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"Why?"

R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Philosophy101
Posts: 144
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11/24/2016 3:27:40 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

When I was younger the answer I would give to the question of why is because it can. Morality aside even, perhaps there is more to it than that. Why did the universe play out the way it did? Perhaps there are answeres to this why question, if we look outside our egocentricity. Why the solar system formed, for example, could be that gravity exists in this region we call the universe. Why gravity exists may even have yet another answer, one I am not able to fathom. The reason life exists is because chemistry was able to fluctuate into a biological systems. Why this transformation occurred can be answered by looking at possible ways chemistry can become life. Yet our witnessing it can be in at least part explained by the anthropology principle. Why questions can and often do have answers; I think the problem of existentially pointing to why is simply a game of chance--we are here because we can. Maybe there is no deeper meaning for our existence; however as rational beings we seek to find answers to this very real question.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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11/25/2016 11:36:05 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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11/26/2016 1:55:53 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 11:36:05 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...

Heaps times 2.
I've spent close to 3 years, trying to invent EAT.

I also like thinking about inventing carrot cake .
I'm pretty sure I've worked out how a person stumbled on drinking cow milk.
All aboard the thought train , why , why, why is the chugging.
I'm never going to stop asking questions.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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11/26/2016 2:53:13 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/26/2016 1:55:53 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...

Heaps times 2.
I've spent close to 3 years, trying to invent EAT.

Is that an acronym?

I also like thinking about inventing carrot cake .
I'm pretty sure I've worked out how a person stumbled on drinking cow milk.
All aboard the thought train , why , why, why is the chugging.
I'm never going to stop asking questions.

I enjoy pretending I am traveling back in time to an earlier period in history. I will show up when physics was in its infancy and debate the scholars of the time, up-ending their beliefs with my futuristic wisdom on subjects like astronomy, electricity, etc.

Oh man I sleep like a baby when I think about that in bed. Puts me right to sleep.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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11/26/2016 3:27:34 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/25/2016 11:36:05 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...

Lol, tried and failed, many times. Never been able to clear my head quite that well.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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11/26/2016 8:59:51 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?
If there is a creator, then why is answerable. If there isnt, then why is irrelevant.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/27/2016 1:41:01 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.
The sum total of your post, nothing. Yet you somehow have convinced yourself that something can happen. Something could happen to nothing, it would remain nothing
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/27/2016 1:41:56 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 9:08:08 AM, keithprosser wrote:
Actually, asking yourself the question 'Why not?' often leads to having much more fun! :)
Why not keep your thougts to yourself.....bwhahaha...jk
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/27/2016 1:43:24 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/25/2016 11:36:05 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...
Really? Seems like one thing for sure is you wouldn't be sitting and thinking.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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11/27/2016 3:36:32 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 1:43:24 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...
Really? Seems like one thing for sure is you wouldn't be sitting and thinking.

So you mean me personally? Or are you saying that the act of sitting and thinking precludes the ability to apprehend nothingness...
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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11/27/2016 4:23:37 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 8:59:51 PM, janesix wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?
If there is a creator, then why is answerable. If there isnt, then why is irrelevant.

Well we are created, therefore there must be a creator. I don't believe in a god in the Christian sense because in it the creator is separate from the created. If consciousness is, as I believe, the foundation of reality, then there must be a reason that I opened up these four dimensions and separated energy into positive and negative, bathing myself in one of them (of course I will call the one i use "positive" because ego is apparently one of the few fundamental prerogatives of being intelligent).

We open up dimensions, fill it with energy tightly rolled up into packets of matter, and then play out a short meaningless (on the grand scale) existence. Why? Is it our feelings that make it worth it? Like energy, feelings exist as positive and negative, and like energy, they both always seem to cancel out equally. One thing is apparent, and that is that the heavens are zero. Existence involves creating by borrowing, using negative and positive to create meaning. We are like a celestial bank account that is overdrawn... Anyway, is it our feelings that make this worth it? We decide we will experience fear, hatred, and dread in order to get a taste of happiness and excitement. That's the best answer I have so far, but it is not one I am satisfied with.

It seems like this journey ought to have meaning of some sort, more than just indulgence of our emotions. That meaning could only be enlightenment, for what else would be a worthy goal? Does enightenment lead one to heaven?
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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11/27/2016 10:29:51 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 1:41:01 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.
The sum total of your post, nothing. Yet you somehow have convinced yourself that something can happen. Something could happen to nothing, it would remain nothing

I haven't convinced myself of anything, it's just idle musings. You want to disagree with my musings, have at it. Just don't expect me to care if all you have to offer is assertions.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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11/27/2016 9:32:38 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 10:29:51 AM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/27/2016 1:41:01 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.
The sum total of your post, nothing. Yet you somehow have convinced yourself that something can happen. Something could happen to nothing, it would remain nothing

I haven't convinced myself of anything, it's just idle musings. You want to disagree with my musings, have at it. Just don't expect me to care if all you have to offer is assertions.
"Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen."
Your idle musing. My response isn't the assertion, yours is. Which has has not one scintilla of an understanding of what nothing is defined as. "My assertion", lmao, way to deflect.
mrsatan
Posts: 429
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11/28/2016 12:53:58 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/27/2016 9:32:38 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/27/2016 10:29:51 AM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/27/2016 1:41:01 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

Logically speaking, I don't see how there can be an answer to the question "Why is the something, rather than nothing?". "Why" implies that there is some sort of purpose to begin with, which would require something in the first place. So there can be no "why" there is something rather than nothing. There just is something, period.

---

Alternatively, if we look at "why" as a reason without intent, inevitability might qualify as a why there is something rather than nothing. For true nothingness would entail no restraints, no prerequisites, nothing to prevent anything from happening. Admittedly, nothing to encourage it either, but there would be no need for encouragement. There can't be a logical precursor in a non-place, where there is no logic.

Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

P.S.- There's nothing that'll make you feel like a rambling lunatic quite so well as trying to talk about nothing.
The sum total of your post, nothing. Yet you somehow have convinced yourself that something can happen. Something could happen to nothing, it would remain nothing

I haven't convinced myself of anything, it's just idle musings. You want to disagree with my musings, have at it. Just don't expect me to care if all you have to offer is assertions.
"Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen."
Your idle musing. My response isn't the assertion, yours is. Which has has not one scintilla of an understanding of what nothing is defined as. "My assertion", lmao, way to deflect.

They're both assertions. The difference being that mine is preceded by the reasoning behind it, whilst yours is not. You're welcome to try again, third times a charm after all.
To say one has free will, to have chosen other than they did, is to say they have will over their will... Will over the will they have over their will... Will over the will they have over the will they have over their will, etc... It's utter nonsense.
keithprosser
Posts: 2,057
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11/28/2016 1:30:18 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 3:34:43 PM, mrsatan wrote:
Essentially, if there were nothing, something is inevitable because anything could happen.

Ah, the old 'nothing comes of nothing' problem. Apparently the BB means the universe expands, but it isn't expanding into any surrounding space like a balloon expands into regular space. It is space itself that gets bigger, and there is nothing - very literally nothing - outside it. Wibble. Does not compute!

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the BB or universal expansion is wrong, or nonsense. I am saying that somethings are beyond human (well, this human) powers to visualise and comprehend.

I expect that one day - fairly soon - someone will work out either that something did come from nothing after all, or there is some other wrinkle no one has imagined that gets around it.

Unfortunately I fear that to understand it will require spending 6 years getting a PhD so the option of reading the first three verses of Genesis instead will remain a popular choice.
GrimlyF
Posts: 100
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11/30/2016 3:33:37 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/26/2016 2:53:13 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 11/26/2016 1:55:53 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

Have you ever sat and tried to think about what it would be like if the universe (and nothing at all) ever existed? It's amazing...

Heaps times 2.
I've spent close to 3 years, trying to invent EAT.

Is that an acronym?

I also like thinking about inventing carrot cake .
I'm pretty sure I've worked out how a person stumbled on drinking cow milk.
All aboard the thought train , why , why, why is the chugging.
I'm never going to stop asking questions.

I enjoy pretending I am traveling back in time to an earlier period in history. I will show up when physics was in its infancy and debate the scholars of the time, up-ending their beliefs with my futuristic wisdom on subjects like astronomy, electricity, etc.

Oh man I sleep like a baby when I think about that in bed. Puts me right to sleep.

"Travelling back in time". I give you about 2hrs until a big crowd, with pitchforks and torches, led by a catholic priest come to call.
See the happy moron: he doesn't give a damn:I wish I were a moron:My God! perhaps I am!. Anonymous.
GrimlyF
Posts: 100
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11/30/2016 3:40:54 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

"Why" is the most important question that can be asked of anything. Far from being unanswerable it leads to "Who,What,Where,When and How" all of which are answerable.
See the happy moron: he doesn't give a damn:I wish I were a moron:My God! perhaps I am!. Anonymous.
MyFather
Posts: 11
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12/1/2016 9:10:49 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/24/2016 3:07:58 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I believe that "why?" is the most fundamental, most unanswerable question in the universe. We know somewhat what "what?", "who?", "when?", "where?", and "how?" are about... We can't answer them completely of course but at least we have something to go on when addressing them. But "why?" is truly enigmatic, as is the nature of consciousness. Is it infinitely unanswerable?

I have the complete answer for you but only if you're chosen to believe it.