expecting someone to get lucky and respond with profound exception?
Expect a boring Christian to rant about Jesus.

John 18:37-38 New International Version (NIV)

37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.

Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

38 "What is truth?" retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, "I find no basis for a charge against him.

Expect an atheist to ramble about falsifiable standards for determining truth. Expect agnostics to be neutral. Expect me to demonstrate the perils of not being wise enough to have a sophisticated perception of what truth could be; logic is close, but not perfect.
Nolite Timere
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/31/2016 1:56:37 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 12:26:28 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/28/2016 1:19:04 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/28/2016 12:00:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.

Exactly, so does that make Truth merely a matter of human perception or is human perception of Truth irrelevant to what Truth actually is?

I already answered that in my first two posts in this thread.

If you can perceive it you may be able, but not necessarily willing. However, perception isn't required.

I agree perception is not required since Truth is what it is regardless of people think about it.
However, perception is always required for people to judge things as true, false or neutral.
It is interesting that Truth can be judged in opposite ways by different people. Obviously not all see it in the same light.

Truth doesn't exist without thought.

Perception is not always required. I could think to myself that I don't like space aliens from the planet Xilath and make that judgement without ever seeing a space alien from the planet Xilath.

I don't really know that I would call it interesting, with the definition of Truth I've given it's expected. And it's the only definition I know of that comes close to this truth you speak of.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/31/2016 11:05:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 1:56:37 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/29/2016 12:26:28 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/28/2016 1:19:04 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/28/2016 12:00:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.

Exactly, so does that make Truth merely a matter of human perception or is human perception of Truth irrelevant to what Truth actually is?

I already answered that in my first two posts in this thread.

If you can perceive it you may be able, but not necessarily willing. However, perception isn't required.

I agree perception is not required since Truth is what it is regardless of people think about it.
However, perception is always required for people to judge things as true, false or neutral.
It is interesting that Truth can be judged in opposite ways by different people. Obviously not all see it in the same light.

Truth doesn't exist without thought.

What makes you believe that?
Truth does not depend on what humans think about it or how they define it. It is what it is regardless of human thought.

Perception is not always required. I could think to myself that I don't like space aliens from the planet Xilath and make that judgement without ever seeing a space alien from the planet Xilath.

Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Heterodox
Posts: 293
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1/31/2016 11:12:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:05:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/31/2016 1:56:37 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/29/2016 12:26:28 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/28/2016 1:19:04 AM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/28/2016 12:00:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:07:40 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:02:53 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:48:17 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:39:39 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Many people talk about truth and what they believe to be true yet often people don't believe each other or agree that the thing they are discussing is indeed 100% true.
What seems to be true to one person can seem to be false to another, so what IS Truth ?

How can you tell it apart from a lie or deception?

Truth is the assumption that all the information you are willing and/or able to accept supports.

What are you willing and able to accept?....Only things that agree with your preconceived ideas and concepts or also things that oppose those ideas and concepts?

General information in reality seems to support anything people want to believe since they simply pick whatever tickles their fancy and fantasies and claim the rest is all speculation or lies.

Well that changes from person to person doesn't it (what they are willing and/or able to accept)? Probably why people have differing thoughts about some thing being true or not.

Exactly, so does that make Truth merely a matter of human perception or is human perception of Truth irrelevant to what Truth actually is?

I already answered that in my first two posts in this thread.

If you can perceive it you may be able, but not necessarily willing. However, perception isn't required.

I agree perception is not required since Truth is what it is regardless of people think about it.
However, perception is always required for people to judge things as true, false or neutral.
It is interesting that Truth can be judged in opposite ways by different people. Obviously not all see it in the same light.

Truth doesn't exist without thought.

What makes you believe that?
Truth does not depend on what humans think about it or how they define it. It is what it is regardless of human thought.
What makes me think that is that I have no information opposing that assumption. And all information supports that assumption. Including, but not limited to, that ideas must by definition be thought.

Perception is not always required. I could think to myself that I don't like space aliens from the planet Xilath and make that judgement without ever seeing a space alien from the planet Xilath.

Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Semantics. Perception is what you can taste, feel, smell, see, or touch.
Skyangel
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1/31/2016 11:16:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 2:46:07 AM, Double_R wrote:
Reality: "The totality of all that exists"

Statement: "The earth is round"

"Truth" is a mere result of an assessment made by a thinking mind. In other words, a description. We take statement and we compare it to reality. If the statement matches reality then the statement is assessed as true. If the statement does not match reality then it is assessed as false.

It seems that you agree with me that TRUTH = REALITY.

Without a statement, there is no truth because there is no assessment. Without a thinking mind there is no truth because there is no assessment.

If TRUTH =REALITY, human assessment of it is irrelevant to what it is.
Reality will always exist regardless of whether humans assess and categorize it or not.

The mysticism of the word truth comes from the fact that thinking minds, by the very nature of what it means to be a thinking mind, are limited to understanding and experiencing reality only through its own perceptions. So it is not reality per se that statements are being compared to, but rather the perception of the thinking mind performing the assessment. Thus, there is (theoretically) a level of "truth" that is as far as we can tell, beyond our capability and will always be.

Why do you believe that?
Are you capable of "thinking outside the box" ?

Theists often try to escape this by defining the mind of a God as something that can escape it, but that doesn't work. You can't solve a problem by defining something as the solution.

Is there a problem regarding Truth or simply a problem with how humans perceive and judge Truth ?
Heterodox
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1/31/2016 11:16:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Semantics. Perception is what you can taste, feel, smell, see, or touch.

On this point I will concede that Perception exists in the mind. However, in doing so that makes reality of the mind as well.
Skyangel
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1/31/2016 11:28:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:12:21 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:05:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/31/2016 1:56:37 AM, Heterodox wrote:

Truth doesn't exist without thought.

What makes you believe that?
Truth does not depend on what humans think about it or how they define it. It is what it is regardless of human thought.
What makes me think that is that I have no information opposing that assumption. And all information supports that assumption. Including, but not limited to, that ideas must by definition be thought.

So your logic is based on nothing but your own assumptions.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
assumption: A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof:

Perception is not always required. I could think to myself that I don't like space aliens from the planet Xilath and make that judgement without ever seeing a space alien from the planet Xilath.

Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Semantics. Perception is what you can taste, feel, smell, see, or touch.

Are you implying that you have no perception ( awareness) of your own imagination?
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
Perception : the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.
Skyangel
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1/31/2016 11:33:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:16:35 PM, Heterodox wrote:
Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Semantics. Perception is what you can taste, feel, smell, see, or touch.

On this point I will concede that Perception exists in the mind. However, in doing so that makes reality of the mind as well.

Of course our minds are a reality and imaginations are a reality but that does not make the things we imagine real. We can imagine flying purple pigs for example but flying purple pigs are not real animals. They are only imaginary ones.
Heterodox
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1/31/2016 11:38:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:33:15 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:16:35 PM, Heterodox wrote:
Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Semantics. Perception is what you can taste, feel, smell, see, or touch.

On this point I will concede that Perception exists in the mind. However, in doing so that makes reality of the mind as well.

Of course our minds are a reality and imaginations are a reality but that does not make the things we imagine real. We can imagine flying purple pigs for example but flying purple pigs are not real animals. They are only imaginary ones.

Of course that's an assumption, but the conversation must start with one. If we agree to that assumption (that our ideas are not reality), then I would point you back to my previous statement that perception is what we can taste, smell, feel, hear or see.
Heterodox
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1/31/2016 11:42:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/31/2016 11:28:29 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:12:21 PM, Heterodox wrote:
At 1/31/2016 11:05:28 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 1/31/2016 1:56:37 AM, Heterodox wrote:

Truth doesn't exist without thought.

What makes you believe that?
Truth does not depend on what humans think about it or how they define it. It is what it is regardless of human thought.
What makes me think that is that I have no information opposing that assumption. And all information supports that assumption. Including, but not limited to, that ideas must by definition be thought.

So your logic is based on nothing but your own assumptions.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
assumption: A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof:

Yes.
Perception is not always required. I could think to myself that I don't like space aliens from the planet Xilath and make that judgement without ever seeing a space alien from the planet Xilath.

Perception of your own imagination is still required. Perception is not just about what you physically see, it is also about what mentally imagine.
Semantics. Perception is what you can taste, feel, smell, see, or touch.

Are you implying that you have no perception ( awareness) of your own imagination?
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
Perception : the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.
Very generalized definition of perception. I will agree that have awareness of my imagination some of the time.