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Food for welfare?

InsertNameHere
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3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.
Greyparrot
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3/4/2011 2:46:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

Money buys more votes than clothes and food. The poor will fight you.
nonentity
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3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.

2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?
InsertNameHere
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3/4/2011 2:49:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.

2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?

Yea, I'm not really sure of the specifics yet, but getting food as a form of welfare would be no different from going to a food bank and getting food there.
lovelife
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3/4/2011 2:55:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.

2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?

I actually think updating the food stamps thing would be helpful to include clothing and other things people need (like personal hygiene things, such as soap, toothpaste, deodorant, etc)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
I-am-a-panda
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3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?

Unemployment shouldn't be a proud event.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
InsertNameHere
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3/4/2011 3:02:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.

Yea, so I don't see why that wouldn't work. The welfare recipients could choose what to eat. Obviously they won't be getting a gourmet steak dinner every night, but they wouldn't be starving.

Unemployment shouldn't be a proud event.

This.

I'm actually embarrassed whenever I have to tell people I'm unemployed because of the negative stigma that goes along with it.
Ore_Ele
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3/4/2011 3:08:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

Agreed, I think that they should have a system where food stamps over covers the generic brands.

So if you want soda, and a 2L of mountain dew, that'll be about $1.75, but the generic is $0.75 at most stores, so have the system cover $0.75 of the soda and you pay the difference.

If the basic bread is $1.29 a loaf, and the bread you want is $3.99 a loaf, then you only get $1.29 off from the program. Same with any other item which is not a pure pleasure item (sure, you can live without bread, but you can live without just about any single product). And of course, you'd still have a standard monthly limit, based on what your need is.

I got this idea when I saw someone use food stamps to purchase the expensive milk (even though if you look on the gallons, the come from the exact same dairy farm).

That way, the tax payers are only paying for basic food and not for luxury stuff.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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3/4/2011 3:10:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


But what about clothes? The clothes I choose to wear are really important to me :/ But I'll drop this point because the majority of this site are hetero males :p


Unemployment shouldn't be a proud event.


Heh. But like INH mentioned it is embarrassing. Imagine every time you went to the bank they announced how much (or little) money was in your account. By receiving government aid you forfeit your privacy?
Greyparrot
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3/4/2011 3:11:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:10:20 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


But what about clothes? The clothes I choose to wear are really important to me :/ But I'll drop this point because the majority of this site are hetero males :p

I feel falsely stereotyped!
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/4/2011 3:15:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.:

Thanks for the kudos, but I don't want this being misinterpreted. I don't want the government involved in this, whatsoever. I was just making the point from person to person contact, it seems more useful to give actual goods to the poor versus just giving them straight cash to help prevent a misappropriation of funds. This would be individual donation from charity, not government sponsored welfare.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
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3/4/2011 3:16:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.

Sadly, this choice is one of the things that is forfeited by accepting aid. If I needed help and my parents gave me money for rent, should it be my choice to go blow it on scotch?


2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?

Typically it would be a card (like a debit card), and when you swipe it, there are options, "debit, credit, or EFT."

unless people see your card, they won't know.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
nonentity
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3/4/2011 3:16:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:11:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/4/2011 3:10:20 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


But what about clothes? The clothes I choose to wear are really important to me :/ But I'll drop this point because the majority of this site are hetero males :p

I feel falsely stereotyped!

Sorry, I rescind my comment :)
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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3/4/2011 3:18:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What happens when all of these items go on ebay?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
nonentity
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3/4/2011 3:19:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:16:10 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.

Sadly, this choice is one of the things that is forfeited by accepting aid. If I needed help and my parents gave me money for rent, should it be my choice to go blow it on scotch?


No, but you might still like a choice between whether you'd like to live downtown or in the suburbs.


2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?

Typically it would be a card (like a debit card), and when you swipe it, there are options, "debit, credit, or EFT."

unless people see your card, they won't know.

That's actually an awesome idea. I think this is how child support should work as well (not to derail the thread, but) to ensure the funds are going where they're supposed to :)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/4/2011 3:23:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.:

Well, that's just too damn bad. They don't deserve anything from me in the first place, so if they're so high and mighty that they won't accept my food, they can rot in a gutter. With that kind of audacity I wouldn't piss on them even if they were on fire.

As you can see, sensitivity is kind of my thing :D

2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?:

No welfare, whatsoever. This is interpersonal from the donor to the recipient. But, hell, shame doesn't seem to be the issue. If you can muster the courage to stand on a street corner and have people scoffing at you, something tells me they wouldn't feel shame about it!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
nonentity
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3/4/2011 3:28:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:23:23 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.:

Well, that's just too damn bad. They don't deserve anything from me in the first place, so if they're so high and mighty that they won't accept my food, they can rot in a gutter. With that kind of audacity I wouldn't piss on them even if they were on fire.

As you can see, sensitivity is kind of my thing :D

So harsh yet so funny.


2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?:

No welfare, whatsoever. This is interpersonal from the donor to the recipient. But, hell, shame doesn't seem to be the issue. If you can muster the courage to stand on a street corner and have people scoffing at you, something tells me they wouldn't feel shame about it!

Ohh okay. I was going off of INH's OP with government involvement.
InsertNameHere
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3/4/2011 3:29:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:15:20 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

Thanks for the kudos, but I don't want this being misinterpreted. I don't want the government involved in this, whatsoever. I was just making the point from person to person contact, it seems more useful to give actual goods to the poor versus just giving them straight cash to help prevent a misappropriation of funds. This would be individual donation from charity, not government sponsored welfare.

I realize what your intent was, but I just started wondering if the same thing could work as a state sanctioned system.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/4/2011 3:42:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So harsh yet so funny.:

I make a great philanthropist ;)
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
innomen
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3/4/2011 3:54:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:11:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/4/2011 3:10:20 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


But what about clothes? The clothes I choose to wear are really important to me :/ But I'll drop this point because the majority of this site are hetero males :p

I feel falsely stereotyped!

Me too. What a homophobic stereotype. Wait... You're straight right? I know this keeps coming up.
innomen
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3/4/2011 3:55:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:42:55 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
This is mostly directed at all the pro-welfare people out there, but I suppose anybody can contribute. P_L made an excellent point in another thread(it was the thread about beggars I believe) about how welfare services should consist of food, new clothes, etc. instead of money as a way to prevent the system from being abused while also providing incentive to find work. I thought this was brilliant and was just thinking about it, would this actually be able to work? The only other alternatives would be to provide money with drug testing or to just scrap the system altogether.

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.


2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?

These are both excellent opportunities for people to learn humility. Shame isn't a bad thing for many people. It also provides incentive to get a job.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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3/4/2011 3:59:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's going to be incredibly inefficient to have the state decide which goods and services people should and should not be able to buy, and whether there's generic brands available or not, etc. It might end up costing taxpayers more money than people milking the system due to the extra bureaucracy required, so I don't know if that's that great of an idea.

Instead, pay employed/working individuals (15/20 hours a week or more) with food stamps, money, or both, and offer unemployed people nothing but a job. This way, people can't just sit around smoking blunts and watching MTV on taxpayer funds, yet the working poor will still have a source of financial help. Sure, some people will buy weed with welfare money, but that's still better than having Uncle Sam decide how many sodas you can buy a month.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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3/4/2011 4:01:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:55:55 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:48:01 PM, nonentity wrote:

These are my concerns with giving food and clothes instead of money:

1) Lack of choice. People like to choose what they eat and what they wear. I know 'beggars can't be choosers' but still.


2) Shame. Would you have to purchase these things with tokens? How would it work and how discreet would the process be?


These are both excellent opportunities for people to learn humility. Shame isn't a bad thing for many people. It also provides incentive to get a job.

I think many of the poor are already down in the dumps enough as it is, so I don't see any need to further denigrate them.
lovelife
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3/4/2011 4:09:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:59:36 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
It's going to be incredibly inefficient to have the state decide which goods and services people should and should not be able to buy, and whether there's generic brands available or not, etc. It might end up costing taxpayers more money than people milking the system due to the extra bureaucracy required, so I don't know if that's that great of an idea.

Yeah I think food, clothing, (maybe something to help with paying bills such as rent, electricity, water, etc)
But not anything that dictates what you buy.
If you get $100 to spend on food and you spend it all on steaks and expensive milk....you wont get anymore. It wont cost tax payers anymore whatsoever.
It costs the same amount every month.

Instead, pay employed/working individuals (15/20 hours a week or more) with food stamps, money, or both, and offer unemployed people nothing but a job. This way, people can't just sit around smoking blunts and watching MTV on taxpayer funds, yet the working poor will still have a source of financial help. Sure, some people will buy weed with welfare money, but that's still better than having Uncle Sam decide how many sodas you can buy a month.

Agreed. As long as they do SOMETHING to CONSISTENTLY give back (volunteer work even!) then they should get help. I think there needs to be some sort of bridge type thing (I REALLY suck at explaining, and idk the exact numbers) where if you do min work, you get min help, and then it increases, but weeds you off of it when your able to provide for yourself more.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Kleptin
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3/4/2011 4:16:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm going to repeat this point:

How are we going to prevent these restricted products from hitting the market for low costs?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Danielle
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3/4/2011 4:16:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I once made a thread about a program in Texas I saw on CNN, which was a really great welfare to work program. People would essentially be trained how to build houses, mold metal or whatever, and then they'd get jobs doing that stuff so they didn't need to be on welfare. This is an even better idea than just giving people things like food. However like PL said, most people just don't want the government involved at all.
President of DDO
InsertNameHere
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3/4/2011 4:19:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 4:16:54 PM, Danielle wrote:
I once made a thread about a program in Texas I saw on CNN, which was a really great welfare to work program. People would essentially be trained how to build houses, mold metal or whatever, and then they'd get jobs doing that stuff so they didn't need to be on welfare. This is an even better idea than just giving people things like food. However like PL said, most people just don't want the government involved at all.

That's a good idea too. They should be training people.
I-am-a-panda
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3/4/2011 4:28:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 3:10:20 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


But what about clothes? The clothes I choose to wear are really important to me :/ But I'll drop this point because the majority of this site are hetero males :p

Homeless people shouldn't have fashion concerns. Again, clothes vouchers are doable.



Unemployment shouldn't be a proud event.


Heh. But like INH mentioned it is embarrassing. Imagine every time you went to the bank they announced how much (or little) money was in your account. By receiving government aid you forfeit your privacy?

By joining a bank you automatically surrender privacy. How does being homeless change that?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
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3/4/2011 4:29:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 4:28:35 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 3/4/2011 3:10:20 PM, nonentity wrote:
At 3/4/2011 2:56:14 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:

Food tokens provide a choice of food.


But what about clothes? The clothes I choose to wear are really important to me :/ But I'll drop this point because the majority of this site are hetero males :p

Homeless people shouldn't have fashion concerns. Again, clothes vouchers are doable.



Unemployment shouldn't be a proud event.


Heh. But like INH mentioned it is embarrassing. Imagine every time you went to the bank they announced how much (or little) money was in your account. By receiving government aid you forfeit your privacy?

By joining a bank you automatically surrender privacy. How does being unemployed change that?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
lovelife
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3/4/2011 4:36:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/4/2011 4:16:14 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I'm going to repeat this point:

How are we going to prevent these restricted products from hitting the market for low costs?

Why would it matter?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave