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Experience trumps logic.

innomen
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2/7/2011 12:56:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have often thought of this. I have never been one to believe one way or another in ghosts. I've been far more of a skeptic than anything else, but i never have said 'no never to much'. In 2006 we moved into our new house, and it was the week between Christmas and New Years, and being in the Boston area it was quite cold. We moved everything that we could in, and went to bed in our new bedroom. In the middle of the night, perhaps around 1:30 AM i heard very distinctly a woman crying, sort of moaning. Now i wasn't afraid at all, and thought there must be an explanation; i must be dreaming, so i woke up Carlos next to me to verify what i was hearing. I tell you they were very clear sounds that came from the closet, or at least that area, and he heard them too, and was a lot less calm than i was. The windows were quite closed, along with storm windows so there was nothing coming from the outside. IT was not a sound like a machine or something like the heat or some explainable option - it was definitely a woman crying, sort of moaning. OUr neighbor told us that the previous owner was a very elderly lady that died in that room from anorexia.

The point here is, i really don't believe too much in ghosts, and although i remain skeptical, there is direct evidence that i experienced that i cannot explain. I have retained that experience and it may have slightly opened my skepticism a bit, but that's about all. It does remain an unexplained experience, but one that i cannot dismiss.

If you experience something that goes contrary to your beliefs is your mind closed to alternative options? Does the existence of the experience trump your logic and reason which has been based on study and learning?

Just wondering....your thoughts.
Jarjar3000
Posts: 273
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2/7/2011 1:02:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Very interesting story, Now it depends what you perceive as truth, What you have learned to be true, or what you have seen to be true, or in your case heard.
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
innomen
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2/7/2011 1:04:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 1:02:43 PM, Jarjar3000 wrote:
Very interesting story, Now it depends what you perceive as truth, What you have learned to be true, or what you have seen to be true, or in your case heard.

Which is precisely why i asked for verification on what i heard. BTW we never heard it again.
Jarjar3000
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2/7/2011 1:12:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I woulda been creeped out I must say, I personally go with what I experience, Man is constantly changing, their theories and ideas and even their perceived facts are always in a state of fluctuation. But if you have experienced something than you know it is true, even if others do not.
Ohh Lord How you love me, you change my heart and soul, renewing my mind into something I could never imagine, You make me strong when I am weak, you encourage me when I'm despaired, You stick by me when everyone deserts me, You are my Lord You are my God.

Charles: I'm not a Christian because I'm afraid of hell, I'm a Christian because I love Jesus.

Geolaureate: The Pope
He looks like a Sith lord, I don't trust him.

Charles0103: Just like my God, my faith won't change.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/7/2011 1:12:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Even in the case of ghosts, logic still wins. A = A. Simply acknowledging that there is a ghost demonstrates that the ghost is a ghost, one of the three laws of logic.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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2/7/2011 1:18:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 12:56:24 PM, innomen wrote:
I have often thought of this. I have never been one to believe one way or another in ghosts. I've been far more of a skeptic than anything else, but i never have said 'no never to much'. In 2006 we moved into our new house, and it was the week between Christmas and New Years, and being in the Boston area it was quite cold. We moved everything that we could in, and went to bed in our new bedroom. In the middle of the night, perhaps around 1:30 AM i heard very distinctly a woman crying, sort of moaning. Now i wasn't afraid at all, and thought there must be an explanation; i must be dreaming, so i woke up Carlos next to me to verify what i was hearing. I tell you they were very clear sounds that came from the closet, or at least that area, and he heard them too, and was a lot less calm than i was. The windows were quite closed, along with storm windows so there was nothing coming from the outside. IT was not a sound like a machine or something like the heat or some explainable option - it was definitely a woman crying, sort of moaning. OUr neighbor told us that the previous owner was a very elderly lady that died in that room from anorexia.

The point here is, i really don't believe too much in ghosts, and although i remain skeptical, there is direct evidence that i experienced that i cannot explain. I have retained that experience and it may have slightly opened my skepticism a bit, but that's about all. It does remain an unexplained experience, but one that i cannot dismiss.

If you experience something that goes contrary to your beliefs is your mind closed to alternative options? Does the existence of the experience trump your logic and reason which has been based on study and learning?

Just wondering....your thoughts.

There are stories like this all over the world, and they really do make one wonder. I don't believe that ghosts exist, simply as souls of dead humans. But, can God make something like that appear to happen? Coming from a theist, I seem pretty biased. But I think that may be the case.

There is definitely no apparent purpose for you to hear the moaning and crying. Let me ask this question before I continue: did the moaning SOUND like an "elderly" anorexic lady, or just a lady?
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
innomen
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2/7/2011 1:31:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 1:18:27 PM, m93samman wrote:
At 2/7/2011 12:56:24 PM, innomen wrote:
I have often thought of this. I have never been one to believe one way or another in ghosts. I've been far more of a skeptic than anything else, but i never have said 'no never to much'. In 2006 we moved into our new house, and it was the week between Christmas and New Years, and being in the Boston area it was quite cold. We moved everything that we could in, and went to bed in our new bedroom. In the middle of the night, perhaps around 1:30 AM i heard very distinctly a woman crying, sort of moaning. Now i wasn't afraid at all, and thought there must be an explanation; i must be dreaming, so i woke up Carlos next to me to verify what i was hearing. I tell you they were very clear sounds that came from the closet, or at least that area, and he heard them too, and was a lot less calm than i was. The windows were quite closed, along with storm windows so there was nothing coming from the outside. IT was not a sound like a machine or something like the heat or some explainable option - it was definitely a woman crying, sort of moaning. OUr neighbor told us that the previous owner was a very elderly lady that died in that room from anorexia.

The point here is, i really don't believe too much in ghosts, and although i remain skeptical, there is direct evidence that i experienced that i cannot explain. I have retained that experience and it may have slightly opened my skepticism a bit, but that's about all. It does remain an unexplained experience, but one that i cannot dismiss.

If you experience something that goes contrary to your beliefs is your mind closed to alternative options? Does the existence of the experience trump your logic and reason which has been based on study and learning?

Just wondering....your thoughts.

There are stories like this all over the world, and they really do make one wonder. I don't believe that ghosts exist, simply as souls of dead humans. But, can God make something like that appear to happen? Coming from a theist, I seem pretty biased. But I think that may be the case.

There is definitely no apparent purpose for you to hear the moaning and crying. Let me ask this question before I continue: did the moaning SOUND like an "elderly" anorexic lady, or just a lady?

Definitely an elderly lady, anorexic? I really wouldn't know.
nonentity
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2/7/2011 3:59:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
When I was in the sixth grade a friend of mine performed an exorcism on my house because weird sh*t kept happening lol

1. My sisters and I were the only ones home. We made sure to turn off the TV and went to the McDonald's down the street. We came back and the TV was on.

2. Any time I was home alone, if I was upstairs I could hear pots and pans clanging in the kitchen and if I was downstairs, I could hear the creak of someone walking upstairs.

As isolated events, these mean nothing, but then---

3. I used to sleep with my bedroom door open and as I lay in my bed, I could see across the hall to the staircase. On the wall of the staircase there were three framed paintings on the wall, each a little lower than the other (in succession down the staircase). I was in bed at night and I heard footsteps creaking in the hallway, so naturally I looked to see who was there. Nobody was there, but I saw a shadow of a person move succesfully through each painting, as though someone were walking down the stairs.

Needless to say, I sleep with my door closed now ^_^
nonentity
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2/7/2011 4:02:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 3:59:52 PM, nonentity wrote:
When I was in the sixth grade a friend of mine performed an exorcism on my house because weird sh*t kept happening lol

1. My sisters and I were the only ones home. We made sure to turn off the TV and went to the McDonald's down the street. We came back and the TV was on.

2. Any time I was home alone, if I was upstairs I could hear pots and pans clanging in the kitchen and if I was downstairs, I could hear the creak of someone walking upstairs.

As isolated events, these mean nothing, but then---

3. I used to sleep with my bedroom door open and as I lay in my bed, I could see across the hall to the staircase. On the wall of the staircase there were three framed paintings on the wall, each a little lower than the other (in succession down the staircase). I was in bed at night and I heard footsteps creaking in the hallway, so naturally I looked to see who was there. Nobody was there, but I saw a shadow of a person move succesfully through each painting, as though someone were walking down the stairs.

Needless to say, I sleep with my door closed now ^_^

Oh and in garage there was clearly a bloody handprint on the wall, as though someone had dragged their bloody hand down it. My mom insisted that it must have been paint even though there was no red paint in the house anywhere when we moved in.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
m93samman
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2/7/2011 4:06:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 1:31:43 PM, innomen wrote:

Definitely an elderly lady, anorexic? I really wouldn't know.

I: I'm not sure what to tell you at that point. That's kinda weird.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
nonentity
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2/7/2011 4:06:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor?
Grape
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2/7/2011 4:53:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If "logic" seems to show that ghosts do not exist and you found clear evidence that they do, than you would change your premises and logic would lead to the existence of ghosts. I don't see how you could experience something that truly defied logic.

That said, even if I had seemingly clear evidence of a ghost I would be very hesistant to believe in them. It seems far more likely that I could hallucinate than that the dead are living among us. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I promise you that there was no ghost. The existence of a ghost would nullify nearly everything we know about the nature of reality. It would take a lot to convince me of that.
mattrodstrom
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2/7/2011 5:04:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
was it windy outside??
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/7/2011 5:07:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 4:53:55 PM, Grape wrote:
If "logic" seems to show that ghosts do not exist and you found clear evidence that they do, than you would change your premises and logic would lead to the existence of ghosts. I don't see how you could experience something that truly defied logic.

This, and what Geo said.
President of DDO
Cerebral_Narcissist
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2/7/2011 6:47:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 12:56:24 PM, innomen wrote:


Just wondering....your thoughts.

I reckon it was two foxes mating/fighting just outside.

I am a massive sceptic, but if you wanted me to play around in your basement with a ouija board I would.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2011 7:24:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 4:06:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor?

Nah. Get a good night's sleep and they go away.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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2/7/2011 7:28:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:24:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:06:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor?

Nah. Get a good night's sleep and they go away.

Interesting, what do you think brings it on? Is it just a manifestation of internal conflicts?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/7/2011 7:29:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reading again and noticing the second person-- that still doesn't tell us it's a ghost. It tells us it's a noise. Say hello, see if they respond. Furnaces sound funny, as do little critters in the walls, etc. Moaning and crying is pretty much by definition not "distinct." Distinct is "GET ME OUT OF THE CLOSET YOU ****s."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2011 7:34:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:28:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:24:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:06:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor?

Nah. Get a good night's sleep and they go away.

Interesting, what do you think brings it on? Is it just a manifestation of internal conflicts?

Internal conflicts? Wtf? Nah, it's conditioning-- stress response to the sound of your name being shouted at a high pitch while muffled into extreme quietness by the walls, knowing that someone'll be pissed if it's real and you didn't hear it, and hence a tendency to get a lot of false positives from who knows what noises and other air whooshing past your eardrum.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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2/7/2011 7:36:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:34:23 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:28:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:24:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:06:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor?

Nah. Get a good night's sleep and they go away.

Interesting, what do you think brings it on? Is it just a manifestation of internal conflicts?

Internal conflicts? Wtf? Nah, it's conditioning-- stress response to the sound of your name being shouted at a high pitch while muffled into extreme quietness by the walls, knowing that someone'll be pissed if it's real and you didn't hear it, and hence a tendency to get a lot of false positives from who knows what noises and other air whooshing past your eardrum.

Okay now you have lost me!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2011 7:40:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:36:34 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:34:23 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:28:18 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:24:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:06:30 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.

Have you thought about seeing a doctor?

Nah. Get a good night's sleep and they go away.

Interesting, what do you think brings it on? Is it just a manifestation of internal conflicts?

Internal conflicts? Wtf? Nah, it's conditioning-- stress response to the sound of your name being shouted at a high pitch while muffled into extreme quietness by the walls, knowing that someone'll be pissed if it's real and you didn't hear it, and hence a tendency to get a lot of false positives from who knows what noises and other air whooshing past your eardrum.

Okay now you have lost me!
Get good quality walls.

Mom yells at you a lot, but the walls block sound really well, and so you miss it a lot until the third or fourth time.

Get chewed out for missing what when it reaches you is very quiet stuff.

Become more sensitive to very quiet noises of a certain pitch. But since there are limits to one's ability to do this, one gets a lot of false positives-- it's hard to distinguish the shouting from who-knows-what other types of environmental noise.

???

Not really profit, but stop-loss.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/7/2011 7:43:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Now I understand.

Why are mothers incapable of approaching their progeny and communicating instead of just shouting through walls?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2011 7:46:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:43:19 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Now I understand.

Why are mothers incapable of approaching their progeny and communicating instead of just shouting through walls?

I dunno. If you ask one they just shout more, except it's not through walls.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/7/2011 7:58:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
: At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.


Mate, you have a presupposition that the voice is an illusion, what evidence do you have to back that assertion up?

Also I wouldn't say experience trumps over logic, many people late logic to be a secular tool only, which of course is assumed without evidence once again.
Ragnar_Rahl
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2/7/2011 8:03:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.


Mate, you have a presupposition that the voice is an illusion, what evidence do you have to back that assertion up?
the burden of proof is on someone who asserts that it is something substantive. At the very least they have to have some claim as to what the substantive thing is.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GodSands
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2/7/2011 8:14:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
: At 2/7/2011 8:03:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.


Mate, you have a presupposition that the voice is an illusion, what evidence do you have to back that assertion up?
the burden of proof is on someone who asserts that it is something substantive. At the very least they have to have some claim as to what the substantive thing is.


It's probably a ghost, end of story. Unless innman has a background of mental illness, which he hasn't said he has. Also another person also heard the moaning in the closet or around that area. I believe that what he heard was a ghost or something demonic. You are presuming that it isn't a ghost because, for one you have no reason to not think that it isn't a ghost, and that if ghosts exist, they go against your naturalistic world view which is contrary to ghost's existence.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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2/7/2011 8:15:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.


Mate, you have a presupposition that the voice is an illusion, what evidence do you have to back that assertion up?


Science, reason, common sense.

Also I wouldn't say experience trumps over logic, many people late logic to be a secular tool only, which of course is assumed without evidence once again.

Gibberish.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/7/2011 8:18:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 8:14:36 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/7/2011 8:03:25 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/7/2011 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 2/7/2011 4:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I hear auditory illusions all the time. Mostly people nagging me. I've verified their status as illusions when I asked the people I heard if they said something, they didn't.

If you can't get a visual confirmation on this old lady, and hold a conversation, go to sleep and forget about it.


Mate, you have a presupposition that the voice is an illusion, what evidence do you have to back that assertion up?
the burden of proof is on someone who asserts that it is something substantive. At the very least they have to have some claim as to what the substantive thing is.


It's probably a ghost, end of story.
You didn't begin the story.

Also another person also heard the moaning in the closet or around that area.
There's a difference between illusions and hallucinations. Illusions can be seen/heard by multiple people.

You haven't even defined wtf a ghost is.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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2/7/2011 8:21:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/7/2011 8:18:16 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
You haven't even defined wtf a ghost is.

Something wierd in the closet.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.