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The Dalai Lama On Human Nature

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/27/2010 5:44:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
"It is my firm conviction that human nature is essentially compassionate and gentle. That is the predominant feature of human nature. Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection. They are not part of our most basic, underlying nature." -- The Dalai Lama
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/27/2010 7:06:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:44:03 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"It is my firm conviction that human nature is essentially compassionate and gentle. That is the predominant feature of human nature. Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection. They are not part of our most basic, underlying nature." -- The Dalai Lama

Although i reject most of Buddhism, i do find value in many of it's teachings, particularly those that speak of human nature and how we are the authors of our own unhappiness.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/27/2010 11:55:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:44:03 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"It is my firm conviction that human nature is essentially compassionate and gentle. That is the predominant feature of human nature. Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection. They are not part of our most basic, underlying nature." -- The Dalai Lama:

Done!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/27/2010 1:19:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 5:44:03 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"It is my firm conviction that human nature is essentially compassionate and gentle.

that's one General aspect of people...

it's not absolute though (not the case for all humans)... and there are other important, often Competing, aspects too.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/27/2010 2:27:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 11:55:30 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Done!

First of all, ad hominem. Who he is or what he has done doesn't affect the truth of his claim. Second, I already refuted that video here: http://www.debate.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/27/2010 2:48:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
it is my firm belief that human nature consists in only the beautiful parts of our species. the ugly parts can be dismissed... cause lets face it, nobody likes them.

so beautiful! *sniffs*

how is this anything but a self serving delusion?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/27/2010 3:02:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 2:48:29 PM, belle wrote:
it is my firm belief that human nature consists in only the beautiful parts of our species. the ugly parts can be dismissed... cause lets face it, nobody likes them.

That's not what he's saying. Plus, he didn't dismiss the "ugly parts."

"Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection."
-- the Dalai Lama
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/27/2010 3:16:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:02:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/27/2010 2:48:29 PM, belle wrote:
it is my firm belief that human nature consists in only the beautiful parts of our species. the ugly parts can be dismissed... cause lets face it, nobody likes them.

That's not what he's saying. Plus, he didn't dismiss the "ugly parts."

"Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection."
-- the Dalai Lama

sounds like a dismissal to me! they're not "real" human nature, they're just what happens when we're having a bad day.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/29/2010 11:00:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
we're natural survivors and hedonists and that's about it i'd say. and i'd say the rest stems from those two.
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/29/2010 11:14:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:00:50 PM, badger wrote:
i'd say we're natural survivors and hedonists and the rest stems from those two.

fix'd

my new year's resolution is to reread before i post :)
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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12/29/2010 11:19:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As wonderful as the OP quote is, evolution has carved all life forms into reproduction-oriented survivors. All human nature, therefore, must be a complicated extension of this premise.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/29/2010 11:24:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
actually i'd say you could nearly even put the will to survive down to hedonism, because we don't all have it.. and the suicidal seek peace (pleasure?) or whatever in death.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/29/2010 11:30:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Human nature is neither basically gentle nor violent. It is, however, basically irrational.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/29/2010 11:34:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:30:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Human nature is neither basically gentle nor violent. It is, however, basically irrational.

nuh uh. i'd say it's all to do with what gives you kicks. that's not irrational. the things that give you kicks give you kicks for a reason.. because you're you!
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/29/2010 11:35:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:30:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is, however, basically irrational.

there's a rational component to it...
as well as non-rational one's that have nothing to do with rationality/irrationality..

but I certainly wouldn't say Irrationality necessarily plays any particular role.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:35:19 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:30:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is, however, basically irrational.

there's a rational component to it...
as well as non-rational one's that have nothing to do with rationality/irrationality..

but I certainly wouldn't say Irrationality necessarily plays any particular role.

I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
badger
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12/29/2010 11:43:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:35:19 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:30:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is, however, basically irrational.

there's a rational component to it...
as well as non-rational one's that have nothing to do with rationality/irrationality..

but I certainly wouldn't say Irrationality necessarily plays any particular role.

I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.

like?
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/29/2010 11:43:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.

non-rational.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/29/2010 11:48:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:43:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.

non-rational.

how do you figure?
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/29/2010 11:51:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:48:53 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:43:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.

non-rational.

how do you figure?

they're based in those feelings and emotions you happen to have...

the feelings and Emotions themselves don't have "rational" basis... they just ARE... as the Universe just IS... as the world just IS...

there's no particular reason things MUST be that way.. but they ARE.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
badger
Posts: 11,793
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12/29/2010 11:58:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:51:21 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:48:53 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:43:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.

non-rational.

how do you figure?

they're based in those feelings and emotions you happen to have...

the feelings and Emotions themselves don't have "rational" basis... they just ARE... as the Universe just IS... as the world just IS...

there's no particular reason things MUST be that way.. but they ARE.

i think the same.
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mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/30/2010 12:00:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:58:29 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:51:21 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
the feelings and Emotions themselves don't have "rational" basis... they just ARE... as the Universe just IS... as the world just IS...

there's no particular reason things MUST be that way.. but they ARE.

i think the same.

there's no arguing with the truth! lol :)

'Rationality' enters in when you determine how to act... GIVEN those feelings and emotions you happen to have...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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12/30/2010 12:20:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
'Rationality' enters in when you determine how to act... GIVEN those feelings and emotions you happen to have...

This, as there is no proper goal in many contexts (e.g. should I prefer this sensory value over this other one).

As per OP, I can't see a rational justification for such a conception of human nature - care to defend anyone, including Geo?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/30/2010 2:54:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection."
-- the Dalai Lama:

Pfft, yeah that must be it....

That's the worst dime-store philosophy I've ever heard.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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12/30/2010 2:56:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 2:27:21 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/27/2010 11:55:30 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Done!

First of all, ad hominem. Who he is or what he has done doesn't affect the truth of his claim.:

So shedding light on him is tantamount to ad hominem? Calling a spade a spade is just calling it a spade.

Second, I already refuted that video here:

You made an attempt... and you failed.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/30/2010 3:15:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 11:51:21 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:48:53 PM, badger wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:43:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 12/29/2010 11:42:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would say that the majority of human motivations are irrational.

non-rational.

how do you figure?

they're based in those feelings and emotions you happen to have...

the feelings and Emotions themselves don't have "rational" basis... they just ARE... as the Universe just IS... as the world just IS...

there's no particular reason things MUST be that way.. but they ARE.

You have emotions and feelings for a reason. And rationale applies differently to different things.

Pair bonding by a mother and child, which is an emotional connection. Pair bonding with a mate or with a social group (since for our species, survival was easier in a group, then independently).

If your "clan" (or whatever they called groups in caveman times) was attacked, "fear" was an emotion to drive you to run, or "anger" to drive you to fight back. Emotions came around before our ability to have complex logical thoughts, as a way to put us on autopilot to do the rational actions. Granted, they are not perfect, and can make mistakes, but what doesn't?

There is also, as a survival instinct, if you get attacked by a bear, your mind learns that bears are dangerous (assuming you survive the attack) and you should stay away from them. this is technically a generalization that your mind makes for the sake of survival, based off of "better safe then sorry."

While factually, such a generalization may be irrational (i.e. not true), for the goal of survival, it may be completely rational.

Of course, if we apply that same logic to... a person was attacked by a black man and so now avoids every black man as a safety precaution, they become a racist.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/30/2010 3:19:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 2:56:18 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 12/27/2010 2:27:21 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/27/2010 11:55:30 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Done!

First of all, ad hominem. Who he is or what he has done doesn't affect the truth of his claim.:

So shedding light on him is tantamount to ad hominem? Calling a spade a spade is just calling it a spade.

Do you know what an ad hominem is? Apparently not.

"Ad hominem abuse usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions." -- http://en.wikipedia.org...

Clearly, this is what you have done. You have attacked the Dalai Lama's character (whether your attacks are true or not is irrelevant) and then claimed "Done!" as if to have refuted his argument. Ad hominem fallacy.

Second, I already refuted that video here:

You made an attempt... and you failed.

And you failed to refute my argument.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/30/2010 3:21:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 2:54:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
"Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection."
-- the Dalai Lama:

Pfft, yeah that must be it....

That's the worst dime-store philosophy I've ever heard.

A worthless assertion with no justification.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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12/30/2010 3:28:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/30/2010 3:21:24 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/30/2010 2:54:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
"Anger, violence, and aggression may arise, but on a secondary or more superficial level; in a sense, they arise when we are frustrated in our efforts to achieve love and affection."
-- the Dalai Lama:

Pfft, yeah that must be it....

That's the worst dime-store philosophy I've ever heard.

A worthless assertion with no justification.

Your entire OP is an appeal to authority fallacy.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"