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FREEDO'S Political Spectrum

FREEDO
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3/8/2011 5:17:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is actually more complicated than it looks(and it looks complicated). I made many revisions.

This is essentially how I see the political spectrum. Feel free to try to figure it out and position yourself on it(unless you're in a corner or on a side don't bother marking it with a dot because it's 3 dimensional and too hard to see where the dot is).

In-case you're wondering why hierarchy goes in two directions, it's because it's nearly impossible and even less comprehensible when you try to depict half of the shape.

http://oi54.tinypic.com...
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 5:23:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
By the way, I know there's a hole in it. I just haven't found a way to express how I'm thinking of it in visual terms.
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 5:24:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 5:23:07 AM, FREEDO wrote:
By the way, I know there's a hole in it. I just haven't found a way to express how I'm thinking of it in visual terms.

The hole is where there is none of the three factors but I suppose we could just call that apathy. Might just work out, actually.
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 5:31:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 5:24:40 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 5:23:07 AM, FREEDO wrote:
By the way, I know there's a hole in it. I just haven't found a way to express how I'm thinking of it in visual terms.

The hole is where there is none of the three factors but I suppose we could just call that apathy. Might just work out, actually.

http://oi51.tinypic.com...

There.
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fnord
Volkov
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3/8/2011 6:05:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 5:31:46 AM, FREEDO wrote:
http://oi51.tinypic.com...

There.

Did you just want to make the ideological spectrum as difficult to understand and see as possible, or what?
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 8:57:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 6:05:10 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 3/8/2011 5:31:46 AM, FREEDO wrote:
http://oi51.tinypic.com...

There.

Did you just want to make the ideological spectrum as difficult to understand and see as possible, or what?

This is what happens when I try to simplify my imaginations.
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fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:03:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's not complicated, just vague.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:07:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's not complicated, just vague.

How is it vague?
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fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:09:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Autonomy" and "Hierarchy" are both terms that are defined in self-contradictory manners in different ideologies. Until you define them...

Also, when did you stop claiming anarchy was compatible with democracy?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:10:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, totalitarians can be democratic.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:11:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
for example, what are you putting on the other end of totalitarianism, what on the other end of anarchy, what on the other end of dictatorship? When you figure these out your shape is unlikely to work.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:14:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:09:03 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
"Autonomy" and "Hierarchy" are both terms that are defined in self-contradictory manners in different ideologies. Until you define them...

Also, when did you stop claiming anarchy was compatible with democracy?

Hierarchy: Control of one over another or few over many.

Democracy: Control of many over few.

Autonomy: Control over one's self.

Since forever.
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fnord
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/8/2011 10:15:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:07:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's not complicated, just vague.

How is it vague?

This is nothing complex compared to graphs i've seen in engineering classes.

what does each section mean (democracy, autonomy, and hierarchy)?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:15:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:10:30 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Also, totalitarians can be democratic.

Authoritarians can mix with democracy and the spectrum allows that but a complete totalitarian has no democracy.
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:16:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:11:46 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
for example, what are you putting on the other end of totalitarianism, what on the other end of anarchy, what on the other end of dictatorship? When you figure these out your shape is unlikely to work.

I don't know what you mean by "other end".
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:17:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:15:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:07:03 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:03:54 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's not complicated, just vague.

How is it vague?

This is nothing complex compared to graphs i've seen in engineering classes.

what does each section mean (democracy, autonomy, and hierarchy)?

See reply to Ragnar.
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fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:22:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hierarchy: Control of one over another or few over many.
Wanna stop some mother****er from controlling someone else? Yer gonna have to control him. This isn't a measure of someone's political priorities, it's a measure of their stupidity-- the corners are stupid, the middle realizes the whole damn measure is stupid.

Autonomy: Control over one's self.
Naturally, you decided to make this exclusive to anarchists.

Basically, everyone on this diagram who isn't an anarchist is a strawman, and the anarchist corner is a self-deception. I'll stick with political spectrums that actually measure something reasonably graphable.


Since forever.
You haven't believed anything since forever. Hell, it's rare for you to believe something for a week.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:23:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:16:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:11:46 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
for example, what are you putting on the other end of totalitarianism, what on the other end of anarchy, what on the other end of dictatorship? When you figure these out your shape is unlikely to work.

I don't know what you mean by "other end".

It's a bounded graph. If there's an extreme on one end, there's doubtless one on another.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:28:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:22:35 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Hierarchy: Control of one over another or few over many.
Wanna stop some mother****er from controlling someone else? Yer gonna have to control him. This isn't a measure of someone's political priorities, it's a measure of their stupidity-- the corners are stupid, the middle realizes the whole damn measure is stupid.

You are making an argument against Anarchism. Not my graph.


Autonomy: Control over one's self.
Naturally, you decided to make this exclusive to anarchists.

Basically, everyone on this diagram who isn't an anarchist is a strawman, and the anarchist corner is a self-deception. I'll stick with political spectrums that actually measure something reasonably graphable.

My graph doesn't discriminate against any ideology. Your critique doesn't even make sense.


Since forever.
You haven't believed anything since forever. Hell, it's rare for you to believe something for a week.

Well, to clear things up: I am currently a type of Post-Left Anarchist; I am an Individualist Anarchist who also believes in a gift-economy.
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:29:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:23:35 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:16:47 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:11:46 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
for example, what are you putting on the other end of totalitarianism, what on the other end of anarchy, what on the other end of dictatorship? When you figure these out your shape is unlikely to work.

I don't know what you mean by "other end".

It's a bounded graph. If there's an extreme on one end, there's doubtless one on another.

Haha, I guess who could say there are ends if you ignore the angles.
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fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:36:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:28:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:22:35 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Hierarchy: Control of one over another or few over many.
Wanna stop some mother****er from controlling someone else? Yer gonna have to control him. This isn't a measure of someone's political priorities, it's a measure of their stupidity-- the corners are stupid, the middle realizes the whole damn measure is stupid.

You are making an argument against Anarchism. Not my graph.
Yeah, your graph is a graph of how anarchists see the issues. And not the brainy anarchists either.



Autonomy: Control over one's self.
Naturally, you decided to make this exclusive to anarchists.

Basically, everyone on this diagram who isn't an anarchist is a strawman, and the anarchist corner is a self-deception. I'll stick with political spectrums that actually measure something reasonably graphable.

My graph doesn't discriminate against any ideology.
Yes, it does. It's unable to define any ideology except whatever the one point you think of as anarchism is, and it doesn't do that very well. It's the only point where one can sit and say "Hey, this graph makes sense." Sit anywhere else, and it's impossible to think what a step in any direction except the democratic one would even look like.

Your critique doesn't even make sense.
That's not a rebuttal, especially as your status as the proponent of the graph gives you the burden of proof that it's meaningful.



Since forever.
You haven't believed anything since forever. Hell, it's rare for you to believe something for a week.

Well, to clear things up: I am currently a type of Post-Left Anarchist; I am an Individualist Anarchist who also believes in a gift-economy.
That doesn't sound very individualist of you. and I can guarantee on good authority that you cannot consistently implement a gift economy in an anarchy. You know how? Cause I ain't gonna gift people in it. ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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3/8/2011 10:47:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:36:30 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
That doesn't sound very individualist of you. and I can guarantee on good authority that you cannot consistently implement a gift economy in an anarchy. You know how? Cause I ain't gonna gift people in it. ^_^

If you were in it I wouldn't even consider it Anarchist. An Anarchist society is a society made of Anarchists.

And I don't seek to eradicate trade. Trade in a gift-economy would be just as frequent as gifts in a trade-economy.

Also, I find it sad that you would never give a gift to someone.
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fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/8/2011 10:52:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 10:47:01 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/8/2011 10:36:30 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
That doesn't sound very individualist of you. and I can guarantee on good authority that you cannot consistently implement a gift economy in an anarchy. You know how? Cause I ain't gonna gift people in it. ^_^

If you were in it I wouldn't even consider it Anarchist. An Anarchist society is a society made of Anarchists.
Ah, so the only way to achieve anarchy is absolute politicide. In other words, the abolition of freedom of conscience.

Or dumb luck and small populations.

Also, I find it sad that you would never give a gift to someone.
Oh, but that's not what I said. What I said was I would never give a gift in a gift economy anarchy. What I'd do in a trade economy is a different story-- though it depends how you define gift. The only reason I'd give a gift is as a celebration of ongoing trades, especially trades involving f***ing someone on a regular basis. :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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3/9/2011 10:03:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/8/2011 5:23:07 AM, FREEDO wrote:
By the way, I know there's a hole in it. I just haven't found a way to express how I'm thinking of it in visual terms.

It has just come to me how you can create a '3-D' effect in a 2-D format. You retain the normal x/y chart right? But you add an additional dimension by either the size or shade of the dot. It's not perfect in that it requires a footnote to explain. But to be honest I am not sure I fully understand your graph yet.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.