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In Search for Reason

Alex
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1/5/2011 8:04:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
About a week ago I began to consider myself an "Agnostic" while i began my search to find what i believe and why i believe it, because i never really had a solid reason.

Basically what i have ran into so far is that there are two major catagories or reasons people believe what they do.

Atheists:

1. You disagree with arguments based on the existance of a Deity. (Why we are something rather than nothing) And you agree that it happened without an ID.

2. You disagree with arguments based on actual historical events (Mainly Christianity or Jesus)

Theists:

1. The opposite as atheists, you believe the universe to be created by an Intelligent Designer.

2. Opposite as well, you agree with arguments made in favor of historical Jesus and events.

Although this hasn't helped me one bit on my quest, I ask you guys which do you believe (or if you fall under another category)

I know some Christians base it on "Personal Experience" But that still means you agree with everything in favor of Jesus historically, so i ask that you don't say that's a different category.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/5/2011 8:07:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Deus, sive Natura . . . the most logical way . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/5/2011 8:14:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 8:12:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So are you only accepting Agnosticism as a temporary?

I'm accepting it until I decide whether I want to keep it, or go back to Christianity. I guess you could say i'm considering it neutral at this point.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
belle
Posts: 4,113
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1/5/2011 8:15:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 8:14:45 PM, Alex wrote:
At 1/5/2011 8:12:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So are you only accepting Agnosticism as a temporary?

I'm accepting it until I decide whether I want to keep it, or go back to Christianity. I guess you could say i'm considering it neutral at this point.

haha. atheism's not even on the table, eh?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/5/2011 8:18:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 8:15:42 PM, belle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 8:14:45 PM, Alex wrote:
At 1/5/2011 8:12:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So are you only accepting Agnosticism as a temporary?

I'm accepting it until I decide whether I want to keep it, or go back to Christianity. I guess you could say i'm considering it neutral at this point.

haha. atheism's not even on the table, eh?

Well to me that's basically agnostic. I mean, nobody can really be completely sure either way. If i landed on agnostic It would basically be atheist but still accepting i could be wrong, if that makes sense.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/5/2011 8:30:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
first the hanson and now the christianity!? i don't even know who you are anymore... welcome to the dark side! :)
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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1/5/2011 9:11:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 8:04:31 PM, Alex wrote:
About a week ago I began to consider myself an "Agnostic" while i began my search to find what i believe and why i believe it, because i never really had a solid reason.

Basically what i have ran into so far is that there are two major catagories or reasons people believe what they do.

Atheists:

1. You disagree with arguments based on the existance of a Deity. (Why we are something rather than nothing) And you agree that it happened without an ID.


You can disagree with arguments based on the existence of a Deity while being a theist...

2. You disagree with arguments based on actual historical events (Mainly Christianity or Jesus)


You can disagree with arguments based on actual historical events while being a theist.

Theists:

1. The opposite as atheists, you believe the universe to be created by an Intelligent Designer.

2. Opposite as well, you agree with arguments made in favor of historical Jesus and events.

You can agree with arguments made in favor of the historical Jesus and be an atheist.


Although this hasn't helped me one bit on my quest, I ask you guys which do you believe (or if you fall under another category)

I know some Christians base it on "Personal Experience" But that still means you agree with everything in favor of Jesus historically...

No, it doesn't.

Anyways, I fall in the Theist category, obviously.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/5/2011 9:23:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:11:11 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/5/2011 8:04:31 PM, Alex wrote:
About a week ago I began to consider myself an "Agnostic" while i began my search to find what i believe and why i believe it, because i never really had a solid reason.

Basically what i have ran into so far is that there are two major catagories or reasons people believe what they do.

Atheists:

1. You disagree with arguments based on the existance of a Deity. (Why we are something rather than nothing) And you agree that it happened without an ID.


You can disagree with arguments based on the existence of a Deity while being a theist...

2. You disagree with arguments based on actual historical events (Mainly Christianity or Jesus)


You can disagree with arguments based on actual historical events while being a theist.

Theists:

1. The opposite as atheists, you believe the universe to be created by an Intelligent Designer.

2. Opposite as well, you agree with arguments made in favor of historical Jesus and events.

You can agree with arguments made in favor of the historical Jesus and be an atheist.


Although this hasn't helped me one bit on my quest, I ask you guys which do you believe (or if you fall under another category)

I know some Christians base it on "Personal Experience" But that still means you agree with everything in favor of Jesus historically...

No, it doesn't.

Anyways, I fall in the Theist category, obviously.

As an atheist you can accept say the (as an example) Cosmological argument as valid, but you cannot believe in God if you don't think it's true.

If that kinda clears it up?

I didn't word my post well.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/5/2011 9:26:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In an attempt to clarify:

Atheists are atheists for one reason or another, i'm trying to figure out specifically why. Do you not think there is an intelligent designer or do you think there is evidence enough against historical events.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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1/5/2011 9:44:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:26:34 PM, Alex wrote:
In an attempt to clarify:

Atheists are atheists for one reason or another, i'm trying to figure out specifically why.

The typical answer(s) are that there isn't enough evidence to believe in God and/or there is far too much evil in the world for to have been created by a 3 O God. That's what I used to say at any rate. The more complex answers is that the "hypothesis" of God conflicts with another deeply help philosophical view they hold (anything from revulsion against the idea of hell as eternal torture to them being physicalists to...etc) so the God hypothesis gets discarded away with.

The reason is going to vary based on the person. Just like with a theist.

Do you not think there is an intelligent designer or do you think there is evidence enough against historical events.

I do think there is an intelligent designer. I don't know which specific historical events you're talking about so I can't really answer that.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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1/5/2011 9:45:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:26:34 PM, Alex wrote:
In an attempt to clarify:

Atheists are atheists for one reason or another, i'm trying to figure out specifically why. Do you not think there is an intelligent designer or do you think there is evidence enough against historical events.

Neither one is a good reason to be an atheist. Recall that an atheist is one who has a lack of belief. Logically and philosophically, why would you default to believing something if there is no evidence of its existence?

They don't need a reason to NOT have a belief. That's like asking someone "You don't have a toaster. What is your reason for not having a toaster?"
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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1/5/2011 10:23:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:45:16 PM, Kleptin wrote:
They don't need a reason to NOT have a belief. That's like asking someone "You don't have a toaster. What is your reason for not having a toaster?"

maybe they just don't like toast.

also clearly you do need a reason not to believe something. i could stubbornly claim that i don't believe in bill clinton... given the vast amount of evidence for his existence i would need a good reason to back it up to avoid being labelled crazy. though its likely i wouldn't be able to come up with one :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/5/2011 10:40:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:45:16 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 1/5/2011 9:26:34 PM, Alex wrote:
In an attempt to clarify:

Atheists are atheists for one reason or another, i'm trying to figure out specifically why. Do you not think there is an intelligent designer or do you think there is evidence enough against historical events.

Neither one is a good reason to be an atheist. Recall that an atheist is one who has a lack of belief. Logically and philosophically, why would you default to believing something if there is no evidence of its existence?

They don't need a reason to NOT have a belief. That's like asking someone "You don't have a toaster. What is your reason for not having a toaster?"

If there was a reason for choosing between a toaster and something else, then there would probably be a reason.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/5/2011 10:40:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:23:43 PM, belle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 9:45:16 PM, Kleptin wrote:
They don't need a reason to NOT have a belief. That's like asking someone "You don't have a toaster. What is your reason for not having a toaster?"

maybe they just don't like toast.

also clearly you do need a reason not to believe something. i could stubbornly claim that i don't believe in bill clinton... given the vast amount of evidence for his existence i would need a good reason to back it up to avoid being labelled crazy. though its likely i wouldn't be able to come up with one :P

i've not heard a good reason for believing in god... if you believe something you believe it.. there're no ifs and buts.. it's just the way you're wired i'd say..
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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 10:47:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:26:34 PM, Alex wrote:
In an attempt to clarify:

Atheists are atheists for one reason or another, i'm trying to figure out specifically why. Do you not think there is an intelligent designer or do you think there is evidence enough against historical events.

Here's why I'm an atheist:

1. Insufficient proof for the existence of any deity

2. Alternative theories for our existence with sufficient proof to disregard some theistic theories (like Creationism)

3. Overall implausibility of there being an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotence, omnibenevolent, and eternal being

That's quite basic but it's a good starting place. :)
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 11:12:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is this yet ANOTHER thread asking Atheists to explain why they're Atheist? :P
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/5/2011 11:50:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 9:26:34 PM, Alex wrote:
In an attempt to clarify:

Atheists are atheists for one reason or another, i'm trying to figure out specifically why. Do you not think there is an intelligent designer or do you think there is evidence enough against historical events.

I'm not closed to the idea of an intelligent designer, but I do know that particular attributes or stories about the Abrahamic God are just entirely unfounded, impossible or outright silly. Like Kleptin said, why would you believe something absurd without reason (well, the fear of going to Hell is a pretty good reason, so I guess the theists covered all their bases with that massive burden lol -- fear can make you do anything). The explanations for God are dubious and flimsy. If there was evidence for God to back up the outlandish claims of such a figure, I would believe - just as I believe other theories that actually back themselves up. In short though, I won't pretend to know who or what if anything created the universe. But if it's God, I HIGHLY doubt he/she cares if you are a virgin when you marry, or any of the other frivolous taboos. I say LIVE YOUR LIFE. Be a good person. If there's a God, that's all that really matters.
President of DDO
Alex
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1/6/2011 12:25:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:12:50 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Is this yet ANOTHER thread asking Atheists to explain why they're Atheist? :P

Basically, but for different reasons.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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1/6/2011 12:36:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 12:25:25 AM, Alex wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:12:50 PM, M.Torres wrote:
Is this yet ANOTHER thread asking Atheists to explain why they're Atheist? :P

Basically, but for different reasons.

The reason shouldn't make a difference to a question that really should have only one answer.

They subscribe to the notion that there is no reason to contemplate the possible existence of something that doesn't show any evidence of existing.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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1/6/2011 1:11:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 8:14:45 PM, Alex wrote:
At 1/5/2011 8:12:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So are you only accepting Agnosticism as a temporary?

I'm accepting it until I decide whether I want to keep it, or go back to Christianity. I guess you could say i'm considering it neutral at this point.

Well, if you're asking us why we are atheists, I could give my reasons.

1. Theism seems prima facie implausible.

2. The world makes more sense assuming that there is no God. Atheism explain:
(a) Why there is so much evil.
(b) Why there are so many different religions.
(c) Why the holy books are filled with so much barbarism and scientific error.
(d) Why God feels absent (at least to me). And somewhat ironically, it also explains why some people feel as though God is present.

3. Christopher Hitchens has a very persuasive British accent. Seriously, have you ever heard that guy give a speech. ---->
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Alex
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1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/6/2011 1:25:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM, Alex wrote:
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?

she wants him to pull one of those "The Power of Christ Compels You!" tricks
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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1/6/2011 1:28:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM, Alex wrote:
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?

This calls for an intervention!
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/6/2011 1:29:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 1:25:28 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM, Alex wrote:
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?

she wants him to pull one of those "The Power of Christ Compels You!" tricks



I think he already tried, half way through the conversation my internet froze and closed which is not a normal occasion...Weeeeeird
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/6/2011 1:30:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 1:28:22 AM, Puck wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM, Alex wrote:
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?

This calls for an intervention!

Lol I kinda got the same impression, however i think it's mostly just because she thinks he can respond to my questions better than she can.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/6/2011 2:19:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 1:30:51 AM, Alex wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:28:22 AM, Puck wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM, Alex wrote:
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?

This calls for an intervention!

Lol I kinda got the same impression, however i think it's mostly just because she thinks he can respond to my questions better than she can.

points if you can own the pastor in a debate between atheism and theism.
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Alex
Posts: 2,058
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1/6/2011 2:52:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/6/2011 2:19:25 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:30:51 AM, Alex wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:28:22 AM, Puck wrote:
At 1/6/2011 1:15:57 AM, Alex wrote:
I just finished chatting with a friend starting with me questioning one of her many frequent posts about god, and at the end she said she wants to talk to me about it again with a pastor. Does that mean i dun good?

This calls for an intervention!

Lol I kinda got the same impression, however i think it's mostly just because she thinks he can respond to my questions better than she can.

points if you can own the pastor in a debate between atheism and theism.

Well part of why i owned her so bad was because she made claims that a real apologist would not make (Which drove me to no end when i argued in favor of apologetics)

Secondly he's had experience and is actually decent. My problem is that when in person i tend to get adrenalin rushed and hurry what i'm trying to say. Don't get me wrong i think i could do fine against him, i just need to work on that.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?