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Define good

ken1122
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5/28/2016 7:20:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Good is a subjective term people use to describe something they find favorable.

Ken
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,092
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5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
ken1122
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5/29/2016 2:17:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 9:01:28 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Good is an objective term referring to something life enhancing.

But what enhances one life will often destroy another. How can something be objectively good and objectively bad at the same time?

Ken
Cryo
Posts: 202
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5/30/2016 2:45:35 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 9:01:28 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Good is an objective term referring to something life enhancing.

I think there are many things that can be objectively life enhancing, but to call that enhancement "good" can vary for a lot of reasons and is dependent on the person being enhanced, how they're being enhanced, why, etc.

How can "good" be an objective term when everyone defines it differently and applies it to different things? That's like saying "loud" is an objective term.
Cryo
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5/30/2016 5:33:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 4:55:20 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Is evil a noun or an adjective?

Well, it can be both.
ken1122
Posts: 471
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5/30/2016 6:26:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 5:33:32 AM, Cryo wrote:
At 5/30/2016 4:55:20 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Is evil a noun or an adjective?

Well, it can be both.

Evil is an adjective; it is no more a noun than funny, boring, beautiful, or ugly. Those terms describe nouns, they don't exist by themselves.

Ken
ken1122
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5/30/2016 6:40:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 6:32:57 AM, keithprosser wrote:
So evil does not exist? That sounds ok, but 'So ugly does not exist' doesn't sound ok.

Descriptive terms like evil or ugly don't exist by themselves, they only exist in the context of what their description is applied to.

Ken
Cryo
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5/30/2016 7:49:56 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 6:26:00 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 5:33:32 AM, Cryo wrote:
At 5/30/2016 4:55:20 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Is evil a noun or an adjective?

Well, it can be both.

Evil is an adjective; it is no more a noun than funny, boring, beautiful, or ugly. Those terms describe nouns, they don't exist by themselves.

Ken

Well I guess it depends on how you want to define noun. If you consider ideas nouns, then "evil" is a noun. But if not then no, evil wouldn't be a noun.
simplelife
Posts: 134
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5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.
simplelife
Posts: 134
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5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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5/30/2016 4:23:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

One must combine "is it beneficial" when determining if something is good. But even with that said many on this site would say killing entire demographics of people who would disagree with their views would be beneficial. It is not possible "anymore" to determine what is good. Especially in the academic world. Everything and everyone is offensive.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Intpfox
Posts: 6
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5/30/2016 7:25:20 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.

i understand that's your opinion, but i disagree with goodness, beauty, and truth being interchangeable. i'm sure in some cases they are interchangeable, but not all, as i think they would need to be exactly the same to be interchangeable in all cases; to mean the same thing in all cases.
"Even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." - Hypatia
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,092
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5/31/2016 12:54:26 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 7:25:20 PM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.

i understand that's your opinion, but i disagree with goodness, beauty, and truth being interchangeable. i'm sure in some cases they are interchangeable, but not all, as i think they would need to be exactly the same to be interchangeable in all cases; to mean the same thing in all cases.

Of course they're not all exactly the same in all cases. It's much like looking at the same object from different angles.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,092
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5/31/2016 1:02:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 7:25:20 PM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.

i understand that's your opinion, but i disagree with goodness, beauty, and truth being interchangeable. i'm sure in some cases they are interchangeable, but not all, as i think they would need to be exactly the same to be interchangeable in all cases; to mean the same thing in all cases.

Let me elaborate a bit...

To be good is to fulfill the ends of that thing. A good knife is one which cuts well. A good man is one who uses reason accurately and uses things appropriately. He uses things in order to further fulfill himself and others.

Beauty is a quality of how close something is to its true form. Something which expresses a form very well and accurately is "beautiful." Something that shows us, say the form of suffering, can be beautiful.

I think one can argue that existence is "good." Something that exists is infinitely closer to it's truest form than something which doesn't exist. So a man who is alcoholic and beats his wife, still exists, and so is closer to being the highest fulfillment of a man than he would be if he didn't exist. Of course, he's obviously alcoholic and isn't using alcohol to improve himself... and he's beating his wife, which is obviously an abuse of her, as well as devastating to his relationship with her, indirectly harming society, which contradicts man's social nature, etc. etc.

Ultimately, the highest "good" would be the highest form of existence, truth, goodness, and the most perfect "form." Which according to Thomas Aquinas is God. Of course, you don't have to accept this even if you accept the above worldview I'm describing, but it does seem to follow nicely and makes sense.

Of course, all of this is terribly Aristotelian which I understand is pretty unpopular nowadays lol
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,092
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5/31/2016 1:03:16 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 7:25:20 PM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.

i understand that's your opinion, but i disagree with goodness, beauty, and truth being interchangeable. i'm sure in some cases they are interchangeable, but not all, as i think they would need to be exactly the same to be interchangeable in all cases; to mean the same thing in all cases.

I've been busy with college lately, so I really haven't had a chance to read more into the stuff I'm talking about, so forgive me if it makes absolutely no sense ;)
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
ken1122
Posts: 471
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5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken
simplelife
Posts: 134
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5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil". Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.
Intpfox
Posts: 6
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5/31/2016 3:47:00 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 1:02:32 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:25:20 PM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.

i understand that's your opinion, but i disagree with goodness, beauty, and truth being interchangeable. i'm sure in some cases they are interchangeable, but not all, as i think they would need to be exactly the same to be interchangeable in all cases; to mean the same thing in all cases.

Let me elaborate a bit...

To be good is to fulfill the ends of that thing. A good knife is one which cuts well. A good man is one who uses reason accurately and uses things appropriately. He uses things in order to further fulfill himself and others.

Beauty is a quality of how close something is to its true form. Something which expresses a form very well and accurately is "beautiful." Something that shows us, say the form of suffering, can be beautiful.

I think one can argue that existence is "good."

i think one can also argue that existence is "bad." it's an opinion, like other things you have said. out of curiosity, do you think "good" is relative, or do you think there's a universal definition which, even if not everyone agrees with it, is absolute truth?

Something that exists is infinitely closer to it's truest form than something which doesn't exist. So a man who is alcoholic and beats his wife, still exists, and so is closer to being the highest fulfillment of a man than he would be if he didn't exist. Of course, he's obviously alcoholic and isn't using alcohol to improve himself... and he's beating his wife, which is obviously an abuse of her, as well as devastating to his relationship with her, indirectly harming society, which contradicts man's social nature, etc. etc.

Ultimately, the highest "good" would be the highest form of existence, truth, goodness, and the most perfect "form." Which according to Thomas Aquinas is God. Of course, you don't have to accept this even if you accept the above worldview I'm describing, but it does seem to follow nicely and makes sense.

Of course, all of this is terribly Aristotelian which I understand is pretty unpopular nowadays lol

thanks for sharing your opinion. i don't think there's anything else for me to say, though.

I've been busy with college lately, so I really haven't had a chance to read more into the stuff I'm talking about, so forgive me if it makes absolutely no sense ;)

you're fine. ^.^
"Even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." - Hypatia
ken1122
Posts: 471
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5/31/2016 3:56:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil".

The dictionary does not suggest the words are objective, so what"s your beef?

Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

Who are these confused men you speak of? Seems quite simple to me.

Ken
Intpfox
Posts: 6
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5/31/2016 3:58:55 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil". Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

I may be wrong, but I think there can be no global definition of how good presents itself (different people find different things to be good), but there is a global definition for goodness (things that are beneficial, though to whom and in what way vary per person, and morally correct, which also vary per person). The word "good" was created to describe beneficial things, or what is morally correct.
"Even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." - Hypatia
simplelife
Posts: 134
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5/31/2016 4:11:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 3:56:34 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil".

The dictionary does not suggest the words are objective, so what"s your beef?

Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

Who are these confused men you speak of? Seems quite simple to me.

Ken : :

Without referring to the dictionary, what is good to you? What is evil to you?

Once you're done defining these words with your own perspective, then go ask other people what they think "good" and "evil" are to them. Maybe then you will learn that these two words are subjective and not objective. What good is to you may appear evil to someone else.
simplelife
Posts: 134
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5/31/2016 4:13:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 3:58:55 AM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil". Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

I may be wrong, but I think there can be no global definition of how good presents itself (different people find different things to be good), but there is a global definition for goodness (things that are beneficial, though to whom and in what way vary per person, and morally correct, which also vary per person). The word "good" was created to describe beneficial things, or what is morally correct. : :

There is no objective morally good or evil. What you think is good could easily be seen as evil to someone else. I have witnessed this countless times in the past 8 years.
ken1122
Posts: 471
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5/31/2016 6:29:36 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 4:11:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:56:34 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil".

The dictionary does not suggest the words are objective, so what"s your beef?

Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

Who are these confused men you speak of? Seems quite simple to me.

Ken : :

Without referring to the dictionary, what is good to you? What is evil to you?

Once you're done defining these words with your own perspective, then go ask other people what they think "good" and "evil" are to them. Maybe then you will learn that these two words are subjective and not objective. What good is to you may appear evil to someone else.
What have I said that gave you the impression I believe morality is objective?

Ken
simplelife
Posts: 134
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5/31/2016 6:49:52 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 6:29:36 PM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/31/2016 4:11:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:56:34 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil".

The dictionary does not suggest the words are objective, so what"s your beef?

Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

Who are these confused men you speak of? Seems quite simple to me.

Ken : :

Without referring to the dictionary, what is good to you? What is evil to you?

Once you're done defining these words with your own perspective, then go ask other people what they think "good" and "evil" are to them. Maybe then you will learn that these two words are subjective and not objective. What good is to you may appear evil to someone else.
What have I said that gave you the impression I believe morality is objective?

Ken : :

I'm not talking about morality. I'm talking about what you perceive to be good or evil. Most people could care less about morality. That's for religious people who believe they have to live life under a certain set of laws to keep them from evil. They don't realize they're all hypocrites.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,092
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5/31/2016 10:07:46 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 3:47:00 AM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/31/2016 1:02:32 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/30/2016 7:25:20 PM, Intpfox wrote:
At 5/28/2016 11:10:09 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good?

Goodness, beauty, truth, etc. are interchangeable in my opinion. All different ways of looking at the same thing.

i understand that's your opinion, but i disagree with goodness, beauty, and truth being interchangeable. i'm sure in some cases they are interchangeable, but not all, as i think they would need to be exactly the same to be interchangeable in all cases; to mean the same thing in all cases.

Let me elaborate a bit...

To be good is to fulfill the ends of that thing. A good knife is one which cuts well. A good man is one who uses reason accurately and uses things appropriately. He uses things in order to further fulfill himself and others.

Beauty is a quality of how close something is to its true form. Something which expresses a form very well and accurately is "beautiful." Something that shows us, say the form of suffering, can be beautiful.

I think one can argue that existence is "good."

i think one can also argue that existence is "bad." it's an opinion, like other things you have said. out of curiosity, do you think "good" is relative, or do you think there's a universal definition which, even if not everyone agrees with it, is absolute truth?


I'd argue that "badness" is the result of a privation of a good which ought to be present.

Something that exists is infinitely closer to it's truest form than something which doesn't exist. So a man who is alcoholic and beats his wife, still exists, and so is closer to being the highest fulfillment of a man than he would be if he didn't exist. Of course, he's obviously alcoholic and isn't using alcohol to improve himself... and he's beating his wife, which is obviously an abuse of her, as well as devastating to his relationship with her, indirectly harming society, which contradicts man's social nature, etc. etc.

Ultimately, the highest "good" would be the highest form of existence, truth, goodness, and the most perfect "form." Which according to Thomas Aquinas is God. Of course, you don't have to accept this even if you accept the above worldview I'm describing, but it does seem to follow nicely and makes sense.

Of course, all of this is terribly Aristotelian which I understand is pretty unpopular nowadays lol

thanks for sharing your opinion. i don't think there's anything else for me to say, though.

I've been busy with college lately, so I really haven't had a chance to read more into the stuff I'm talking about, so forgive me if it makes absolutely no sense ;)

you're fine. ^.^
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
ken1122
Posts: 471
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6/1/2016 2:08:37 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/31/2016 6:49:52 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 6:29:36 PM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/31/2016 4:11:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:56:34 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:41:39 AM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/31/2016 3:01:04 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 5/30/2016 2:45:26 PM, simplelife wrote:
At 5/27/2016 10:06:06 PM, janesix wrote:
Is good the opposite of evil?

How do you define good? : :

There is no true definition to either good or evil. I can't imagine why those words were added to man's dictionaries.

If there were no definition to good or evil, it wouldn't be in man's dictionary

Ken : :

Whoever added the words "good" and "evil" to the dictionary was a liar with a subjective view of what is good and what is evil. There is no objective definitions for the words "good" or "evil".

The dictionary does not suggest the words are objective, so what"s your beef?

Both these words have confused man ever since he believed there was good and evil things and thoughts.

Who are these confused men you speak of? Seems quite simple to me.

Ken : :

Without referring to the dictionary, what is good to you? What is evil to you?

Once you're done defining these words with your own perspective, then go ask other people what they think "good" and "evil" are to them. Maybe then you will learn that these two words are subjective and not objective. What good is to you may appear evil to someone else.
What have I said that gave you the impression I believe morality is objective?

Ken : :

I'm not talking about morality. I'm talking about what you perceive to be good or evil. Most people could care less about morality. That's for religious people who believe they have to live life under a certain set of laws to keep them from evil. They don't realize they're all hypocrites.

Fair enough; what have I said that gave you the impression I believe good and evil are objective?

Ken