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Morals?

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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1/17/2011 9:42:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
How should morals be defined in politics?
Should the government be ethical and moral?
How do you define the morality of a government?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/17/2011 9:57:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 9:42:57 AM, comoncents wrote:
How should undefined be defined in politics?
Should the government be wotsit and thingamabob?
How do you define the personal opinion of a government?

I don't understand your questions.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/17/2011 10:04:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Secular Humanism.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/17/2011 10:07:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 10:05:15 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:04:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Secular Humanism.

Nah. Moral nihilism, dawg.

Moral Nihilism Dog would be a strange sort of superhero.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/17/2011 10:14:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 10:10:24 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:07:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:05:15 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:04:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Secular Humanism.

Nah. Moral nihilism, dawg.

Moral Nihilism Dog would be a strange sort of superhero.

Moral Nihilism Bear.

I thought it was pedo-bear.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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1/17/2011 2:08:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 10:14:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:10:24 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:07:56 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:05:15 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:04:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Secular Humanism.

Nah. Moral nihilism, dawg.

Moral Nihilism Dog would be a strange sort of superhero.

Moral Nihilism Bear.

I thought it was pedo-bear.

Second cousins, I think.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/17/2011 2:40:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Personally, I'd rather live in a secular humanist run country than a moral nihilist country. The truth of the outlook is irrelevant to me in this case.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/17/2011 2:42:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 2:40:25 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Personally, I'd rather live in a secular humanist run country than a moral nihilist country. The truth of the outlook is irrelevant to me in this case.

Why?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/17/2011 2:51:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't really understand how a government that bases its laws on moral nihilism could effectively protect the rights of the people it governs. You are just asking for an opportunistic government that appeases the people when it is weak, and subjugates them when it is strong.

It sounds dangerous. At least in a government that bases it's morality on secular humanism, you have justification for something like a bill of rights, which is inherently humanist in nature.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/17/2011 2:51:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 2:42:27 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/17/2011 2:40:25 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Personally, I'd rather live in a secular humanist run country than a moral nihilist country. The truth of the outlook is irrelevant to me in this case.

Why?

A secular humanist country would likely have the concept of inalienable rights, a moral nhilist country almost certainly would not.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/17/2011 2:53:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
CN and I are riding the same wavelength. B.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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1/18/2011 7:51:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 2:51:01 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't really understand how a government that bases its laws on moral nihilism could effectively protect the rights of the people it governs. You are just asking for an opportunistic government that appeases the people when it is weak, and subjugates them when it is strong.

It sounds dangerous. At least in a government that bases it's morality on secular humanism, you have justification for something like a bill of rights, which is inherently humanist in nature.

Ann is an anarchist, so I don't suggest using the "abusive government" argument. You will lose.
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/18/2011 9:40:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've had many a lul thinking about government enforced anarchy.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/18/2011 10:02:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 9:40:36 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've had many a lul thinking about government enforced anarchy.

Government enforced anarchy is a contradiction.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/18/2011 10:05:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 7:51:29 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 2:51:01 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I don't really understand how a government that bases its laws on moral nihilism could effectively protect the rights of the people it governs. You are just asking for an opportunistic government that appeases the people when it is weak, and subjugates them when it is strong.

It sounds dangerous. At least in a government that bases it's morality on secular humanism, you have justification for something like a bill of rights, which is inherently humanist in nature.

Ann is an anarchist, so I don't suggest using the "abusive government" argument. You will lose.

And, you know, it can be argued that anarchy is the only form of government that always works the way it's supposed to. :)
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/18/2011 10:09:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 10:02:44 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/18/2011 9:40:36 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've had many a lul thinking about government enforced anarchy.

Government enforced anarchy is a contradiction.

I know, that is why it is funny.

Anarchy is either impossible or already happening.

You can not avoid government. A family is a government, a gang is a government, a religion is a government.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/18/2011 10:16:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 10:09:23 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 1/18/2011 10:02:44 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/18/2011 9:40:36 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've had many a lul thinking about government enforced anarchy.

Government enforced anarchy is a contradiction.

I know, that is why it is funny.

Sure...

Anarchy is either impossible or already happening.

Lol. What a black and white fallacy... If there is a chance that it is already happening, then it is not "impossible" but perhaps improbable. However, I would be willing to debate anarchy anytime and it's benefits for society.

You can not avoid government. A family is a government, a gang is a government, a religion is a government.

It's not about avoiding government, it's about abolishing government. A family is not a government since they do not have control over your actions with aggressive coercion regardless of your age or actions. A gang could be construed as a government but once again, the only major similarity is the control of fear by the use of firearms. And religion is not a form of government in the sense that it doesn't physically restrict actions but uses brainwashing/far of punishment as a mental erosion. There might be some similarities but government is a special brand of illogicalness and coercion.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/18/2011 10:21:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 10:05:15 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/17/2011 10:04:00 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Secular Humanism.

Nah. Moral nihilism, dawg.

Secular Humanism is a life stance that focuses on the way human beings can lead happy and functional lives. How does this inherently conflict with moral nihilism? It's a philosophy that espouses reason, ethics, and the search for human fulfillment, and specifically rejects supernatural and religious dogma as the basis of morality. To me, humanism is more about normative ethics than meta-ethics.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/18/2011 10:22:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 10:09:23 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Anarchy is either impossible or already happening.

Yeah lol ann's right... this is a blatant fallacy.
President of DDO
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/18/2011 10:22:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 10:16:15 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/18/2011 10:09:23 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 1/18/2011 10:02:44 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 1/18/2011 9:40:36 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I've had many a lul thinking about government enforced anarchy.

Government enforced anarchy is a contradiction.

I know, that is why it is funny.

Sure...

Anarchy is either impossible or already happening.

Lol. What a black and white fallacy... If there is a chance that it is already happening, then it is not "impossible" but perhaps improbable. However, I would be willing to debate anarchy anytime and it's benefits for society.

Isn't a black and white fallacy at all. Either it is impossible, or we already live in anarchy, and the control is just an illusion.


You can not avoid government. A family is a government, a gang is a government, a religion is a government.

It's not about avoiding government, it's about abolishing government.

Which ironically can't be done without.... a government....

A family is not a government since they do not have control over your actions with aggressive coercion regardless of your age or actions.

They don't?

A gang could be construed as a government but once again, the only major similarity is the control of fear by the
use of firearms.

It's a form of government. A crappy form of government, but a government none the less.

And religion is not a form of government in the sense that it doesn't physically restrict actions but uses brainwashing/far of punishment as a mental erosion. There might be some similarities but government is a special brand of illogicalness and coercion.

As long as you have priests at the top who people listen to, it is a government.

If there is no church, then it gets fuzzier.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/18/2011 10:24:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/18/2011 10:22:23 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Isn't a black and white fallacy at all. Either it is impossible, or we already live in anarchy, and the control is just an illusion.

Yes it is. It's called the false-dilemma fallacy.
President of DDO
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/18/2011 10:26:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
By all means, state the additional possibilities, because anarchy seems mighty impossible to me.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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1/18/2011 10:26:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
CosmicAlfonzo, define what you think "government" means.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

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http://lewrockwell.com...

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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/18/2011 10:30:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
A group of people that has some type of organization.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp