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What's wrong with PASCAL's wager?

user13579
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5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.
Jesus loves you.

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user13579
Posts: 822
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5/3/2016 1:09:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Yeah, I'm an idiot for destroying Pascal's Wager in one line, something nobody else could do for hundreds of years.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Chaosism
Posts: 2,670
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5/3/2016 1:20:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 10:58:04 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
Go or whatever.

Personally, I cannot simply choose my beliefs, so despite the supposed consequences (which are unfounded), I could not believe without valid reason. Pascal's Wager is not an argument for the conclusion that God exists but rather an argument to provide motivation to believe it, anyway, regardless of the truth of the matter based solely on fear of the consequences. Pascal's Wager is largely ineffectual.
Dragon_of_Christ
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5/3/2016 1:22:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:09:31 PM, user13579 wrote:
Yeah, I'm an idiot for destroying Pascal's Wager in one line, something nobody else could do for hundreds of years.

There is not as much evidense.
Jesus loves you.

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user13579
Posts: 822
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5/3/2016 1:22:50 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.

You know who's the real idiot? Pascal. He was an idiot. And anybody who uses his "argument" is an idiot. What if you're Christian but you're wrong, and anti-god is the real god? Then you're going to hell. So you better "convert" to atheism so anti-god won't send you to hell. See, I completely turned Pascal's Wager around.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/3/2016 1:24:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:22:50 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.

You know who's the real idiot? Pascal. He was an idiot. And anybody who uses his "argument" is an idiot. What if you're Christian but you're wrong, and anti-god is the real god? Then you're going to hell. So you better "convert" to atheism so anti-god won't send you to hell. See, I completely turned Pascal's Wager around.

What if i'm pagan?
Jesus loves you.

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Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/3/2016 1:28:41 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:24:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:22:50 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.

You know who's the real idiot? Pascal. He was an idiot. And anybody who uses his "argument" is an idiot. What if you're Christian but you're wrong, and anti-god is the real god? Then you're going to hell. So you better "convert" to atheism so anti-god won't send you to hell. See, I completely turned Pascal's Wager around.

What if i'm pagan?

Then you're still at risk. There could be an anti-god of paganism who will send you to pagan hell but who sends unbelievers in paganism to pagan heaven. That anti-god is just as likely because there's just as much evidence as your pagan gods (0 evidence).
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/3/2016 1:31:54 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:28:41 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:24:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:22:50 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.

You know who's the real idiot? Pascal. He was an idiot. And anybody who uses his "argument" is an idiot. What if you're Christian but you're wrong, and anti-god is the real god? Then you're going to hell. So you better "convert" to atheism so anti-god won't send you to hell. See, I completely turned Pascal's Wager around.

What if i'm pagan?

Then you're still at risk. There could be an anti-god of paganism who will send you to pagan hell but who sends unbelievers in paganism to pagan heaven. That anti-god is just as likely because there's just as much evidence as your pagan gods (0 evidence).

What evidense does an anti-god have?
Jesus loves you.

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Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/3/2016 1:34:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:31:54 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:28:41 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:24:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:22:50 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.

You know who's the real idiot? Pascal. He was an idiot. And anybody who uses his "argument" is an idiot. What if you're Christian but you're wrong, and anti-god is the real god? Then you're going to hell. So you better "convert" to atheism so anti-god won't send you to hell. See, I completely turned Pascal's Wager around.

What if i'm pagan?

Then you're still at risk. There could be an anti-god of paganism who will send you to pagan hell but who sends unbelievers in paganism to pagan heaven. That anti-god is just as likely because there's just as much evidence as your pagan gods (0 evidence).

What evidense does an anti-god have?

0, just like any other god. There is no evidence for God. The anti-god of Christianity is just as likely as God.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/3/2016 1:39:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:34:21 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:31:54 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:28:41 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:24:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:22:50 PM, user13579 wrote:
At 5/3/2016 12:53:59 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

You are an idiot.

You know who's the real idiot? Pascal. He was an idiot. And anybody who uses his "argument" is an idiot. What if you're Christian but you're wrong, and anti-god is the real god? Then you're going to hell. So you better "convert" to atheism so anti-god won't send you to hell. See, I completely turned Pascal's Wager around.

What if i'm pagan?

Then you're still at risk. There could be an anti-god of paganism who will send you to pagan hell but who sends unbelievers in paganism to pagan heaven. That anti-god is just as likely because there's just as much evidence as your pagan gods (0 evidence).

What evidense does an anti-god have?

0, just like any other god. There is no evidence for God. The anti-god of Christianity is just as likely as God.

An anti-god is a made up concept.

Christianity has existed for ages.
Jesus loves you.

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SNP1
Posts: 2,404
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5/3/2016 3:12:38 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I will give just two reasons to reject Pascal's Wager, though there are a lot more.

Belief is not a conscious choice

This is one of the main arguments against it.
If I held a gun to your head and said that if you start believing there is an elephant riding a unicycle on your head that you will live, you would not simply be able to choose to believe.

Expanded Pascal's Wager.

There either is a god or is not a god.
There are also many possible options for how the afterlife works.

IF GOD EXISTS
Common View:
God exists and you need to believe in God in order to go to heaven.
HOWEVER, believe in the wrong God and you will not go into heaven.

Theist: 0.01 (This is generous as there are actually an infinite amount of possible god's, so this should be near zero).
Atheist: 0

Reverse/"Evil God" View
God exists but if you believe in him he will send you to Hell. You must be an atheist to go to heaven.
Theist: 0
Atheist: 1


Good Deeds View
God exists but does not care about your belief. You do good deeds, you go to heaven. You do bad deeds, you go to hell.
Theists: .5
Atheists: .5


Evil Deeds View
God exists but does not care about your belief. You do evil deeds, you go to heaven, you do good deeds you go to hell.
Theists: .5
Atheists: .5


Universal Afterlife
God exists but lets everyone into heaven, there is no hell.
Theists: 1
Atheists: 1


No Afterlife
There is a god but has designated no afterlife for anyone.
Theists: 0
Atheists: 0


Now, just with the points above, if there IS a god (not yet calculating if there isn't one):
Theists Total: 2.01
Atheists Total: 3


So, even if there is a god the atheists still have the advantage.
I don't even have to go into the "if there is no god" aspect or the "theists wasted time" aspect to actual points, when you extend the argument to be more fitting of the possibilities, to better fit the atheist.

You also can't say "well, the evidence" because Pascal's Wager is developed to work in spite of or despite the evidence.
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user13579
Posts: 822
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5/3/2016 3:24:03 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 3:12:38 PM, SNP1 wrote:
I will give just two reasons to reject Pascal's Wager, though there are a lot more.

Belief is not a conscious choice

This is one of the main arguments against it.
If I held a gun to your head and said that if you start believing there is an elephant riding a unicycle on your head that you will live, you would not simply be able to choose to believe.

Expanded Pascal's Wager.

There either is a god or is not a god.
There are also many possible options for how the afterlife works.

IF GOD EXISTS
Common View:
God exists and you need to believe in God in order to go to heaven.
HOWEVER, believe in the wrong God and you will not go into heaven.

Theist: 0.01 (This is generous as there are actually an infinite amount of possible god's, so this should be near zero).
Atheist: 0

Reverse/"Evil God" View
God exists but if you believe in him he will send you to Hell. You must be an atheist to go to heaven.
Theist: 0
Atheist: 1


Good Deeds View
God exists but does not care about your belief. You do good deeds, you go to heaven. You do bad deeds, you go to hell.
Theists: .5
Atheists: .5


Evil Deeds View
God exists but does not care about your belief. You do evil deeds, you go to heaven, you do good deeds you go to hell.
Theists: .5
Atheists: .5


Universal Afterlife
God exists but lets everyone into heaven, there is no hell.
Theists: 1
Atheists: 1


No Afterlife
There is a god but has designated no afterlife for anyone.
Theists: 0
Atheists: 0


Now, just with the points above, if there IS a god (not yet calculating if there isn't one):
Theists Total: 2.01
Atheists Total: 3


So, even if there is a god the atheists still have the advantage.
I don't even have to go into the "if there is no god" aspect or the "theists wasted time" aspect to actual points, when you extend the argument to be more fitting of the possibilities, to better fit the atheist.

You also can't say "well, the evidence" because Pascal's Wager is developed to work in spite of or despite the evidence.

Why is the reverse god "evil"? It's no more evil than sending atheists to hell for not believing. Actually, the Christian god sounds like an evil god ("worship me or else!"). Anti-god is a good god that punishes greedy hypocrites.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
SNP1
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5/3/2016 3:25:26 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 3:24:03 PM, user13579 wrote:
Why is the reverse god "evil"? It's no more evil than sending atheists to hell for not believing. Actually, the Christian god sounds like an evil god ("worship me or else!"). Anti-god is a good god that punishes greedy hypocrites.

It is just how he is usually dubbed in philosophical discussion. I just used more common terminology.
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skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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5/4/2016 1:32:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 3:12:38 PM, SNP1 wrote:
I will give just two reasons to reject Pascal's Wager, though there are a lot more.

Belief is not a conscious choice

This is one of the main arguments against it.
If I held a gun to your head and said that if you start believing there is an elephant riding a unicycle on your head that you will live, you would not simply be able to choose to believe.

Expanded Pascal's Wager.

There either is a god or is not a god.
There are also many possible options for how the afterlife works.

IF GOD EXISTS
Common View:
God exists and you need to believe in God in order to go to heaven.
HOWEVER, believe in the wrong God and you will not go into heaven.

Theist: 0.01 (This is generous as there are actually an infinite amount of possible god's, so this should be near zero).
Atheist: 0
This is a fallacy of equivocation. Pascals wager is based on the belief in the Christian God only, Not the result of someone believing in any other possible God.
This is nothing but a false premise and the math you've applied to the false premise. Basically the value for a theist in this scenario would be 1
Reverse/"Evil God" View
God exists but if you believe in him he will send you to Hell. You must be an atheist to go to heaven.
Theist: 0
Atheist: 1

Here you're simply assuming that an atheist not having a belief isn't in itself a belief. I.e. a belief that an evil God doesn't exist. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief that the evil God doesn't exist. Unless you're now claiming that atheism is a belief that no gods exist instead of a lack of belief in any gods existing. You simply want to arbitrarily use lack of belief when it suits your reasoning I guess.
Good Deeds View
God exists but does not care about your belief. You do good deeds, you go to heaven. You do bad deeds, you go to hell.
Theists: .5
Atheists: .5


Evil Deeds View
God exists but does not care about your belief. You do evil deeds, you go to heaven, you do good deeds you go to hell.
Theists: .5
Atheists: .5


Universal Afterlife
God exists but lets everyone into heaven, there is no hell.
Theists: 1
Atheists: 1


No Afterlife
There is a god but has designated no afterlife for anyone.
Theists: 0
Atheists: 0


Now, just with the points above, if there IS a god (not yet calculating if there isn't one):
Theists Total: 2.01
Atheists Total: 3


So, even if there is a god the atheists still have the advantage.
I don't even have to go into the "if there is no god" aspect or the "theists wasted time" aspect to actual points, when you extend the argument to be more fitting of the possibilities, to better fit the atheist.
Your mathematical results are based on a false premise.....
You also can't say "well, the evidence" because Pascal's Wager is developed to work in spite of or despite the evidence.
A1tre
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5/5/2016 12:34:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 1:39:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:

An anti-god is a made up concept.

Christianity has existed for ages.

you are saying that a concept that has existed for ages can not have been made up. I'm sure you could come up with more then enough examples that disprove this by yourself. Your reasoning here is fallacious.
A1tre
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5/5/2016 1:01:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/4/2016 1:32:13 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:

Common View:
God exists and you need to believe in God in order to go to heaven.
HOWEVER, believe in the wrong God and you will not go into heaven.

Theist: 0.01 (This is generous as there are actually an infinite amount of possible god's, so this should be near zero).
Atheist: 0
This is a fallacy of equivocation. Pascals wager is based on the belief in the Christian God only, Not the result of someone believing in any other possible God.
This is nothing but a false premise and the math you've applied to the false premise. Basically the value for a theist in this scenario would be 1

Pascals wager is not based on the belief in only the Christian God, that is actually what it is trying to argue for. The fallacy of circular reasoning is when you base an argument on an assumption and then try to prove that same assumption with the argument. Pascal did not commit this fallacy, but according to your understanding he did.

The wager is based on probabilities. Pascal says no matter how small the probability is of God existing, the outcome for those who believe in God is still better than the atheist alternative of 0. But there are many versions of Christianity, and there are also other religions than Christianity. So in effect you have to choose 1 religion from all the options you have. Your chance of succes is 1/x (x=amount of religions). theoretically x is infinite, but you can assume it is 100 and end up with the probability of 0.01.

Reverse/"Evil God" View
God exists but if you believe in him he will send you to Hell. You must be an atheist to go to heaven.
Theist: 0
Atheist: 1

Here you're simply assuming that an atheist not having a belief isn't in itself a belief. I.e. a belief that an evil God doesn't exist. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief that the evil God doesn't exist. Unless you're now claiming that atheism is a belief that no gods exist instead of a lack of belief in any gods existing. You simply want to arbitrarily use lack of belief when it suits your reasoning I guess.

This is really not that complicated.

If you believe in God -> hell
If you don't believe in God -> heaven

Atheist A1 has a lack of belief in God, and goes to heaven.
Atheist A2 has a belief in a lack of God (i.e. non-existence), and goes to heaven.

In both cases the Atheists avoid hell and go to heaven.
A1tre
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5/5/2016 1:09:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

Would you agree with me if I made the following statement:

"For every concept that rewards something, an opposing concept can be thought of that punishes the same thing."
Dragon_of_Christ
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5/5/2016 1:57:18 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:34:49 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:39:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:

An anti-god is a made up concept.

Christianity has existed for ages.

you are saying that a concept that has existed for ages can not have been made up. I'm sure you could come up with more then enough examples that disprove this by yourself. Your reasoning here is fallacious.

Judaism has existed longer than anti god philosophies.

Therefore it is far more likely to be true than the anti god concept.
Jesus loves you.

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SNP1
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5/5/2016 3:55:09 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 1:57:18 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:34:49 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:39:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:

An anti-god is a made up concept.

Christianity has existed for ages.

you are saying that a concept that has existed for ages can not have been made up. I'm sure you could come up with more then enough examples that disprove this by yourself. Your reasoning here is fallacious.

Judaism has existed longer than anti god philosophies.

Therefore it is far more likely to be true than the anti god concept.

And Hinduism has been around longer than Judaism, so why aren't you a Hindu?
Probably because you already know that there is no logic in that argument.

Geocentrism is an idea older than Heliocentrism, and there are still Geocentrists today, so Geocentrism must be true!
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A1tre
Posts: 223
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5/5/2016 6:42:44 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 1:57:18 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:34:49 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:39:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:

An anti-god is a made up concept.

Christianity has existed for ages.

you are saying that a concept that has existed for ages can not have been made up. I'm sure you could come up with more then enough examples that disprove this by yourself. Your reasoning here is fallacious.

Judaism has existed longer than anti god philosophies.

Therefore it is far more likely to be true than the anti god concept.

SNP1 makes a good point.

I also want to add that the first human beings didn't believe in Gods. Hence they were Atheists. By your logic because Aheism is the longest lasting position on this matter, it is the most likely to be true.
keithprosser
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5/5/2016 7:02:29 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
My guess would be that it didn't take long for the first humans to start believing in gods. As soon as human thinking reached the level of being able to ask 'why' about the world humans would either have to be satifisfied with having no answer or extrapolating from their limited experience and invent a conscious agency.

God has his origins in the human need to understand, because understanding is the means of control, and it is that which enabled our species to thrive.
skipsaweirdo
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5/5/2016 9:04:32 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 1:01:04 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/4/2016 1:32:13 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:

Common View:
God exists and you need to believe in God in order to go to heaven.
HOWEVER, believe in the wrong God and you will not go into heaven.

Theist: 0.01 (This is generous as there are actually an infinite amount of possible god's, so this should be near zero).
Atheist: 0
This is a fallacy of equivocation. Pascals wager is based on the belief in the Christian God only, Not the result of someone believing in any other possible God.
This is nothing but a false premise and the math you've applied to the false premise. Basically the value for a theist in this scenario would be 1

Pascals wager is not based on the belief in only the Christian God, that is actually what it is trying to argue for. The fallacy of circular reasoning is when you base an argument on an assumption and then try to prove that same assumption with the argument. Pascal did not commit this fallacy, but according to your understanding he did.
No, Pascal wagers is about Christianity, by definition it isn't whether Christianity is the correct religion. That is a misrepresentation wrong definition or you might say straw man or the equivocation because they're defining it different after saying they're mathematically representing it . Pascal is simply about belief in Christian God, not how many different beliefs they have, not how many different interpretations, the wager is simply belief there is a god, not believe which idea is correct or which god is correct. He simply didn't represent the wager with a sound mathematical model. And atheism is supposedly lack of belief, Pascal wager is about belief.....so anyone can try and wrap up the issue however they want, it's a gross misinterpretation to say it's a choice mathematically between 10000, different gods or different idea about one God. You can believe in the Christian God and think Jesus wasn't resurrected, or he was and he came back, or he was an arc angel that was replaced on the cross before death, its irrelevant to what Pascal wager addressed.
The wager is based on probabilities. Pascal says no matter how small the probability is of God existing, the outcome for those who believe in God is still better than the atheist alternative of 0. But there are many versions of Christianity, and there are also other religions than Christianity. So in effect you have to choose 1 religion from all the options you have. Your chance of succes is 1/x (x=amount of religions). theoretically x is infinite, but you can assume it is 100 and end up with the probability of 0.01.

Reverse/"Evil God" View
God exists but if you believe in him he will send you to Hell. You must be an atheist to go to heaven.
Theist: 0
Atheist: 1

Here you're simply assuming that an atheist not having a belief isn't in itself a belief. I.e. a belief that an evil God doesn't exist. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief that the evil God doesn't exist. Unless you're now claiming that atheism is a belief that no gods exist instead of a lack of belief in any gods existing. You simply want to arbitrarily use lack of belief when it suits your reasoning I guess.

This is really not that complicated.

If you believe in God -> hell
If you don't believe in God -> heaven

Atheist A1 has a lack of belief in God, and goes to heaven.
Atheist A2 has a belief in a lack of God (i.e. non-existence), and goes to heaven.

In both cases the Atheists avoid hell and go to heaven.
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/5/2016 9:10:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 1:09:14 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/3/2016 11:44:12 AM, user13579 wrote:
Anti-god sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven. There is as much evidence for anti-god as the Christian god.

Would you agree with me if I made the following statement:

"For every concept that rewards something, an opposing concept can be thought of that punishes the same thing."

Of course. That's how you can completely destroy Pascal's Wager.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
user13579
Posts: 822
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5/5/2016 9:17:49 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 9:04:32 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
No, Pascal wagers is about Christianity, by definition it isn't whether Christianity is the correct religion. That is a misrepresentation wrong definition or you might say straw man or the equivocation because they're defining it different after saying they're mathematically representing it . Pascal is simply about belief in Christian God, not how many different beliefs they have, not how many different interpretations, the wager is simply belief there is a god, not believe which idea is correct or which god is correct. He simply didn't represent the wager with a sound mathematical model. And atheism is supposedly lack of belief, Pascal wager is about belief.....so anyone can try and wrap up the issue however they want, it's a gross misinterpretation to say it's a choice mathematically between 10000, different gods or different idea about one God. You can believe in the Christian God and think Jesus wasn't resurrected, or he was and he came back, or he was an arc angel that was replaced on the cross before death, its irrelevant to what Pascal wager addressed.

Fine. Then we can make a new wager, Atheist's Anti-Wager.
Science in a nutshell:
"Facts are neither true nor false. They simply are."
"All scientific knowledge is provisional. Even facts are provisional."
"We can be absolutely certain that we have a moon, we can be absolutely certain that water is made out of H2O, and we can be absolutely certain that the Earth is a sphere!"
"Scientific knowledge is a body of statements of varying degrees of certainty -- some most unsure, some nearly sure, none absolutely certain."
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/5/2016 9:49:05 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 6:42:44 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/5/2016 1:57:18 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:34:49 AM, A1tre wrote:
At 5/3/2016 1:39:31 PM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:

An anti-god is a made up concept.

Christianity has existed for ages.

you are saying that a concept that has existed for ages can not have been made up. I'm sure you could come up with more then enough examples that disprove this by yourself. Your reasoning here is fallacious.

Judaism has existed longer than anti god philosophies.

Therefore it is far more likely to be true than the anti god concept.

SNP1 makes a good point.

I also want to add that the first human beings didn't believe in Gods. Hence they were Atheists. By your logic because Aheism is the longest lasting position on this matter, it is the most likely to be true.

Can you prove it?
Jesus loves you.

////////////

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Stupid atheist remarks #: 6
janesix
Posts: 3,467
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5/6/2016 8:14:12 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/3/2016 10:58:04 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
Go or whatever.

God would know who truly believed.
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/6/2016 8:23:18 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/6/2016 8:14:12 PM, janesix wrote:
At 5/3/2016 10:58:04 AM, Dragon_of_Christ wrote:
Go or whatever.

God would know who truly believed.

This matters why?
Jesus loves you.

////////////

-Funny Links-
http://tinyurl.com...
http://tinyurl.com...

Stupid atheist remarks #: 6