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The mind's right to harm the body

Indophile
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1/27/2011 1:56:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As far as can be seen, the body does everything to keep the brain well fed and working. So isn't it imperative that the brain recirpocate?

Some examples where this is not being done. The brain's addiction to nicotine causing damage to lungs, the brain's liking for alcohol damaging the liver, the brain's aversion to physical exercise causing the muscles to weaken, etc.

Is there a case to be made here?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
LoremIpsum
Posts: 11
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1/27/2011 2:15:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No... The mind tells the body what to do. The body is simply a tool that your mind uses to achieve things. As in, your mind tells your body to take care of you. To try and make this case would be to try to assume that the body has an individual mind of its own that deserves some sort of compensation from the brain.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 2:19:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
lol
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 2:25:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 2:24:34 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
The body isn't sentient it doesn't have the will to take action.

lol yes it is.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 2:28:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I mean the brain is part of the body...

sure, he's separated them to talk about the "body" without the brain.. and on that count, yeah you're right.

this whole thread is funny
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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1/27/2011 2:32:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 2:28:32 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I mean the brain is part of the body...

sure, he's separated them to talk about the "body" without the brain.. and on that count, yeah you're right.

this whole thread is funny

Mind-body dichotomy. His use of the term body refers to the "corpus" body aspect to sentience. I was just playing along so yeah, exactly.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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1/27/2011 2:33:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 2:28:32 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I mean the brain is part of the body...

sure, he's separated them to talk about the "body" without the brain.. and on that count, yeah you're right.

this whole thread is funny

Yeah, it's kinda funny. It's just a very roundabout metaphor as to how for an efficiently running system, a kind of absolute dictatorship (read, a rigid chain of command) seems to be necessary. Like the human body. Or the military :)

For if you see, the spinal cord does have the ability to control our motor responses, yet it's subjugated under the brain.

So, is there still a case to be made here?
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 3:11:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Does the body care that the brain is abusing it???

does it matter to "the body"??

if the brain took good care of the body... which one would benefit??? the brain.. or the body?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 4:01:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 3:11:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Does the body care that the brain is abusing it???

does it matter to "the body"??

if the brain took good care of the body... which one would benefit??? the brain.. or the body?

correct answer:
the body (if you're not including the brain) doesn't care one whit what happens to it.

so... you're not doing it a disservice by "harming" it.

the only thing that cares if your body gets shittilly out of shape is you (your brain!)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/27/2011 4:08:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 4:01:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 3:11:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Does the body care that the brain is abusing it???

does it matter to "the body"??

if the brain took good care of the body... which one would benefit??? the brain.. or the body?

correct answer:
the body (if you're not including the brain) doesn't care one whit what happens to it.

so... you're not doing it a disservice by "harming" it.

the only thing that cares if your body gets shittilly out of shape is you (your brain!)

Sure it does, do the individual cells care about survival? Yes.

Although we are going to some extreme stretching.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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1/27/2011 4:26:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 1:56:51 PM, Indophile wrote:
As far as can be seen, the body does everything to keep the brain well fed and working. So isn't it imperative that the brain recirpocate?

Some examples where this is not being done. The brain's addiction to nicotine causing damage to lungs, the brain's liking for alcohol damaging the liver, the brain's aversion to physical exercise causing the muscles to weaken, etc.

Is there a case to be made here?

Maybe everyone's body should sue for inequal treatment?
Then the body will have to work more (physical, or sitting around an office longer) and suffer, for the brains to have money to pay back the bodies....
that wont work so lets just use the death penalty....
Doubt the bodies will live long >.>
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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1/27/2011 4:47:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 4:01:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 3:11:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Does the body care that the brain is abusing it???

does it matter to "the body"??

if the brain took good care of the body... which one would benefit??? the brain.. or the body?

correct answer:
the body (if you're not including the brain) doesn't care one whit what happens to it.
No. It's ignostic to the very concept of abuse.

so... you're not doing it a disservice by "harming" it.
True

the only thing that cares if your body gets shittilly out of shape is you (your brain!)
Well, not really. Brain =/= mind.

Question, Are you partly your preconscious+unconscious superego?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 5:09:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 4:08:09 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure it does, do the individual cells care about survival?

no.

Yes.

no.

Although we are going to some extreme stretching.

stretching to the point where you're not even stretching it...
You're just wrong.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/27/2011 5:12:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:09:50 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 4:08:09 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure it does, do the individual cells care about survival?

no.

Yes.

no.

Although we are going to some extreme stretching.

stretching to the point where you're not even stretching it...
You're just wrong.

Cells act in a way to promote their survival, such as maintain needed resources to stay alive and keep doing their duties.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 5:17:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 4:47:23 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 1/27/2011 4:01:49 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 3:11:02 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Does the body care that the brain is abusing it???

does it matter to "the body"??

if the brain took good care of the body... which one would benefit??? the brain.. or the body?

correct answer:
the body (if you're not including the brain) doesn't care one whit what happens to it.
No. It's ignostic to the very concept of abuse.

so... you're not doing it a disservice by "harming" it.
True

the only thing that cares if your body gets shittilly out of shape is you (your brain!)
Well, not really. Brain =/= mind.

sure.. your mind resides within your brain :)

your brain might have other things going on too!

Question, Are you partly your preconscious+unconscious superego?

Many things go into what I am... my body.. and any/all preconscious/unconscious/conscious functions included.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 5:18:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:12:57 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/27/2011 5:09:50 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 4:08:09 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure it does, do the individual cells care about survival?

no.

Cells act in a way to promote their survival, such as maintain needed resources to stay alive and keep doing their duties.

they don't care... and they "act" as much a volcano "acts" when it spews lava
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 5:23:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:17:38 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
sure.. your mind resides within your brain :)

and.. for all you dualistic leaning folks..

I mean your mind exists through your brain..
not that the two separate things share some special relationship.. or something..
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/27/2011 5:29:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:18:55 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 5:12:57 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/27/2011 5:09:50 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 4:08:09 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure it does, do the individual cells care about survival?

no.

Cells act in a way to promote their survival, such as maintain needed resources to stay alive and keep doing their duties.

they don't care... and they "act" as much a volcano "acts" when it spews lava

Spewing lava is an action. Therefore, the volcano is acting.

Haven't you seen Osmosis Jones?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 5:33:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:29:11 PM, OreEle wrote:
Spewing lava is an action. Therefore, the volcano is acting.

and volcanos don't care.. which is what you were suggesting the "action" of a cell implies.

Haven't you seen Osmosis Jones?

I think part of it.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/27/2011 5:37:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:33:14 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 1/27/2011 5:29:11 PM, OreEle wrote:
Spewing lava is an action. Therefore, the volcano is acting.

and volcanos don't care.. which is what you were suggesting the "action" of a cell implies.

care -"prefer or wish to do something." There are several definitions, but it only needs to satisfy one of them.

cells prefer to stay alive, which is why they take action to ensure it, as mentioned. Since they prefer to stay alive, that means they care about staying alive.


Haven't you seen Osmosis Jones?

I think part of it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 5:39:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 5:37:20 PM, OreEle wrote:
cells prefer to stay alive,

No they don't.

which is why they take action to ensure it,

No, that's not why they "act" as they do.

Since they prefer to stay alive, that means they care about staying alive.

they don't do either.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/27/2011 7:22:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 6:30:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Yeah...cells don't have preferences.

and why not? Everything that is living has preferences, ideally in the living environment. Plants prefer different types of fertilizer and sunlight amount. Cells prefer different nutrients (depending on the cells and what their functions are).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 7:49:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 7:22:46 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/27/2011 6:30:35 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Yeah...cells don't have preferences.

and why not? Everything that is living has preferences,

nope.

ideally in the living environment. Plants prefer different types of fertilizer and sunlight amount.
nope.

Cells prefer different nutrients (depending on the cells and what their functions are).
nope.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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1/27/2011 7:55:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Using the word "care" implies a conscious interest which cells do not possess. Simply because they survive better in one environment does not mean they "prefer" that environment -- it's necessary for their survival but either way, they don't have the sentience required for "cares".
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Ore_Ele
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1/27/2011 8:54:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 7:55:02 PM, annhasle wrote:
Using the word "care" implies a conscious interest which cells do not possess.

That would be an issue with assuming. The definition I put up earlier for "care" comes from the dictionary, it isn't made up.

Simply because they survive better in one environment does not mean they "prefer" that environment -- it's necessary for their survival but either way, they don't have the sentience required for "cares".

to prefer something does not require sentience. Look in any gardening book, and they'll tell you what plants "prefer" even though plants don't have sentience, it's common verbiage and well within the standard definitions of the words.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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1/27/2011 8:54:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 8:54:13 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/27/2011 7:55:02 PM, annhasle wrote:
Using the word "care" implies a conscious interest which cells do not possess.

That would be an issue with assuming. The definition I put up earlier for "care" comes from the dictionary, it isn't made up.

Simply because they survive better in one environment does not mean they "prefer" that environment -- it's necessary for their survival but either way, they don't have the sentience required for "cares".

to prefer something does not require sentience. Look in any gardening book, and they'll tell you what plants "prefer" even though plants don't have sentience, it's common verbiage and well within the standard definitions of the words.

INB4 Matt's "nope...nope...nope"
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/27/2011 8:56:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/27/2011 8:54:13 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/27/2011 7:55:02 PM, annhasle wrote:
Using the word "care" implies a conscious interest which cells do not possess.

That would be an issue with assuming. The definition I put up earlier for "care" comes from the dictionary, it isn't made up.

lol, Preference also implies a conscious interest.

or at least a sub-conscious one..

or, a general liking/disliking of things...

things which can't appreciate things... and can't be bothered by things..

Can't have preferences/cares.

Simply because they survive better in one environment does not mean they "prefer" that environment -- it's necessary for their survival but either way, they don't have the sentience required for "cares".

to prefer something does not require sentience. Look in any gardening book, and they'll tell you what plants "prefer" even though plants don't have sentience, it's common verbiage and well within the standard definitions of the words.

nope.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."