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Identity

SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/30/2011 4:58:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I see identity as the end result of all of your memories and physical interactions with the world, but if you want to get an incredibly weird view on self watch EVA . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/30/2011 6:05:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I subscribe to Buddha and Hume's identity theory.

the Buddha: "There is not a self residing in name and form, but the cooperation of the conformations produces what people call a man. Just as the word 'chariot' is but a mode of expression for axle, wheels, the chariot-body and other constituents in their proper combination, so a living being is the appearance of the groups ... as they are joined in a unit. There is no self in the carriage and there is no self in man. O bhikkhus, this doctrine is sure and an eternal truth, that there is no self outside of its parts. This self of ours which constitutes Name and Form is a combination of the groups ..., but there is no ego entity, no self in itself."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 6:52:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
ammm, i dunno if i'm talking about the same thing you are...

but with all these mechanical explanations and scary logic you'd nearly lose yourself wouldn't ya.. like i now think i'm a robot.. no more amazing than this computer sitting in front of me.. i don't even think my thoughts are my own.. i've nothing to be proud of.. i'm no better than anything else..

but all that aside..

when i'm happy, that's me happy.. when i feel anything, that's me feeling it... even if every single thing that's ever gonna happen to make me feel these feelings is predetermined, if this is all some sort of sick twisted joke or whatever you'd consider it...

it's me becuase it's me feeling it :) i'm the one who's getting the kicks! not my tormentor!

(sucks for all you lot whose destinies are taking ye down bad roads... i feel for ye)

maybe i'm slightly more amazing than this here puter :)

or maybe i shouldn't post when i'm demented?

lol..
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:07:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 6:52:50 PM, badger wrote:
ammm, i dunno if i'm talking about the same thing you are...

but with all these mechanical explanations and scary logic you'd nearly lose yourself wouldn't ya.. like i now think i'm a robot.. no more amazing than this computer sitting in front of me.. i don't even think my thoughts are my own.. i've nothing to be proud of.. i'm no better than anything else..

not that i'm taking determinism as guaranteed fact or anything like that.. but you know the way when you think about things and how they are and what you think of it.. you'd actually be thinking about the way you think it is :) ...i might still be some form of god!

it's also fun to believe because it's guilt free :} <-evil smile!

but all that aside..

when i'm happy, that's me happy.. when i feel anything, that's me feeling it... even if every single thing that's ever gonna happen to make me feel these feelings is predetermined, if this is all some sort of sick twisted joke or whatever you'd consider it...

it's me becuase it's me feeling it :) i'm the one who's getting the kicks! not my tormentor!

(sucks for all you lot whose destinies are taking ye down bad roads... i feel for ye)

maybe i'm slightly more amazing than this here puter :)

or maybe i shouldn't post when i'm demented?

lol..
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TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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1/30/2011 7:08:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 6:05:03 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I subscribe to Buddha and Hume's identity theory.

the Buddha: "There is not a self residing in name and form, but the cooperation of the conformations produces what people call a man. Just as the word 'chariot' is but a mode of expression for axle, wheels, the chariot-body and other constituents in their proper combination, so a living being is the appearance of the groups ... as they are joined in a unit. There is no self in the carriage and there is no self in man. O bhikkhus, this doctrine is sure and an eternal truth, that there is no self outside of its parts. This self of ours which constitutes Name and Form is a combination of the groups ..., but there is no ego entity, no self in itself."

aka bundle theory, which has significant ontological objections. For example, how do you account for the boundness of properties without referring to some substratum, which is the very thing you reject?
badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:11:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 7:07:58 PM, badger wrote:
At 1/30/2011 6:52:50 PM, badger wrote:
ammm, i dunno if i'm talking about the same thing you are...

but with all these mechanical explanations and scary logic you'd nearly lose yourself wouldn't ya.. like i now think i'm a robot.. no more amazing than this computer sitting in front of me.. i don't even think my thoughts are my own.. i've nothing to be proud of.. i'm no better than anything else..

not that i'm taking determinism as guaranteed fact or anything like that.. but you know the way when you think about things and how they are and what you think of it.. you'd actually be thinking about the way you think it is :) ...i might still be some form of god!

it's also fun to believe because it's guilt free :} <-evil smile!

i believe i've finished thinking about the universe and truths and all that.. i've found my god! exstacy!

lol

but all that aside..

when i'm happy, that's me happy.. when i feel anything, that's me feeling it... even if every single thing that's ever gonna happen to make me feel these feelings is predetermined, if this is all some sort of sick twisted joke or whatever you'd consider it...

it's me becuase it's me feeling it :) i'm the one who's getting the kicks! not my tormentor!

(sucks for all you lot whose destinies are taking ye down bad roads... i feel for ye)

maybe i'm slightly more amazing than this here puter :)

or maybe i shouldn't post when i'm demented?

lol..
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:12:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 7:08:43 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 1/30/2011 6:05:03 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I subscribe to Buddha and Hume's identity theory.

the Buddha: "There is not a self residing in name and form, but the cooperation of the conformations produces what people call a man. Just as the word 'chariot' is but a mode of expression for axle, wheels, the chariot-body and other constituents in their proper combination, so a living being is the appearance of the groups ... as they are joined in a unit. There is no self in the carriage and there is no self in man. O bhikkhus, this doctrine is sure and an eternal truth, that there is no self outside of its parts. This self of ours which constitutes Name and Form is a combination of the groups ..., but there is no ego entity, no self in itself."

aka bundle theory, which has significant ontological objections. For example, how do you account for the boundness of properties without referring to some substratum, which is the very thing you reject?

can ye ever talk normal? i feel excluded sometimes :(

i suppose i could blame my laziness...
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nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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1/30/2011 7:20:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Can someone list some of the theories of identity? I've never heard of any such thing... but if I were to put one forth, I would say that I believe it is entirely socially constructed and based on prior experience.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:53:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
go now and spread the word of the badger! have sex in the streets! run naked through the fields of drunken heaven!
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:54:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 7:53:05 PM, badger wrote:
go now and spread the word of the badger! have sex in the streets! run naked through the fields of drunken heaven!

..and give me all your money. because that is how it must be!
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:55:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 7:54:58 PM, badger wrote:
At 1/30/2011 7:53:05 PM, badger wrote:
go now and spread the word of the badger! have sex in the streets! run naked through the fields of drunken heaven!

..and give me all your money. because that is how it must be!

and i'll take the virgins too.
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 7:59:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 6:52:50 PM, badger wrote:
ammm, i dunno if i'm talking about the same thing you are...

but with all these mechanical explanations and scary logic you'd nearly lose yourself wouldn't ya.. like i now think i'm a robot.. no more amazing than this computer sitting in front of me.. i don't even think my thoughts are my own.. i've nothing to be proud of.. i'm no better than anything else..

but all that aside..

when i'm happy, that's me happy.. when i feel anything, that's me feeling it... even if every single thing that's ever gonna happen to make me feel these feelings is predetermined, if this is all some sort of sick twisted joke or whatever you'd consider it...

i suppose by the same reasoning my thoughts are also my own.. score! fvck you determinism!

it's me becuase it's me feeling it :) i'm the one who's getting the kicks! not my tormentor!

(sucks for all you lot whose destinies are taking ye down bad roads... i feel for ye)

maybe i'm slightly more amazing than this here puter :)

or maybe i shouldn't post when i'm demented?

lol..
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 8:13:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
determinism's having your drink spiked without you noticing, and life's the buzz than ensues, be it bad or good.. lol :) it's me who got spiked though!
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 8:17:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 8:12:14 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/30/2011 8:01:57 PM, badger wrote:
my brain's in a bit of a state. sorry cody!

Oh, I noticed. What're you on, man?

it's beautiful though, right? lol ..the cat says ____?
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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1/30/2011 8:18:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 8:17:06 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 1/30/2011 8:15:43 PM, badger wrote:
ye get me? lol

^ i love this guy, at least when he's drinking.

you might as well have left that as an absolute then lol..
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tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/30/2011 9:35:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 4:46:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
What theories of identity/self do you guys subscribe to? This is one area of philosophy in which I don't really have a theory or an opinion, so I'm open to investigation.

I've always just assumed that I'm me and I'm not not-me.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/30/2011 9:58:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 9:35:19 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 1/30/2011 4:46:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
What theories of identity/self do you guys subscribe to? This is one area of philosophy in which I don't really have a theory or an opinion, so I'm open to investigation.

I've always just assumed that I'm me and I'm not not-me.

I do think that there must be a subjective 'self' that perceives the world around it. And this leads to 2 questions: How accurate does the self perceive the world and where, exactly, is the boundary between the self and the world. It has been my experience that all theories of identity relate in some way to how you answer those 2 questions.

If our perceptions are 100% accurate then we are exactly who we think we are.
If our perceptions are 100% false then we have no idea who we really are.
If there is only the self and the world is an illusion then we are whatever we want to be.
If there is only the world and the self is an illusion then we are nobody.

I think the truth is somewhere in between.
tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/30/2011 9:59:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 9:58:18 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 1/30/2011 9:35:19 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 1/30/2011 4:46:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
What theories of identity/self do you guys subscribe to? This is one area of philosophy in which I don't really have a theory or an opinion, so I'm open to investigation.

I've always just assumed that I'm me and I'm not not-me.

I do think that there must be a subjective 'self' that perceives the world around it. And this leads to 2 questions: How accurate does the self perceive the world and where, exactly, is the boundary between the self and the world. It has been my experience that all theories of identity relate in some way to how you answer those 2 questions.

If our perceptions are 100% accurate then we are exactly who we think we are.
If our perceptions are 100% false then we have no idea who we really are.
If there is only the self and the world is an illusion then we are whatever we want to be.
If there is only the world and the self is an illusion then we are nobody.

I think the truth is somewhere in between.

Honestly though, I'm much more interested in secret identities :)
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/30/2011 10:09:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 9:58:18 PM, tigg13 wrote:
I do think that there must be a subjective 'self' that perceives the world around it. And this leads to 2 questions: How accurate does the self perceive the world and where, exactly, is the boundary between the self and the world. It has been my experience that all theories of identity relate in some way to how you answer those 2 questions.

If our perceptions are 100% accurate then we are exactly who we think we are.
If our perceptions are 100% false then we have no idea who we really are.
If there is only the self and the world is an illusion then we are whatever we want to be.
If there is only the world and the self is an illusion then we are nobody.

That one.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tigg13
Posts: 302
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1/30/2011 10:32:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 10:09:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/30/2011 9:58:18 PM, tigg13 wrote:
I do think that there must be a subjective 'self' that perceives the world around it. And this leads to 2 questions: How accurate does the self perceive the world and where, exactly, is the boundary between the self and the world. It has been my experience that all theories of identity relate in some way to how you answer those 2 questions.

If our perceptions are 100% accurate then we are exactly who we think we are.
If our perceptions are 100% false then we have no idea who we really are.
If there is only the self and the world is an illusion then we are whatever we want to be.
If there is only the world and the self is an illusion then we are nobody.

That one.

Who said that?!!!!
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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1/31/2011 1:17:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/30/2011 9:35:19 PM, tigg13 wrote:
At 1/30/2011 4:46:23 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
What theories of identity/self do you guys subscribe to? This is one area of philosophy in which I don't really have a theory or an opinion, so I'm open to investigation.

I've always just assumed that I'm me and I'm not not-me.

You do realize that contradictions don't exist, right? You can't be you and not-you at the same time.