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Big Bang vs God Which is more believable?

HeavenlyPanda
Posts: 810
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7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?
HeavenlyPanda. The most heavenly of all heavenly creatures.
Axon85
Posts: 137
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7/12/2016 4:06:56 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

I am not sure how useful it is to frame this question in terms of believability. To primitive humans, the idea of a flat & stationary earth would have seemed much more believable than an earth that is round and in orbit. Science routinely produces discoveries that may strike one as unbelievable or counterintuitive. However, nature is under no obligation to behave in a manner pleasing to our senses or intuitions.

Thus, asking which one is "more believable" does not really have a correct answer. Answers will vary from person to person and will say more about the preconceived notions of the individual as opposed to the truth of either proposition.
janesix
Posts: 3,437
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7/15/2016 9:09:21 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

No Big Bang

God has always existed like this:

https://www.youtube.com...
David_Debates
Posts: 243
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7/15/2016 7:10:41 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

Based upon cause and effect theory, I find a creator to be a more likely, and thereby more believable, explanation of the beginning of the universe.

For those unfamiliar, cause and effect theory states:

Everything that exists is an effect.
Every effect has a cause.
The universe exists.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
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7/17/2016 10:56:04 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I find creation to be way more believable. It takes the odds of a complete fluke that universe and everything in it existing from trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions to 1 down to 0.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...
keithprosser
Posts: 1,904
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7/18/2016 5:21:00 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I did read the question, F5 - I just didn't think it was easy to answer! There must be a term for questions that look as if they have a simple binary answer but don't.
Obviously different people find one or the other more believable. 'Believablity' is not on an absolute scale but varies from individual to individual, depending on what they know (or think they know), and on what else they believe.

To be honest, I find the idea that all the matter in all the billions and billions of stars in all the billions and billions of galaxies was squeezed into something smaller than a proton pretty unbelievable - yet I believe it is was so. The biggest obstacle to me believing in divine creation is that I don't believe God exists, which makes believing in Him creating anything rather difficult. For me the BB is almost unbelievable but diviine creation is totally unbelievable. But I know that not everyone shares my mindset and so may well take the opposite view.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/19/2016 1:53:20 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 5:21:00 PM, keithprosser wrote:
I did read the question, F5 - I just didn't think it was easy to answer! There must be a term for questions that look as if they have a simple binary answer but don't.
Obviously different people find one or the other more believable. 'Believablity' is not on an absolute scale but varies from individual to individual, depending on what they know (or think they know), and on what else they believe.

To be honest, I find the idea that all the matter in all the billions and billions of stars in all the billions and billions of galaxies was squeezed into something smaller than a proton pretty unbelievable - yet I believe it is was so. The biggest obstacle to me believing in divine creation is that I don't believe God exists, which makes believing in Him creating anything rather difficult. For me the BB is almost unbelievable but diviine creation is totally unbelievable. But I know that not everyone shares my mindset and so may well take the opposite view.


I was referring to the people who say God created the Big Bang. The topic is Big Bang vs God. Not Big Bang caused by God vs Big Bang occurring without God.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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7/19/2016 5:51:05 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)

You failed to tell me if you are a credentialed scientist or answer the original Q. Tell me the experiments I can do to prove the Big Bang happened? Of course, we both know you know nothing of science and are merely parroting others you read on Google. But let us see if you can come up with something.
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/19/2016 7:05:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 5:51:05 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)

You failed to tell me if you are a credentialed scientist or answer the original Q. Tell me the experiments I can do to prove the Big Bang happened? Of course, we both know you know nothing of science and are merely parroting others you read on Google. But let us see if you can come up with something.

I'm not. Correct. I'll pass.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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7/19/2016 7:30:21 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 7:05:37 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:51:05 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)

You failed to tell me if you are a credentialed scientist or answer the original Q. Tell me the experiments I can do to prove the Big Bang happened? Of course, we both know you know nothing of science and are merely parroting others you read on Google. But let us see if you can come up with something.

I'm not. Correct. I'll pass.

In other words, this ignorant arrogant has no idea what the science as to this issue is, which is to say he has no idea if any of the fools he listens to are right or wrong in anything they say. He is utterly unable to critically analyze anything they say. So he takes their claims on faith. But why does he put his faith in them? Because they state things that conform to his biases. He is not doing science. He is not even thnking propertly. What a mental midget.
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/19/2016 8:04:52 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 7:30:21 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 7:05:37 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:51:05 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)

You failed to tell me if you are a credentialed scientist or answer the original Q. Tell me the experiments I can do to prove the Big Bang happened? Of course, we both know you know nothing of science and are merely parroting others you read on Google. But let us see if you can come up with something.

I'm not. Correct. I'll pass.

In other words, this ignorant arrogant has no idea what the science as to this issue is, which is to say he has no idea if any of the fools he listens to are right or wrong in anything they say. He is utterly unable to critically analyze anything they say. So he takes their claims on faith. But why does he put his faith in them? Because they state things that conform to his biases. He is not doing science. He is not even thnking propertly. What a mental midget.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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7/19/2016 8:30:35 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 8:04:52 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 7:30:21 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 7:05:37 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:51:05 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)

You failed to tell me if you are a credentialed scientist or answer the original Q. Tell me the experiments I can do to prove the Big Bang happened? Of course, we both know you know nothing of science and are merely parroting others you read on Google. But let us see if you can come up with something.

I'm not. Correct. I'll pass.

In other words, this ignorant arrogant has no idea what the science as to this issue is, which is to say he has no idea if any of the fools he listens to are right or wrong in anything they say. He is utterly unable to critically analyze anything they say. So he takes their claims on faith. But why does he put his faith in them? Because they state things that conform to his biases. He is not doing science. He is not even thnking propertly. What a mental midget.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

At least we got him to stop pretending to be intelligent and reduced him to meaningless platitudes.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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7/19/2016 8:40:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 8:30:35 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 8:04:52 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 7:30:21 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 7:05:37 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:51:05 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 5:38:40 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 4:20:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/19/2016 1:44:45 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 8:38:41 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:14:02 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
lol do you people even read the question?

Big Bang v God.

Whether God exists or not, the Big Bang occurred.

It did? Prove it? Tell what experiments I can conduct to prove it?

You don't have to because science already has. Feel free to research the relevant material if you can grasp it.

This dude is clearly not a scientist or is delusional, claiming that it speaks and can prove things. But has he not done the research himself to show us how we can repeat the experiments that led to the conclusions he has? Or is just operating on blind faith in those who agree wiith him? These people are jokes.

Lol. The most amazing thing is that Vice truly believes his logic. To Vice we are the idiots for believing what science tells us. (By science I mean scientists who have provided evidence to substantiate their claims and not that science is a actual being able to communicate with us. It's just a manner of speech. This is common knowledge to most intelligent people but obviously not to everyone.)

You failed to tell me if you are a credentialed scientist or answer the original Q. Tell me the experiments I can do to prove the Big Bang happened? Of course, we both know you know nothing of science and are merely parroting others you read on Google. But let us see if you can come up with something.

I'm not. Correct. I'll pass.

In other words, this ignorant arrogant has no idea what the science as to this issue is, which is to say he has no idea if any of the fools he listens to are right or wrong in anything they say. He is utterly unable to critically analyze anything they say. So he takes their claims on faith. But why does he put his faith in them? Because they state things that conform to his biases. He is not doing science. He is not even thnking propertly. What a mental midget.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

At least we got him to stop pretending to be intelligent and reduced him to meaningless platitudes.

Why do you ignore the commands of your god, vicey?
lawlypants
Posts: 374
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7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...

Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/19/2016 9:24:10 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

Look at this dude
https://youtu.be...

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

I agree

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

Where does he specificly say that he doesn't know anything? like the specific time mark in the video

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

This would make sense, but as Krauss shows, something can come from nothing. Thus its debunked
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/19/2016 9:26:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?


Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...

Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

The only problem I have with this theory is 13,4 billion years. Why then? What changed 13,4 billion years ago to make God create the universe? Why not 14 billion years ago? 100 billion? If God always existed, He existed a billion, billion,billion,billion, etc, etc years ago. If you can give me a logical explanation why the universe wasn't created 100 billion years ago, without claiming that time did not exist before the Big Bang, please do.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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7/19/2016 11:15:59 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 9:26:12 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?



Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...

Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

The only problem I have with this theory is 13,4 billion years. Why then? What changed 13,4 billion years ago to make God create the universe? Why not 14 billion years ago? 100 billion? If God always existed, He existed a billion, billion,billion,billion, etc, etc years ago. If you can give me a logical explanation why the universe wasn't created 100 billion years ago, without claiming that time did not exist before the Big Bang, please do.

Ahhh, the Big Bang never happened. Stop pretending to know something of science when you know nothing about it.

And given that you have demonstrated nothing but ignorance of logic, you would not know a logical argument if given to you. Why bother asking?
lawlypants
Posts: 374
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7/19/2016 11:31:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 9:24:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

Look at this dude
https://youtu.be...

I've already seen this, it doesn't change anything I've stated already.
...."is that...we are happy not to understand things".... is that so? You are happy not to understand things? Mister Phd and his followers are happy not to understand things, and then he goes on explaining things he is happy he doesn't fully understand...thus something came from nothing, and nothing came from something, screw the Law of Conversation... Awesome.

source: https://youtu.be...

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

I agree

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

Where does he specificly say that he doesn't know anything? like the specific time mark in the video

Keep your verbal gymnastics to yourself. I specifically said "Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all." The time-stamped footage from your own link is at the very beginning of the video. See above link, among other videos of him.

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

This would make sense, but as Krauss shows, something can come from nothing. Thus its debunked

Sorry, he didn't debunk any such thing. He doesn't even know what nothing is and apologized for his absolutely RIDICULOUS mistake. You can stop blindly following people who say things that you aren't familiar with.

source: https://youtu.be...
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/20/2016 1:14:04 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 11:31:37 PM, lawlypants wrote:
I've already seen this, it doesn't change anything I've stated already.
...."is that...we are happy not to understand things".... is that so? You are happy not to understand things? Mister Phd and his followers are happy not to understand things, and then he goes on explaining things he is happy he doesn't fully understand...thus something came from nothing, and nothing came from something, screw the Law of Conversation... Awesome.

It shows matter coming from nothing!
bamiller43
Posts: 200
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7/20/2016 4:49:57 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

Here's a thought:
P1: in the beginning, the universe was condensed into a space the size of a proton.
P2: This space contained all matter and energy in the universe.
P3: Matter and energy cannot be created nor can they be destroyed.
C1: The universe could not have been brought about from nothing, or created. from P1-P3
C2: The universe has no cause or beginning. It also has no end. from C1+P3
P4: Anything with no beginning or end is considered infinite.
C3: The universe is infinite. from C2+P3.

The above is a personal theory of mine based on simple deductive logic, and to my knowledge has not been accepted by any professional in the field of physics. So take it with a grain of salt.

Another way to look at it, is that if time and space only began with the universe, then before the universe, nothing could have happened as a lack of time and dimension would not allow it. Thus, in a timeless sort of way, the proton sized space was always there (relatively speaking, as there was no "there" for it to be).

Either way, the universe needs no explanation of its cause because it itself is causeless, and therefore needs no God to cause it.
The idea that it must have a cause comes about from our own mortal frame of reference. So many things we observe have a beginning and end, including ourselves and so many of us think, "why wouldn't everything?". Being finite, we have trouble understanding the infinite, and so try to bring about causes for things, the universe being no exception. We begin this process, and often end with something clearly not created: God. But it only ends with the universe itself.
bamiller43
Posts: 200
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7/20/2016 4:58:31 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 7:10:41 PM, David_Debates wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?

Based upon cause and effect theory, I find a creator to be a more likely, and thereby more believable, explanation of the beginning of the universe.

For those unfamiliar, cause and effect theory states:

Everything that exists is an effect.
Every effect has a cause.
The universe exists.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.

What is the universe's cause?
lawlypants
Posts: 374
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7/20/2016 6:30:58 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/19/2016 9:26:12 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?



Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...

Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

The only problem I have with this theory is 13,4 billion years. Why then? What changed 13,4 billion years ago to make God create the universe? Why not 14 billion years ago? 100 billion? If God always existed, He existed a billion, billion,billion,billion, etc, etc years ago. If you can give me a logical explanation why the universe wasn't created 100 billion years ago, without claiming that time did not exist before the Big Bang, please do.

Why stop there with those ridiculous line of questions that serve no purpose to know or understand, why didn't God create magical balloons that sing instead of creating gravity? Why didn't God allow you to have a bigger penis? Why didn't God make you magically understand things correctly so that you can stop asking these types of pathetic questions? Why didn't God help you have the logical brain power to understand the simple answer that God does what He wills, how He wills, whenever He wills, and isn't account to you or other pathetic lowly creation of His that belongs to Him. Why didn't God help people like you understand that it is the other way around and that you and everyone else is accountable to Him, not the other way around. Why didn't God help you be smart enough to understand that you should be grateful for every breathe you take that you are even alive, because a higher power that can "will" the existence of the entire Universe and everything in it WHENEVER "He" wants, at the blink of an eye can also destroy it all in the blink of an eye at will, yet hasn't. Your only "problem" with this isn't a "problem" at all, its a severely derisory point.
Furyan5
Posts: 1,228
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7/20/2016 10:00:47 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/20/2016 6:30:58 AM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:26:12 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?



Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...

Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

The only problem I have with this theory is 13,4 billion years. Why then? What changed 13,4 billion years ago to make God create the universe? Why not 14 billion years ago? 100 billion? If God always existed, He existed a billion, billion,billion,billion, etc, etc years ago. If you can give me a logical explanation why the universe wasn't created 100 billion years ago, without claiming that time did not exist before the Big Bang, please do.

Why stop there with those ridiculous line of questions that serve no purpose to know or understand, why didn't God create magical balloons that sing instead of creating gravity? Why didn't God allow you to have a bigger penis? Why didn't God make you magically understand things correctly so that you can stop asking these types of pathetic questions? Why didn't God help you have the logical brain power to understand the simple answer that God does what He wills, how He wills, whenever He wills, and isn't account to you or other pathetic lowly creation of His that belongs to Him. Why didn't God help people like you understand that it is the other way around and that you and everyone else is accountable to Him, not the other way around. Why didn't God help you be smart enough to understand that you should be grateful for every breathe you take that you are even alive, because a higher power that can "will" the existence of the entire Universe and everything in it WHENEVER "He" wants, at the blink of an eye can also destroy it all in the blink of an eye at will, yet hasn't. Your only "problem" with this isn't a "problem" at all, its a severely derisory point.

In other words, no!
lawlypants
Posts: 374
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7/20/2016 5:10:35 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/20/2016 10:00:47 AM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/20/2016 6:30:58 AM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:26:12 PM, Furyan5 wrote:
At 7/19/2016 9:03:40 PM, lawlypants wrote:
At 7/18/2016 4:54:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/12/2016 2:27:26 AM, HeavenlyPanda wrote:
I think God is more believable. Scientists have concluded that our whole univers came from something smaller than a proton. And as soon as our universe began time and space were created. Scientists don't know how or where this little thing that created the universe came from. Maybe God created the little speck and made it explode into a universe. The bible does state that God has no beginning or end and science has proved that the universe at least did have a beginning. Therefore it is possible that God could have created the Big Bang. Scientists cannot explain how the Big Bang happened even so maybe it is God?



Your understanding of the Big Bang is wrong, watch this
https://www.youtube.com...

Lawrence Krauss has a PHD in Physics yet he believes that the Law of Conservation can be broken, aka something from nothing, or nothing to something, which goes against science, b/c he desperately wants to appose the possibility of a Higher Power. At best he has already admitted that he doesn't know for sure, like what he just states at the beginning of the youtube video, if you bothered to watch your own reference link dude.

The current prevailing scientific theory is that an event such as the BIG BANG actually did occur, and it is the most likely theory in existence right now and it is also something that Lawrence Krauss agrees with. So much for your links and references...do any of you people bother to read or understand anything anyone tries to explain properly?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

Your scientist that you currently are clinging onto, RIGHTFULLY admits that he has no idea what "nothing" really is and he doesn't really understand it all. So if your reference is saying he doesn't really know, then why are you claiming to know?
source: https://www.youtube.com...

The Big Bang being the most likely thing that may have occurred it would follow that it had to be initiated at some point in time by something that is beyond and above the rules of space and time in the first place. Belief in a ONE and ONLY ONE unimaginable-to-the-human-mind "God" that has always ever lived, with no comparisons of any kind, completely unique and separate from everything else, with no beginning and no end, who is the Ultimate Cause and Creator of everything, is the most logical, rational, reasonable, sane, scientific stance to hold. Regardless of any theory that any "scientist" wants to come up with either in the past, now, or future, God will always be the Ultimate Cause of it, and this "theory" ain't goin nowhere buddy.

The only problem I have with this theory is 13,4 billion years. Why then? What changed 13,4 billion years ago to make God create the universe? Why not 14 billion years ago? 100 billion? If God always existed, He existed a billion, billion,billion,billion, etc, etc years ago. If you can give me a logical explanation why the universe wasn't created 100 billion years ago, without claiming that time did not exist before the Big Bang, please do.

Why stop there with those ridiculous line of questions that serve no purpose to know or understand, why didn't God create magical balloons that sing instead of creating gravity? Why didn't God allow you to have a bigger penis? Why didn't God make you magically understand things correctly so that you can stop asking these types of pathetic questions? Why didn't God help you have the logical brain power to understand the simple answer that God does what He wills, how He wills, whenever He wills, and isn't account to you or other pathetic lowly creation of His that belongs to Him. Why didn't God help people like you understand that it is the other way around and that you and everyone else is accountable to Him, not the other way around. Why didn't God help you be smart enough to understand that you should be grateful for every breathe you take that you are even alive, because a higher power that can "will" the existence of the entire Universe and everything in it WHENEVER "He" wants, at the blink of an eye can also destroy it all in the blink of an eye at will, yet hasn't. Your only "problem" with this isn't a "problem" at all, its a severely derisory point.

In other words, no!

Buddy, "no" is not an answer to your question of "why not". One-liners aren't going to get you anywhere with me, I understand most people here have short attention spans and so one-liners seem to be the cool way to go but it's not getting you anywhere with me.

You didn't answer any of my questions either, and if you were to ask "science" (whatever you think that is in your head buddy) they wouldn't be able to give you any solid answers either, not now or in the future. According to the most prevailing scientific theories the Universe is 13-14 billion years old roughly.
"Scientists have come to some agreement on descriptions of events that happened 10^-35 seconds after the Big Bang, but generally agree that descriptions about what happened before one Planck time (5 x 10^-44 seconds) after the Big Bang are likely to remain pure speculation."
source: https://en.wikipedia.org...

That was when t = almost 0 seconds (time barely began, the entire concept of time began). What was happening at or before t=0 there is no science or scientists on this planet, either in the past, present or in the future who will be able to tell anyone with 100% certainty what was happening at t<0 or why it even occurred at that time. So if you don't want to believe in a higher power because you don't have an answer for this retarded and derisory inquisition, then it would also follow that you shouldn't believe in ANYTHING at all, not science, not anything, because nothing has an answer to everything, or a full answer to ANY of these questions, and it never will.

Yes, yes, that line of thinking is so very "logical", good job (sarcasm).