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Atheism possible in a sense Evil...

joshuaXlawyer
Posts: 45
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1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?
Objection!!!! thats baseless conjecture!!
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 10:51:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

No. That implies subjective morals. Many atheists believe in objective morals, such as myself.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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1/5/2011 10:53:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

Pretty much. If they think it is ok to murder then it is what it is. Some do choose a "moral code" but in the end the outline is completely defined by them. I don't know if you can get away with calling it evil, I would agree with you but our definition of evil could differ.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 10:56:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Do we have a "like" button on DDO? I think we need one.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
joshuaXlawyer
Posts: 45
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1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc
Objection!!!! thats baseless conjecture!!
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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1/5/2011 11:07:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

Do you need religion to tell you not to murder people, or steal from them? If so, you are just a bad person, and I'm glad you have God to keep you in line. Dummy...
badger
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1/5/2011 11:07:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:51:44 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

No. That implies subjective morals. Many atheists believe in objective morals, such as myself.

i've heard that they do.. any reasons for believing this? i believe that morals are objectively subjective...?
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/5/2011 11:08:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:07:33 PM, badger wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:51:44 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

No. That implies subjective morals. Many atheists believe in objective morals, such as myself.

i've heard that they do.. any reasons for believing this? i believe that morals are objectively subjective...?

well.. i dunno.. but that's how it seems anyway..
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jharry
Posts: 4,984
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1/5/2011 11:08:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But, on the Theist side of this (most Christians) there are still do and do not. Whether you call them morals or not. I'm a border line moral nihilists in a very very vague sense. But there are still clear things that I can do and what I can't do, and the are out of my control or choice (rough statement).
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 11:10:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc

Theist leaders choose their moral guidelines. Is that not true?

The Aztecs believed murder (sacrifice to the Gods) was moral. Are their Gods immoral, or do they not exist? If it is the latter, why?

To Theists - does God invent "moral guidelines" or does he follow moral guidelines independent of him?
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
joshuaXlawyer
Posts: 45
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1/5/2011 11:15:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:10:02 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc

Theist leaders choose their moral guidelines. Is that not true?

The Aztecs believed murder (sacrifice to the Gods) was moral. Are their Gods immoral, or do they not exist? If it is the latter, why?

To Theists - does God invent "moral guidelines" or does he follow moral guidelines independent of him?

No No im not even implying god at all, you see even if god doesn't exist , what end does it change? nothing at all, ill just die nothing i believe is true and idk what happens after that. But what i was getting at was that even if god doesnt exist the guidlines that were made still help people stay moral not to murder or steal etc.
Objection!!!! thats baseless conjecture!!
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc

So your argument is this: Since theists have the encouragement to do good (by getting into heaven) and a clear idea of what will happen if they do bad (go to hell), they will not commit immoral acts as much as someone who is amoral?

So, essentially, since theists have to be bribed into not committing immoral acts, that is somehow safer as a guideline?

*slams head against keyboard*

Having morals does NOT ensure moral actions. Just like being amoral does NOT mean you will go around killing babies, eating old people, raping horses and stealing from churches.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 11:17:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:15:52 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:10:02 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc

Theist leaders choose their moral guidelines. Is that not true?

The Aztecs believed murder (sacrifice to the Gods) was moral. Are their Gods immoral, or do they not exist? If it is the latter, why?

To Theists - does God invent "moral guidelines" or does he follow moral guidelines independent of him?

No No im not even implying god at all, you see even if god doesn't exist , what end does it change? nothing at all, ill just die nothing i believe is true and idk what happens after that. But what i was getting at was that even if god doesnt exist the guidlines that were made still help people stay moral not to murder or steal etc.

I'll agree with this. A lot of good things have been the by-products of religion (I did a debate on this).

I would also say, however, that religion causes many bad things.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
joshuaXlawyer
Posts: 45
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1/5/2011 11:17:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:15:52 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:10:02 PM, M.Torres wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc

Theist leaders choose their moral guidelines. Is that not true?

The Aztecs believed murder (sacrifice to the Gods) was moral. Are their Gods immoral, or do they not exist? If it is the latter, why?

To Theists - does God invent "moral guidelines" or does he follow moral guidelines independent of him?

No No im not even implying god at all, you see even if god doesn't exist , what end does it change? nothing at all, ill just die nothing i believe is true and idk what happens after that. But what i was getting at was that even if god doesnt exist the guidlines that were made still help people stay moral not to murder or steal etc.
Why bring up a dead religion like that? aztechs? I said most religions not all had a moral guidline
Objection!!!! thats baseless conjecture!!
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 11:18:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:

Having morals does NOT ensure moral actions. Just like being amoral does NOT mean you will go around killing babies, eating old people, raping horses and stealing from churches.

SERIOUSLY. I want a "like" button!
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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1/5/2011 11:20:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:17:52 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Why bring up a dead religion like that? aztechs? I said most religions not all had a moral guidline

It is simply one religion that has existed that advocates murder as moral. My point was to show religions do not always equal moral, simply because they are religious.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 11:21:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:08:52 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But, on the Theist side of this (most Christians) there are still do and do not.

Atheists can have clear guidelines of what to do and not do. Religion isn't the only source for morality.

Whether you call them morals or not. I'm a border line moral nihilists in a very very vague sense.

How so?

But there are still clear things that I can do and what I can't do, and the are out of my control or choice (rough statement).

Sure, even as a moral nihilist I won't do some things. However, it's not morality which dictates this.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
joshuaXlawyer
Posts: 45
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1/5/2011 11:23:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But yet they chose to be objectivists, or relativists, or nihilist so in the end they do chose. All i was getting at in the point was the rules of religion most religions have a guide line or something similar to one. Atheist don't meaning the could commit immoral acts because they believe it to be ok. immoral as in murder,theft,rape,lieing everyone lies once in there life tho. etc

So your argument is this: Since theists have the encouragement to do good (by getting into heaven) and a clear idea of what will happen if they do bad (go to hell), they will not commit immoral acts as much as someone who is amoral?

So, essentially, since theists have to be bribed into not committing immoral acts, that is somehow safer as a guideline?

*slams head against keyboard*

Having morals does NOT ensure moral actions. Just like being amoral does NOT mean you will go around killing babies, eating old people, raping horses and stealing from churches.

Lol i consider myself christain the only thing diffrent about me is im a consequentalist even if is a bribe if it help ensure or improve moral act i don't really care. But i would say it ensure more than no guide line at all chosen by the person which could be affect by numorus things, this doesnt nesscarily applie to christans more to say a religion with moral guide lines.
Objection!!!! thats baseless conjecture!!
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 11:27:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:23:26 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Lol i consider myself christain the only thing diffrent about me is im a consequentalist even if is a bribe if it help ensure or improve moral act i don't really care. But i would say it ensure more than no guide line at all chosen by the person which could be affect by numorus things, this doesnt nesscarily applie to christans more to say a religion with moral guide lines.

So, think about this....

If you were NOT Christian, would you go on a psychotic rampage? Would you commit "immoral" acts?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/5/2011 11:30:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:
Having morals does NOT ensure moral actions. Just like being amoral does NOT mean you will go around killing babies, eating old people, raping horses and stealing from churches.

I understand what you're getting at, but I think this is where semantics regarding the term morality comes into play. Some people think that if you choose not to kill a baby (even if you would get away with it) that it's necessarily a moral choice, even if you try to justify your action outside of moral parameters. That said, I can't believe we're talking about this AGAIN. Another reason to be completely apathetic about this monotonous website. In short: there are plenty of atheist moral systems or standards that do not require a belief on God. Plenty of atheists do great things, while plenty of theists do abhorrent things. Plus, using God as the standard for objective morality is usually fallacious as Hell. Pun intended.
President of DDO
joshuaXlawyer
Posts: 45
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1/5/2011 11:30:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:27:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:23:26 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Lol i consider myself christain the only thing diffrent about me is im a consequentalist even if is a bribe if it help ensure or improve moral act i don't really care. But i would say it ensure more than no guide line at all chosen by the person which could be affect by numorus things, this doesnt nesscarily applie to christans more to say a religion with moral guide lines.

So, think about this....

If you were NOT Christian, would you go on a psychotic rampage? Would you commit "immoral" acts?
I don't know thats my point, religions say U have to have these set of morals as atheist do not. I could then i couldn't its only a possiblity.
Objection!!!! thats baseless conjecture!!
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 11:33:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:30:09 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:
Having morals does NOT ensure moral actions. Just like being amoral does NOT mean you will go around killing babies, eating old people, raping horses and stealing from churches.

I understand what you're getting at, but I think this is where semantics regarding the term morality comes into play.

Oh definitely. Isn't that the fun part though? xD

Some people think that if you choose not to kill a baby (even if you would get away with it) that it's necessarily a moral choice, even if you try to justify your action outside of moral parameters.

Then they're idiots. If I chose not to kill a baby because I didn't have the right tools (let's say I only had a butter knife), then that's not a moral choice and should not be labeled as such.

That said, I can't believe we're talking about this AGAIN. Another reason to be completely apathetic about this monotonous website.

I've gotten used to it... For some reason, my absence of morality comes up quite frequently on this site...

In short: there are plenty of atheist moral systems or standards that do not require a belief on God. Plenty of atheists do great things, while plenty of theists do abhorrent things. Plus, using God as the standard for objective morality is usually fallacious as Hell. Pun intended.

I agree.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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1/5/2011 11:36:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:21:16 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:08:52 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There are atheists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

Just as there can be theists who are:
- moral objectivists
- moral relativists
- moral nihilists

But, on the Theist side of this (most Christians) there are still do and do not.

Atheists can have clear guidelines of what to do and not do. Religion isn't the only source for morality.

Atheist morality comes from within, not external.

Whether you call them morals or not. I'm a border line moral nihilists in a very very vague sense.

How so?

Not sure exactly, still working on it. Along the lines if Job I'm thinking. Potter and the clay.

But there are still clear things that I can do and what I can't do, and the are out of my control or choice (rough statement).

Sure, even as a moral nihilist I won't do some things. However, it's not morality which dictates this.

Right, it is your personal choice.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 11:37:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:30:57 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:27:25 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:23:26 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:16:55 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:05:18 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Lol i consider myself christain the only thing diffrent about me is im a consequentalist even if is a bribe if it help ensure or improve moral act i don't really care. But i would say it ensure more than no guide line at all chosen by the person which could be affect by numorus things, this doesnt nesscarily applie to christans more to say a religion with moral guide lines.

So, think about this....

If you were NOT Christian, would you go on a psychotic rampage? Would you commit "immoral" acts?
I don't know thats my point, religions say U have to have these set of morals as atheist do not. I could then i couldn't its only a possiblity.

Even with that 'moral code' you could choose to kill someone. You could loose sanity and start raping choir boys. The point is, morality is merely guidelines but there's no guarantee of actions. I find it hard to believe that someone would stop trying to murder/rape/steal once they had the thought, "Dude, this is immoral."

Also, atheists who have objectivists have moral guidelines as well.

"The source or justification of a universal ethic may be thought to be, for instance, human nature, shared vulnerability to suffering, the demands of universal reason, what is common among existing moral codes, or the common mandates of religion (although it can be said that the latter is not in fact moral universalism because it may distinguish between gods and mortals)."

^ Even without religion, they will (attempt to) find an origin for morality.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Vi_Veri
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1/5/2011 11:40:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:
If im correct atheism has no religious text or any of the sort so therfore have no guide lines like the 10 commandments and etc.. So would this mean the morals of the person is determined by the person? Meaning if the think murder is moral it is according to there own religion being set by them?

There is something called society, and this thing called society makes laws. There are schizo's who are Christian and believe God is telling them to murder children. Countless people have been killed in religious wars.

Religion doesn't = good morals or people who will behave morally.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
annhasle
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1/5/2011 11:42:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:36:14 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:21:16 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:08:52 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Atheist morality comes from within, not external.

Not completely true.... Moral universalism:

"The source or justification of a universal ethic may be thought to be, for instance, human nature, shared vulnerability to suffering, the demands of universal reason, what is common among existing moral codes, or the common mandates of religion (although it can be said that the latter is not in fact moral universalism because it may distinguish between gods and mortals)."

So, even as an atheist, you could be a moral universalist and share the same moral beliefs as a theist.

Not sure exactly, still working on it. Along the lines if Job I'm thinking. Potter and the clay.

Hmm... Good luck with that. I can't see you ever being close to a moral nihilist... Especially since you've gone through 'life changing' experiences which reinforced your sense of morality.


Right, it is your personal choice.

For me, yes. For others, it might be mandated by their own code of ethics which exists independent of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality, or other distinguishing features.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
jharry
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1/5/2011 11:49:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:42:20 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:36:14 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:21:16 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:08:52 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Atheist morality comes from within, not external.

Not completely true.... Moral universalism:

"The source or justification of a universal ethic may be thought to be, for instance, human nature, shared vulnerability to suffering, the demands of universal reason, what is common among existing moral codes, or the common mandates of religion (although it can be said that the latter is not in fact moral universalism because it may distinguish between gods and mortals)."

There is the fuzzy part for me. It really isn't clear.

So, even as an atheist, you could be a moral universalist and share the same moral beliefs as a theist.

Not sure exactly, still working on it. Along the lines if Job I'm thinking. Potter and the clay.

Hmm... Good luck with that. I can't see you ever being close to a moral nihilist... Especially since you've gone through 'life changing' experiences which reinforced your sense of morality.

The Potter and the clay are a base line for my personal experiences so I don't really see an issue. But that is a personal journey, and in the end it won't really matter one way or the other so it really isn't worth talking about.


Right, it is your personal choice.

For me, yes. For others, it might be mandated by their own code of ethics which exists independent of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality, or other distinguishing features.

Exactly.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/5/2011 11:52:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:49:23 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:42:20 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:36:14 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:21:16 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 11:08:52 PM, jharry wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:54:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/5/2011 10:49:00 PM, joshuaXlawyer wrote:

Atheist morality comes from within, not external.

Not completely true.... Moral universalism:

"The source or justification of a universal ethic may be thought to be, for instance, human nature, shared vulnerability to suffering, the demands of universal reason, what is common among existing moral codes, or the common mandates of religion (although it can be said that the latter is not in fact moral universalism because it may distinguish between gods and mortals)."

There is the fuzzy part for me. It really isn't clear.

That's your problem? You are bothered by a 'may be' but you have complete faith in God who may exist? Come on....

So, even as an atheist, you could be a moral universalist and share the same moral beliefs as a theist.

Not sure exactly, still working on it. Along the lines if Job I'm thinking. Potter and the clay.

Hmm... Good luck with that. I can't see you ever being close to a moral nihilist... Especially since you've gone through 'life changing' experiences which reinforced your sense of morality.

The Potter and the clay are a base line for my personal experiences so I don't really see an issue. But that is a personal journey, and in the end it won't really matter one way or the other so it really isn't worth talking about.

Okay.


Right, it is your personal choice.

For me, yes. For others, it might be mandated by their own code of ethics which exists independent of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality, or other distinguishing features.

Exactly.

Yes, it's their own code. But the code is UNIVERSAL and the SAME for each person.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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1/6/2011 12:23:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/5/2011 11:40:25 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
There is something called society, and this thing called society makes laws. There are schizo's who are Christian and believe God is telling them to murder children. Countless people have been killed in religious wars.

Religion doesn't = good morals or people who will behave morally.

Indeed. http://atheistsnever.com...