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Reasoning's Political Philosophy

Danielle
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3/16/2011 12:31:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm calling Reasoning out, because I've asked him the same question at least a dozen times - only to be completely ignored every time.

This is his current Facebook status: "The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society." -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Here's my question. I would like to know how the sheep who sucks Murray Rothbard's d!ck all day long and rants and raves about the merits of capitalism can simultaneously proclaim that property is theft.

Now I know you won't be able to use your own words, Reasoning, so a quote from someone else about "your beliefs" is fine... so long as it reconciles the two vehemently opposing ideological differences you apparently hold.
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Sieben
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3/16/2011 12:43:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Agreed. He always seemed to play both sides of the fence. I think he just can't let go of the anti-capitalist spirit?
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Reasoning
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3/16/2011 1:05:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To quote Rousseau himself:

"Attentive readers, do not, I pray, be in a hurry to charge me with contradicting myself. The terminology made it unavoidable, considering the poverty of the language; but wait and see."
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
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3/16/2011 1:10:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 1:05:52 PM, Reasoning wrote:
To quote Rousseau himself:

"Attentive readers, do not, I pray, be in a hurry to charge me with contradicting myself. The terminology made it unavoidable, considering the poverty of the language; but wait and see."

Redefine terms if you like, you still won't get anything meaningful and consistent. I guarantee it.
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Reasoning
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3/16/2011 9:27:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 12:43:57 PM, Sieben wrote:
I think he just can't let go of the anti-capitalist spirit?

"Capitalism was founded on an act of robbery as massive as feudalism. It has been sustained to the present by continual state intervention to protect its system of privilege, without which its survival is unimaginable. " - Kevin Carson
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Rob1_Billion
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3/17/2011 1:55:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
He does have a point that our language is a major barrier to our ability to communicate within these forums., however Reasoning is notorious for not being able to plant a flag.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, though, because a work in progress is superior to a willfully-held (as in spite, hatred, or stubborness) specific belief system. I think more people look at politics as a 'defeating the enemy' activity rather than a 'discovering the truth' activity.
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FREEDO
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3/17/2011 2:43:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Lol, how come Reasoning gets a thread about this when my entire philosophy is openly about contradicting myself?

Tough, to be honest, Reasoning's association with Rothbard does baffle me slightly.
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FREEDO
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3/17/2011 2:45:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/16/2011 1:05:52 PM, Reasoning wrote:
To quote Rousseau himself:

"Attentive readers, do not, I pray, be in a hurry to charge me with contradicting myself. The terminology made it unavoidable, considering the poverty of the language; but wait and see."

I will always respect someone who's methodology of thought is not restricted by language.
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Danielle
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3/17/2011 11:32:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:36:51 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org... ?

I've been interested in Geoanarchism and the like (Geolibertariaism) though it obviously has flaws, but they are specifically against many capitalist policies - so no, Reasoning cannot simultaneously support those and Rothbard.

Once again, Reasoning's beliefs are not cohesive whatsoever. He recycles quotes but does not even know which ones he stands by.
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Danielle
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3/17/2011 11:33:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 2:43:59 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Lol, how come Reasoning gets a thread about this when my entire philosophy is openly about contradicting myself?

For exactly that reason - I don't take you seriously, and you don't expect people to take you seriously or seem to want to be taken seriously... so why would I ask you a serious question? :)
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Reasoning
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3/17/2011 3:02:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 11:32:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
I've been interested in Geoanarchism and the like (Geolibertariaism) though it obviously has flaws, but they are specifically against many capitalist policies - so no, Reasoning cannot simultaneously support those and Rothbard.

Rothbard wasn't a geolibertarian, no. But his system and geolibertarianism are conceptually very similar.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
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3/17/2011 4:33:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 11:33:52 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 3/17/2011 2:43:59 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Lol, how come Reasoning gets a thread about this when my entire philosophy is openly about contradicting myself?

For exactly that reason - I don't take you seriously, and you don't expect people to take you seriously or seem to want to be taken seriously... so why would I ask you a serious question? :)

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Danielle
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3/21/2011 11:43:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 3:02:41 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Rothbard wasn't a geolibertarian, no. But his system and geolibertarianism are conceptually very similar.

Is that what you're claiming to be these days? That's probably the single closest representation of my views. But you're crazy if you think Rothbard shares those views. Does Rothbard think that land is the common property of all mankind? Ha. Far from it.
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Vi_Veri
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3/22/2011 12:11:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There he goes avoiding giving an explanation again :) So, Reasoning, would you like to clarify?
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FREEDO
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3/22/2011 6:29:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
By the way, I can best be thought of as an Individualist Anarchist who doesn't believe in property rights.
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Thaddeus
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3/22/2011 6:34:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 6:29:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
By the way, I can best be thought of as an Individualist Anarchist who doesn't believe in property rights.

(Right now.)
Danielle
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3/22/2011 9:58:32 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 12:11:15 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
There he goes avoiding giving an explanation again :) So, Reasoning, would you like to clarify?

No he would not. He's been spending the past 48 hours looking up Rothbard quotes trying desperately to find a passage that somehow explains how to reconcile capitalism with not believing in property rights. He hasn't found one yet therefore does not have a response, obviously. Don't hold your breath either. I've been asking him this question for months, only to have him conveniently dodge the question (even pathetically deleting my inquiries off his Facebook) and even now avoiding this thread entirely.
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Thaddeus
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3/22/2011 10:21:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 9:58:32 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 3/22/2011 12:11:15 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
There he goes avoiding giving an explanation again :) So, Reasoning, would you like to clarify?

No he would not. He's been spending the past 48 hours looking up Rothbard quotes trying desperately to find a passage that somehow explains how to reconcile capitalism with not believing in property rights. He hasn't found one yet therefore does not have a response, obviously. Don't hold your breath either. I've been asking him this question for months, only to have him conveniently dodge the question (even pathetically deleting my inquiries off his Facebook) and even now avoiding this thread entirely.

Nah, he's probably just singing trolololol to himself.
Heathen
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3/22/2011 10:43:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I honestly dont see that quote as having anything to do with theft.
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LaissezFaire
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3/22/2011 10:49:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reasoning is a moral nihilist anarcho-capitalist. He just dislikes the word capitalism for some reason, and uses definitions of 'capitalism' and 'socialism' that no one else uses when he's talking about politics, which is part of why it's unclear what he's talking about. Also, while he supports the same things the rest of us ancaps support, he has a very different idea of how an ancap society would work, which makes it seem like he's advocating an entirely different system.

At least I'm fairly sure that that's what it is, I could be wrong.
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Reasoning
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3/22/2011 11:15:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/21/2011 11:43:14 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 3/17/2011 3:02:41 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Rothbard wasn't a geolibertarian, no. But his system and geolibertarianism are conceptually very similar.

Is that what you're claiming to be these days?

I think it's interesting and certainly better than the present system, which is something Rothbard might disagree with me on. But am I sure a Georgist system would be better than Ingalls'? No.

That's probably the single closest representation of my views. But you're crazy if you think Rothbard shares those views. Does Rothbard think that land is the common property of all mankind? Ha. Far from it.

No he didn't, and while there are differences between Rothbard's thought and those of the geolibertarians, outside of the land question they agree on essentially everything.

And even on the land question Rothbard's land reform would certainly be preferred to the current system.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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3/22/2011 11:17:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 9:58:32 AM, Danielle wrote:
No he would not. He's been spending the past 48 hours looking up Rothbard quotes trying desperately to find a passage that somehow explains how to reconcile capitalism with not believing in property rights.

Actually, I've been away at a program.

I've been asking him this question for months, only to have him conveniently dodge the question (even pathetically deleting my inquiries off his Facebook)

I did no such thing. In fact, I don't believe I've ever deleted another person's post or comment on facebook.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Vi_Veri
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3/22/2011 8:23:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 11:17:27 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/22/2011 9:58:32 AM, Danielle wrote:
No he would not. He's been spending the past 48 hours looking up Rothbard quotes trying desperately to find a passage that somehow explains how to reconcile capitalism with not believing in property rights.

Actually, I've been away at a program.

I've been asking him this question for months, only to have him conveniently dodge the question (even pathetically deleting my inquiries off his Facebook)

I did no such thing. In fact, I don't believe I've ever deleted another person's post or comment on facebook.

You still haven't explained your beliefs.
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Danielle
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3/22/2011 10:32:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 11:15:44 AM, Reasoning wrote:
No he didn't, and while there are differences between Rothbard's thought and those of the geolibertarians, outside of the land question they agree on essentially everything.

The issue of property is a pretty big difference. It's the fundamental difference between the right and the left. Capitalism cannot function without their perception of property, which Rothbard agrees with and leftists do not. You disagree with property, therefore you cannot support capitalism. Period.

And even on the land question Rothbard's land reform would certainly be preferred to the current system.

No kidding. A lot of things would be better than the current system.
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Danielle
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3/22/2011 10:38:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 10:49:00 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Reasoning is a moral nihilist anarcho-capitalist. He just dislikes the word capitalism for some reason, and uses definitions of 'capitalism' and 'socialism' that no one else uses when he's talking about politics, which is part of why it's unclear what he's talking about.

By that logic we can define any word any way we want and then claim to be anything and have it be valid. Clearly that's not a good way to communicate. I think Reasoning is just too much of a pu$sy to break away from the ancap title even though he doesn't agree with ancaps. He can agree with them on some things just like liberals and libertarians might both want to legalize pot. But that doesn't make them the same thing by any means.

Also, while he supports the same things the rest of us ancaps support, he has a very different idea of how an ancap society would work, which makes it seem like he's advocating an entirely different system.

He's advocating a different system entirely. What he proposes is completely against what Rothbard, Nozick, Friedman, etc. all base their system on. He's a straight up blatantly obvious LEFTIST who keeps denying it and hiding behind his Rothbard quotes. Because Reasoning is smart enough to kn better, it just seems kind of pathetic.

And sorry about the Facebook accusation Reasoning -- It's just that I posted several questions on your status the other day, and then mid-convo, they seemed to be deleted. Maybe my comp was messing up though.
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Reasoning
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3/23/2011 9:27:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/22/2011 10:32:58 PM, Danielle wrote:
The issue of property is a pretty big difference. It's the fundamental difference between the right and the left. Capitalism cannot function without their perception of property, which Rothbard agrees with and leftists do not. You disagree with property, therefore you cannot support capitalism. Period.

I do not support capitalism, agreed.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran