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Schooling is a Public Bad

Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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3/27/2011 4:56:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The US gov should stop funding it immediately.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/27/2011 5:11:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Public funding does not give everyone an equal opportunity. It just give those who live in richer towns and cities the opportunity to get a better education than those who live in poorer towns and cities.

Government funded schools also give teachers the ability to completely exploit the government, and give them more perks, and money then they deserve. It's easy to have a powerful union in the government if the government has no sense of efficiency, and minimization of input and maximizing output.

The modern schooling system is just plain inefficient. Why are we having teachers lectures, when you could easily mass produce a lecture via video? Privatization of school and deregulation of school would have resolved this issue easily, but no we are still stuck in a schooling system that fails to change with technology.
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LeafRod
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3/27/2011 6:07:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 5:11:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Why are we having teachers lectures, when you could easily mass produce a lecture via video?

Dumb.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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3/27/2011 6:20:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 5:11:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:

The modern schooling system is just plain inefficient. Why are we having teachers lectures, when you could easily mass produce a lecture via video? Privatization of school and deregulation of school would have resolved this issue easily, but no we are still stuck in a schooling system that fails to change with technology.

I know a person who attended a class at university where they just played a video recording of the lesson. Lectures of core content should definitely be available, as an additional resource to current teaching. However, teachers are needed to deal with problems in student learning, extension work and also class interest.

I suggest that a set of lectures on core content (schools have syllabuses) be put online, teachers hours reduced, and teachers hours be dedicated to student questions and interest in the subject. While technology should be utilised, human interaction still has many indisputable advantages.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
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darkkermit
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3/27/2011 7:42:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 6:20:18 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
At 3/27/2011 5:11:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:

The modern schooling system is just plain inefficient. Why are we having teachers lectures, when you could easily mass produce a lecture via video? Privatization of school and deregulation of school would have resolved this issue easily, but no we are still stuck in a schooling system that fails to change with technology.

I know a person who attended a class at university where they just played a video recording of the lesson. Lectures of core content should definitely be available, as an additional resource to current teaching. However, teachers are needed to deal with problems in student learning, extension work and also class interest.

I suggest that a set of lectures on core content (schools have syllabuses) be put online, teachers hours reduced, and teachers hours be dedicated to student questions and interest in the subject. While technology should be utilised, human interaction still has many indisputable advantages.

I'm not denying that teachers be completely removed. But a lot of teachers would be eliminated if lectures on core content were put online.

Also, I think that a student/teacher question session could easily be replaced by yahoo answers.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/27/2011 11:50:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."
~ Albert Einstein

"I never let my schooling get in the way of my education.
~ Mark Twain
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

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Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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3/28/2011 12:51:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think I have to agree: school is bad. Middle school and beyond is of particular concern to me because it is where conformity really sets in strong. Kids are trying to learn how to grow up and at the same time schools are throwing down all these rules on them and problem-children are screwing them up worse. Kids don't think clearly and factors like these can warp their character.
kfc
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/28/2011 12:55:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 7:42:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/27/2011 6:20:18 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
At 3/27/2011 5:11:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:

The modern schooling system is just plain inefficient. Why are we having teachers lectures, when you could easily mass produce a lecture via video? Privatization of school and deregulation of school would have resolved this issue easily, but no we are still stuck in a schooling system that fails to change with technology.

I know a person who attended a class at university where they just played a video recording of the lesson. Lectures of core content should definitely be available, as an additional resource to current teaching. However, teachers are needed to deal with problems in student learning, extension work and also class interest.

I suggest that a set of lectures on core content (schools have syllabuses) be put online, teachers hours reduced, and teachers hours be dedicated to student questions and interest in the subject. While technology should be utilised, human interaction still has many indisputable advantages.

I'm not denying that teachers be completely removed. But a lot of teachers would be eliminated if lectures on core content were put online.

Also, I think that a student/teacher question session could easily be replaced by yahoo answers.

Having questions answered by an expert (or atleast someone trained on the subject) > having questions answered by a random person on the internet.
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Chrysippus
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3/28/2011 1:10:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 7:42:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:

Also, I think that a student/teacher question session could easily be replaced by yahoo answers.

That is the worst suggestion I have ever seen. Yahoo Answers has a lot of stupid people answering questions they know nothing about; referring a student to that site is mental homicide.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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3/28/2011 1:22:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 1:10:39 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 3/27/2011 7:42:16 PM, darkkermit wrote:

Also, I think that a student/teacher question session could easily be replaced by yahoo answers.

That is the worst suggestion I have ever seen. Yahoo Answers has a lot of stupid people answering questions they know nothing about; referring a student to that site is mental homicide.

Not necessarily. This site has as many 'bad' answers as any; these often, in contrast, provide the truths (through competitive means) that we are looking for.
kfc
CosmicAlfonzo
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3/28/2011 1:53:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
While most kids don't really learn sh!t from school, and on the whole I'd say it is wasteful institution...

I don't have faith in parents to do a better job.

Schools should concentrate more on reading, and reading comprehension. That and math.

Reading and reading comprehension because if you have that, learning on your own becomes infinitely easier. You can go to the REAL learning institutions.. LIBRARIES.

Math, because lets face it, how many parents are going to sit down and teach their kids math? In fact, how many parents are even qualified to teach math?

You'd be surprised to find how ignorant most older people are when it comes to knowledge that we take for granted.

Some good comes from public schooling, but you aren't going to get a REAL education from school. A real education comes from a more personal effort.

The best school would be the one that can get kids to WANT to learn. Good luck with that.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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3/28/2011 1:53:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, high fives to Freedo.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Rob1_Billion
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3/28/2011 2:23:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 1:53:04 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
While most kids don't really learn sh!t from school, and on the whole I'd say it is wasteful institution...

I don't have faith in parents to do a better job.

Schools should concentrate more on reading, and reading comprehension. That and math.

Reading and reading comprehension because if you have that, learning on your own becomes infinitely easier. You can go to the REAL learning institutions.. LIBRARIES.

That's a good idea, actually. If we set up libraries as learning centers instead of just book warehouses, perhaps we could phase out some of the bullsh*t.

Math, because lets face it, how many parents are going to sit down and teach their kids math? In fact, how many parents are even qualified to teach math?

Not all, but plenty enough that small groups could be assembled once in awhile to accomplish the task. I can think of many creative ways a community could boost its math scores completely based on volunteerism and cooperation... of course no one will have time to volunteer or motive to cooperate if they are spending all their time working a 9-5 trying to boost sales of plastic trinkets. Alas.

You'd be surprised to find how ignorant most older people are when it comes to knowledge that we take for granted.

So let me get this straight: efforts that may boost literacy (e.g., abolishing the institution in favor of a more creative solution) should be abandoned on the grounds that there aren't enough literate people to accomplish the task?

Some good comes from public schooling, but you aren't going to get a REAL education from school. A real education comes from a more personal effort.

The best school would be the one that can get kids to WANT to learn. Good luck with that.

Kids naturally want to learn. The art of sculpting their desire can be challenging, but forcing it down their throats in an authoritative classroom is not a good idea. You can entice them by creating the paradigm that learning unlocks life's benefits, in simple terms. Perhaps there will be a percentage of children that are simply repulsed by education. Fine. They probably have a useful function that doesn't require one, and forcing them to complete GED before they can be considered for anything meaningful isn't fair.
kfc
CosmicAlfonzo
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3/28/2011 2:44:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That's all fine and fantastic, but as long as you have kids whose parents sit around, smoke pot all day, don't do jack, and might even possibly be mentally ill, you aren't going to find an easy solution.

That is what I'm saying.

There are some very controlling people out there who are also very stupid who would rather hold a child's hand through everything, tell them what to think, and retard their efforts to growing mentally.

That type of mentality isn't going to go away.

It is one thing to raise a good kid on your own, it's something entirely different when you talk about institutionalizing it.

Even a community get together to school children would be a form of institutionalization.

There is no easy answer. Stupidity, mankind's all pervading illness, will throw a wrench in all good ideas.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
nonentity
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3/28/2011 2:49:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 5:11:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Public funding does not give everyone an equal opportunity. It just give those who live in richer towns and cities the opportunity to get a better education than those who live in poorer towns and cities.

Government funded schools also give teachers the ability to completely exploit the government, and give them more perks, and money then they deserve. It's easy to have a powerful union in the government if the government has no sense of efficiency, and minimization of input and maximizing output.

The modern schooling system is just plain inefficient. Why are we having teachers lectures, when you could easily mass produce a lecture via video? Privatization of school and deregulation of school would have resolved this issue easily, but no we are still stuck in a schooling system that fails to change with technology.

Is this satire?
Grape
Posts: 989
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3/28/2011 3:12:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 12:55:38 PM, OreEle wrote:
Having questions answered by an expert (or atleast someone trained on the subject) > having questions answered by a random person on the internet.

If you know where to look, "random people" on the internet are far more knowledgeable than the so-called "experts" in public schools. Most public schools are glorified daycare centers; the people who work there are trained to regurgitate a simple curriculum (whether or not the kids actually learn it doesn't really matter), fill out paperwork, and yell at unruly kids. There are millions of people who have the necessary "expertise" to teach, but my state (New York) is so ridiculous as to require an MA in education to teach. All this does is make it artificially difficult for competent people to become teachers. In middle school I had a history teacher who didn't know when the Civil War ended and a math teacher who didn't understand basic probability, but if a retired Yale professor applied for either of those jobs he couldn't have gotten it because he would lack the "expertise" of an education degree (education, of course, being the most difficult of all majors).
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 10:23:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:12:35 PM, Grape wrote:
At 3/28/2011 12:55:38 PM, OreEle wrote:
Having questions answered by an expert (or atleast someone trained on the subject) > having questions answered by a random person on the internet.

If you know where to look, "random people" on the internet are far more knowledgeable than the so-called "experts" in public schools. Most public schools are glorified daycare centers; the people who work there are trained to regurgitate a simple curriculum (whether or not the kids actually learn it doesn't really matter), fill out paperwork, and yell at unruly kids. There are millions of people who have the necessary "expertise" to teach, but my state (New York) is so ridiculous as to require an MA in education to teach. All this does is make it artificially difficult for competent people to become teachers. In middle school I had a history teacher who didn't know when the Civil War ended and a math teacher who didn't understand basic probability, but if a retired Yale professor applied for either of those jobs he couldn't have gotten it because he would lack the "expertise" of an education degree (education, of course, being the most difficult of all majors).

A retired Yale professor could not survive on a public teacher's pay.

The smartest person I have ever known was my high school English teacher, a black woman from the South who was very eloquent and challenged me greatly. None of my instructors at a community college nor my university demonstrated mastery of the subjects they taught than she did with English.
Grape
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3/28/2011 11:09:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 10:23:31 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:12:35 PM, Grape wrote:
At 3/28/2011 12:55:38 PM, OreEle wrote:
Having questions answered by an expert (or atleast someone trained on the subject) > having questions answered by a random person on the internet.

If you know where to look, "random people" on the internet are far more knowledgeable than the so-called "experts" in public schools. Most public schools are glorified daycare centers; the people who work there are trained to regurgitate a simple curriculum (whether or not the kids actually learn it doesn't really matter), fill out paperwork, and yell at unruly kids. There are millions of people who have the necessary "expertise" to teach, but my state (New York) is so ridiculous as to require an MA in education to teach. All this does is make it artificially difficult for competent people to become teachers. In middle school I had a history teacher who didn't know when the Civil War ended and a math teacher who didn't understand basic probability, but if a retired Yale professor applied for either of those jobs he couldn't have gotten it because he would lack the "expertise" of an education degree (education, of course, being the most difficult of all majors).

A retired Yale professor could not survive on a public teacher's pay.


A retired person would not take a job for pay. Retired people sometimes work doing something they enjoy because they no longer depend on the income.

The smartest person I have ever known was my high school English teacher, a black woman from the South who was very eloquent and challenged me greatly. None of my instructors at a community college nor my university demonstrated mastery of the subjects they taught than she did with English.

What is the point that you are trying to make? That some high school teachers are intelligent? That is of course true, but they certainly didn't need those credentials to become high school teachers. All you need to become a high school teacher is the ability to pass easy courses at a university and watch kids all day, and even then the requirements are artificially high (most of the courses are totally useless and unnecessary).

I don't want to get in to a battle of useless anecdotes. I'd debate you on public education (and about 30 other topics) if you weren't too high and mighty to debate the lowly Grape.
phantom
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3/31/2011 12:07:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 4:58:14 PM, Koopin wrote:
Koopin is home-schooled.

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"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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3/31/2011 12:11:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Every thing but home schooling should be banned. ;D
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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3/31/2011 12:12:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
that sig didn't work... stupid formatting
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)