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# multiplying with zero is zero is wrong?

 Posts: 766 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 3:11:38 PMPosted: 2 years agonot to argue. to understand. I once was good at math but it was long ago. so, now let us try to investigate multiplying with zero.first, how we multiply? 2x3=2+2+2=6or 3x5=3+3+3+3+3=15.here, each number represents something e.g: apples.5 times 3 apple is : 3"5=3+3+3+3+3=15. it means: as result we will have 15 apples.now, let us try 10 apples with zero times.10"0= 0 mathematically but why? if we have 10 apples with zero(nothing) times zero (nothing) is added to it, then we remain with our 10 apples, we still have 10 apples, we are with 10 apples not "we are with nothing". while the result is "we are still with 10 apples" why math says it is zero?or try this way: we have nothing (zero) and zero times 10 apple is added to our "nothing" then we again have 10 apples. so, practically 10"0 or 0+10 is both equal to 10.then, why math says it is zero?or do I miss something? do I misunderstood?when I am writing this, there really is 10 pieces of balckberry in front of me. I tried it, I still have 10 blackberries when I add nothing times nothing to my 10 blackberries.when I took the plate there was nothing(zero) in it and I added 1 time 10 blackberry. now, the result is 10 blackberries.but according to math, it must be zero. why?"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
 Posts: 1,124 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 3:35:43 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 4/22/2016 3:11:38 PM, Artur wrote:not to argue. to understand. I once was good at math but it was long ago. so, now let us try to investigate multiplying with zero.first, how we multiply? 2x3=2+2+2=6or 3x5=3+3+3+3+3=15.here, each number represents something e.g: apples.5 times 3 apple is : 3"5=3+3+3+3+3=15. it means: as result we will have 15 apples.now, let us try 10 apples with zero times.10"0= 0 mathematically but why? if we have 10 apples with zero(nothing) times zero (nothing) is added to it, then we remain with our 10 apples, we still have 10 apples, we are with 10 apples not "we are with nothing". while the result is "we are still with 10 apples" why math says it is zero?or try this way: we have nothing (zero) and zero times 10 apple is added to our "nothing" then we again have 10 apples. so, practically 10"0 or 0+10 is both equal to 10.then, why math says it is zero?or do I miss something? do I misunderstood?when I am writing this, there really is 10 pieces of balckberry in front of me. I tried it, I still have 10 blackberries when I add nothing times nothing to my 10 blackberries.when I took the plate there was nothing(zero) in it and I added 1 time 10 blackberry. now, the result is 10 blackberries.but according to math, it must be zero. why?did you sit up all night to think of this one?10 times nothing is nothing hence nothing times 10 equals nothing in such a equation it works both ways, or it's not true. you are trying to say one time 10 is the same as zero times 10. different values times the same values do not equal the same value.
 Posts: 1,124 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 3:46:25 PMPosted: 2 years agoThe blackberries aren"t the measure of units the number 10 is. 10 units of measure X 0 units of measure = 0But ten berries are not going to disappear do to a math equation, the ten berries are the result not the problem. Therefore, your problem is wrong. To equal ten berries is all you have, if you have ten berries. Any equation that equals ten berries is the correct way to come to the conclusion of ten berries.
 Posts: 289 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 4:31:03 PMPosted: 2 years agowhen you calculate 3x5 you can think of this as follows: I have 5 bundles of 3 apples. In total I have 15 apples.what if I do 3x0? I have 0 bundles of 3 apples. So in total I have 0 apples.so lets say you have 1 bundle of 10 blackberries in front of you. 1x10what happens if you multiply your blackberries with 0: you have 0 bundles of 10 blackberries. So you do not have any more blackberries.You don't have the power to multiply your bundle of blackberries in real life. So here multiplicaton is simply saying how much of something would you have if you had X amount of boudles with a size of Y.
 Posts: 1,124 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 4:36:09 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 4/22/2016 4:31:03 PM, A1tre wrote:when you calculate 3x5 you can think of this as follows: I have 5 bundles of 3 apples. In total I have 15 apples.what if I do 3x0? I have 0 bundles of 3 apples. So in total I have 0 apples.so lets say you have 1 bundle of 10 blackberries in front of you. 1x10what happens if you multiply your blackberries with 0: you have 0 bundles of 10 blackberries. So you do not have any more blackberries.You don't have the power to multiply your bundle of blackberries in real life. So here multiplicaton is simply saying how much of something would you have if you had X amount of boudles with a size of Y.your explanation is much better
 Posts: 766 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 4:40:21 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 4/22/2016 4:31:03 PM, A1tre wrote:when you calculate 3x5 you can think of this as follows: I have 5 bundles of 3 apples. In total I have 15 apples.what if I do 3x0? I have 0 bundles of 3 apples. So in total I have 0 apples.so lets say you have 1 bundle of 10 blackberries in front of you. 1x10what happens if you multiply your blackberries with 0: you have 0 bundles of 10 blackberries. So you do not have any more blackberries.You don't have the power to multiply your bundle of blackberries in real life. So here multiplicaton is simply saying how much of something would you have if you had X amount of boudles with a size of Y.ok, thank you. I understood. good example."I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
 Posts: 2,762 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/22/2016 5:34:54 PMPosted: 2 years agoSince this is the philosophy forum, I would say that 10*0 is 0 simply because real number arithmetic is defined that way. As a mathematical formalist, I don't think mathematical rules have any inherent 'meaning' to them.It just so happens that the system works well with apples and blackberries (and A1tre did a great job of explaining it using this example). This is what makes a mathematical system useful. I could define a system where 0 * 10 = 1, 2 * 10 = 21 and so on; it just happens that such a system would be completely useless.I think it is well established that the only reason aliens come to earth is to slice up cows and examine inside peoples' bottoms. Unless you are a cow or suffer haemerrhoids I don't think there is anything to worry about from aliens. - keithprosser Don't be a stat cynic: http://www.debate.org... Response to conservative views on deforestation: http://www.debate.org... Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
 Posts: 822 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/24/2016 6:25:37 AMPosted: 2 years ago0 is simply defined to be the additive identity of the real numbers. In other words, it is defined to be a number such that x + 0 = x for any real x. So 10 * 0 = 10 * (0 + 0) = 10 * 0 + 10 * 0 ("*" is simply defined to be a distributive operation). 10 * 0 = 10 * 0 + 10 * 0 so then 0 = 10 * 0 by subtracting 10 * 0 from both sides.Science in a nutshell: "Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are." "All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional." "We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!" "Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
 Posts: 10,079 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 4/25/2016 12:46:14 AMPosted: 2 years agoten nothings equal nothing DUHBeware of the people who are in your circle but are not in your corner. And with the stroke of a pen people 18 to 21 who own a gun became criminals and public enemy #1 having committed no crime and having said nothing. Just like the Jews in Germany during WW2. Must be a weird feeling. When I hear people crying and whining about their first world problems I think about the universe with everything in it and people in wheelchairs and all of their problems go away.
 Posts: 218 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 5/24/2016 2:12:05 AMPosted: 2 years agoYou assume that it has to be (10*0)Why not switch the factors around so we get:(0*10)So we would get0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0=0=Chief Defenestrator= #ImperiumAmerica #CivicNationalism This user is an Angel and will answer any DDO-related questions to the best of their ability. PM for help, or post in the Welcome Thread. Before you do anything: http://www.debate.org... Welcome Thread: http://www.debate.org... New Members Read Me: http://www.debate.org... #LythLivesMatter Argument Bingo http://imgur.com...