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multiplying with zero is zero is wrong?

Artur
Posts: 725
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4/22/2016 3:11:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
not to argue. to understand. I once was good at math but it was long ago. so, now let us try to investigate multiplying with zero.

first, how we multiply? 2x3=2+2+2=6

or 3x5=3+3+3+3+3=15.
here, each number represents something e.g: apples.
5 times 3 apple is : 3"5=3+3+3+3+3=15. it means: as result we will have 15 apples.

now, let us try 10 apples with zero times.

10"0= 0 mathematically but why? if we have 10 apples with zero(nothing) times zero (nothing) is added to it, then we remain with our 10 apples, we still have 10 apples, we are with 10 apples not "we are with nothing". while the result is "we are still with 10 apples" why math says it is zero?

or try this way: we have nothing (zero) and zero times 10 apple is added to our "nothing" then we again have 10 apples. so, practically 10"0 or 0+10 is both equal to 10.

then, why math says it is zero?

or do I miss something? do I misunderstood?
when I am writing this, there really is 10 pieces of balckberry in front of me. I tried it, I still have 10 blackberries when I add nothing times nothing to my 10 blackberries.

when I took the plate there was nothing(zero) in it and I added 1 time 10 blackberry. now, the result is 10 blackberries.

but according to math, it must be zero. why?
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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4/22/2016 3:35:43 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 3:11:38 PM, Artur wrote:
not to argue. to understand. I once was good at math but it was long ago. so, now let us try to investigate multiplying with zero.

first, how we multiply? 2x3=2+2+2=6

or 3x5=3+3+3+3+3=15.
here, each number represents something e.g: apples.
5 times 3 apple is : 3"5=3+3+3+3+3=15. it means: as result we will have 15 apples.

now, let us try 10 apples with zero times.

10"0= 0 mathematically but why? if we have 10 apples with zero(nothing) times zero (nothing) is added to it, then we remain with our 10 apples, we still have 10 apples, we are with 10 apples not "we are with nothing". while the result is "we are still with 10 apples" why math says it is zero?

or try this way: we have nothing (zero) and zero times 10 apple is added to our "nothing" then we again have 10 apples. so, practically 10"0 or 0+10 is both equal to 10.

then, why math says it is zero?

or do I miss something? do I misunderstood?
when I am writing this, there really is 10 pieces of balckberry in front of me. I tried it, I still have 10 blackberries when I add nothing times nothing to my 10 blackberries.

when I took the plate there was nothing(zero) in it and I added 1 time 10 blackberry. now, the result is 10 blackberries.

but according to math, it must be zero. why?

did you sit up all night to think of this one?

10 times nothing is nothing hence nothing times 10 equals nothing in such a equation it works both ways, or it's not true. you are trying to say one time 10 is the same as zero times 10. different values times the same values do not equal the same value.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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4/22/2016 3:46:25 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
The blackberries aren"t the measure of units the number 10 is. 10 units of measure X 0 units of measure = 0
But ten berries are not going to disappear do to a math equation, the ten berries are the result not the problem. Therefore, your problem is wrong. To equal ten berries is all you have, if you have ten berries. Any equation that equals ten berries is the correct way to come to the conclusion of ten berries.
A1tre
Posts: 223
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4/22/2016 4:31:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
when you calculate 3x5 you can think of this as follows: I have 5 bundles of 3 apples. In total I have 15 apples.

what if I do 3x0? I have 0 bundles of 3 apples. So in total I have 0 apples.

so lets say you have 1 bundle of 10 blackberries in front of you. 1x10
what happens if you multiply your blackberries with 0: you have 0 bundles of 10 blackberries. So you do not have any more blackberries.

You don't have the power to multiply your bundle of blackberries in real life. So here multiplicaton is simply saying how much of something would you have if you had X amount of boudles with a size of Y.
DPMartin
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4/22/2016 4:36:09 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:31:03 PM, A1tre wrote:
when you calculate 3x5 you can think of this as follows: I have 5 bundles of 3 apples. In total I have 15 apples.

what if I do 3x0? I have 0 bundles of 3 apples. So in total I have 0 apples.

so lets say you have 1 bundle of 10 blackberries in front of you. 1x10
what happens if you multiply your blackberries with 0: you have 0 bundles of 10 blackberries. So you do not have any more blackberries.

You don't have the power to multiply your bundle of blackberries in real life. So here multiplicaton is simply saying how much of something would you have if you had X amount of boudles with a size of Y.

your explanation is much better
Artur
Posts: 725
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4/22/2016 4:40:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/22/2016 4:31:03 PM, A1tre wrote:
when you calculate 3x5 you can think of this as follows: I have 5 bundles of 3 apples. In total I have 15 apples.

what if I do 3x0? I have 0 bundles of 3 apples. So in total I have 0 apples.

so lets say you have 1 bundle of 10 blackberries in front of you. 1x10
what happens if you multiply your blackberries with 0: you have 0 bundles of 10 blackberries. So you do not have any more blackberries.

You don't have the power to multiply your bundle of blackberries in real life. So here multiplicaton is simply saying how much of something would you have if you had X amount of boudles with a size of Y.
ok, thank you. I understood. good example.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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4/22/2016 5:34:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Since this is the philosophy forum, I would say that 10*0 is 0 simply because real number arithmetic is defined that way. As a mathematical formalist, I don't think mathematical rules have any inherent 'meaning' to them.

It just so happens that the system works well with apples and blackberries (and A1tre did a great job of explaining it using this example). This is what makes a mathematical system useful. I could define a system where 0 * 10 = 1, 2 * 10 = 21 and so on; it just happens that such a system would be completely useless.
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user13579
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4/24/2016 6:25:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
0 is simply defined to be the additive identity of the real numbers. In other words, it is defined to be a number such that x + 0 = x for any real x. So 10 * 0 = 10 * (0 + 0) = 10 * 0 + 10 * 0 ("*" is simply defined to be a distributive operation). 10 * 0 = 10 * 0 + 10 * 0 so then 0 = 10 * 0 by subtracting 10 * 0 from both sides.
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sadolite
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4/25/2016 12:46:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
ten nothings equal nothing DUH
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Forthelulz
Posts: 209
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5/24/2016 2:12:05 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
You assume that it has to be (10*0)
Why not switch the factors around so we get:
(0*10)
So we would get
0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0+0=0
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