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Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/28/2011 3:06:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 10:35:30 AM, flames wrote:
What do you think is the best way to reform healthcare

Kill all humans. No humans, no need for healthcare. Problem solved.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/28/2011 3:17:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
We should let the government run it, because everything they touch turns to gold.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 4:05:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:06:35 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:35:30 AM, flames wrote:
What do you think is the best way to reform healthcare

Kill all humans. No humans, no need for healthcare. Problem solved.

Then you should definitely support Republican efforts, as the corporate health care status quo is doing a good job at killing Americans, to the tune of 50,000 deaths per year resulting from lack of access to basic care for about 1/3rd of Americans.

That's right, its a 9/11 death toll happening more than 15 times every single year. Yay for 1,300 HMO CEOs getting $10 million apiece at the expense of 50,000 worthless lives of unwealthy Americans every year!
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/28/2011 5:15:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 4:05:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:06:35 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:35:30 AM, flames wrote:
What do you think is the best way to reform healthcare

Kill all humans. No humans, no need for healthcare. Problem solved.

Then you should definitely support Republican efforts, as the corporate health care status quo is doing a good job at killing Americans, to the tune of 50,000 deaths per year resulting from lack of access to basic care for about 1/3rd of Americans.

That's right, its a 9/11 death toll happening more than 15 times every single year. Yay for 1,300 HMO CEOs getting $10 million apiece at the expense of 50,000 worthless lives of unwealthy Americans every year!

I wonder why no one takes you seriously.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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3/28/2011 6:12:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:58:21 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
The government created NASA, which discovered the moon. Did you fail to realize that?

I lol'd.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/28/2011 7:09:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 6:12:52 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:58:21 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
The government created NASA, which discovered the moon. Did you fail to realize that?

I lol'd.

Hah me too
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 10:04:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 5:15:35 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Because everyone professes to have a greater mastery of medicine than the Harvard School of Medicine who conducted the full-fledged medical research study and reached that conclusion.

You do, of course, have good reason to dispute the Harvard School of Medicine's medical research study?
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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3/28/2011 10:08:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 4:05:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:06:35 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:35:30 AM, flames wrote:
What do you think is the best way to reform healthcare

Kill all humans. No humans, no need for healthcare. Problem solved.

Even though health insurance company CEO pay + profits is only about 1/3 of a percent of health care costs, they're the main problems with America's health care system.
OK.
Should we subsidize education?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 10:14:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 10:08:05 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Even though health insurance company CEO pay + profits is only about 1/3 of a percent of health care costs, they're the main problems with America's health care system.
OK.

You just committed forgery by changing what I wrote while fraudulently signing my name, sir.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 10:26:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 10:14:09 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:08:05 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Even though health insurance company CEO pay + profits is only about 1/3 of a percent of health care costs, they're the main problems with America's health care system.
OK.

You just committed forgery by changing what I wrote while fraudulently signing my name, sir.

Get a lawyer, Pervrat. Or a sense of humor. The choice is yours. ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/28/2011 11:35:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 10:04:40 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 5:15:35 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Because everyone professes to have a greater mastery of medicine than the Harvard School of Medicine who conducted the full-fledged medical research study and reached that conclusion.

You do, of course, have good reason to dispute the Harvard School of Medicine's medical research study?

I'm sorry I could have sworn nothing you said had anything to do with Harvard? I have no idea where you got Harvard school of medicine or where you are going with it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 11:53:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 11:35:05 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:04:40 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 5:15:35 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Because everyone professes to have a greater mastery of medicine than the Harvard School of Medicine who conducted the full-fledged medical research study and reached that conclusion.

You do, of course, have good reason to dispute the Harvard School of Medicine's medical research study?

I'm sorry I could have sworn nothing you said had anything to do with Harvard? I have no idea where you got Harvard school of medicine or where you are going with it.

The Harvard School of Medicine conducted the medical research study into the effects of lack of access to health care among U.S. citizens, the very finding you snarkly rejected with your 'no one takes you seriously' remark.

Okay, granted, I did exaggerate slightly -- the number was 45,000 per year, not 50,000 ... but I'll grant myself rounding leeway as it had been a couple years since I read the report. Here's a news article describing the study and findings: http://www.reuters.com...

I wonder why you don't take facts established by medical research studies seriously. I guess they just get in the way of your world-view.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/29/2011 12:29:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 4:05:27 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:06:35 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:35:30 AM, flames wrote:
What do you think is the best way to reform healthcare

Kill all humans. No humans, no need for healthcare. Problem solved.

Then you should definitely support Republican efforts, as the corporate health care status quo is doing a good job at killing Americans, to the tune of 50,000 deaths per year resulting from lack of access to basic care for about 1/3rd of Americans.

Here it is for you, Our healthcare system isn't killing people. Diseases kill people, healthcare helps people.
You talk like people are somehow entitled to healthcare, they aren't.
No one is entitled to a doctors service.
Harvard medicine doesn't support your one sided statement, it supports your 50k number.
Harvard medicine also doesn't your claim that people are entitled to someone else's labor.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 3:03:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:17:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
We should let the government run it, because everything they touch turns to gold.

The government created NASA, which discovered the moon. Did you fail to realize that

Moon rocks collected during the course of lunar exploration are currently considered priceless. In 1993, three small fragments from Luna 16, weighing 0.2 g, were sold for US$ 442,500

I hate to say this, but both Lewis AND Rob are correct!
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 3:07:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 11:53:14 PM, PervRat wrote:

Okay, granted, I did exaggerate slightly -- the number was 45,000 per year, not 50,000 ... but I'll grant myself rounding leeway as it had been a couple years since I read the report. Here's a news article describing the study and findings: http://www.reuters.com...

I wonder why you don't take facts established by medical research studies seriously. I guess they just get in the way of your world-view.

Pervrat have you ever explored the possibility that artificially boosting the 80-100 year old population bracket in the world may have some seriously unintended and undesirable consequences?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/29/2011 3:17:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:07:54 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/28/2011 11:53:14 PM, PervRat wrote:

Okay, granted, I did exaggerate slightly -- the number was 45,000 per year, not 50,000 ... but I'll grant myself rounding leeway as it had been a couple years since I read the report. Here's a news article describing the study and findings: http://www.reuters.com...

I wonder why you don't take facts established by medical research studies seriously. I guess they just get in the way of your world-view.

Pervrat have you ever explored the possibility that artificially boosting the 80-100 year old population bracket in the world may have some seriously unintended and undesirable consequences?

The study specifically excluded anyone over the age of 62, and only projected the number of Americans who die each year from a medically preventable cause due to not having adequate health coverage.

If you had read the article, you would have known that. The average life expectancy for someone who has little or no regular access to health care is much lower than those who do have regular access to health care.

Further, the United States has a much lower life expectancy than most nations that have universal health care, so your argument actually touches on a topic that supports my position.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 3:23:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:17:56 AM, PervRat wrote:

Pervrat have you ever explored the possibility that artificially boosting the 80-100 year old population bracket in the world may have some seriously unintended and undesirable consequences?

The study specifically excluded anyone over the age of 62, and only projected the number of Americans who die each year from a medically preventable cause due to not having adequate health coverage.

If you had read the article, you would have known that. The average life expectancy for someone who has little or no regular access to health care is much lower than those who do have regular access to health care.

Further, the United States has a much lower life expectancy than most nations that have universal health care, so your argument actually touches on a topic that supports my position.

America. Live hard, die young.
Or, there is always The Fountain of Socialism!
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/29/2011 3:28:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 12:29:37 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Here it is for you, Our healthcare system isn't killing people. Diseases kill people, healthcare helps people.

LACK of health care kills people. Neglect constitutes manslaughter. If you let your baby starve to death, you are committing manslaughter. Similarly, if you leave the scene of an accident without at least contacting authorities, and someone who needs urgent care dies, you are guilty of manslaughter. By the same token, if you vote to put 50,000 people to death, you are responsible for those deaths.

Thousands died during Hurricane Katrina due to political neglect. Several people died during the collapse of the Big Dig in Boston due to corporate manslaughter from greed. People dying from lack of access to basic health care is no different, and your steadfast opposition to allowing every person equal access to health care makes YOU responsible for those needless deaths.

You talk like people are somehow entitled to healthcare, they aren't.

You demand that HMO CEOs are somehow entitled to steal ten million dollars apiece, and their right to profit off others' sickness and misery exceeds the rights of 45,000 Americans to continue living each year.

I say 45,000 Americans collectively have more of a right to live by access to health care than 1,000 HMO CEOs have a right to profit obscenely.

No one is entitled to a doctors service.

Read that statement a few times and think on it ... no one is? Well, then, we do not have a health care system at all, since no one is allowed to have access to any doctor ... and here I was complaining because 100 million Americans have no regular access to medicine, you argue no one does.

Harvard medicine doesn't support your one sided statement, it supports your 50k number.

It certainly identifies the current system as causing a lot of deaths that do not occur in any nation that has universal health care, and proves that in terms of keeping Americans safe and healthy, our "health care system" is a complete failure -- and a fatal one. Why should we spend trillions of dollars chasing down a terrorist who killed a meager 3,000 Americans in a one time attack when we have terrorists running this country causing 50,000 deaths every single year?

Harvard medicine also doesn't your claim that people are entitled to someone else's labor.

You demand every employer is entitled to profit obscenely and very unequally from their workers, and no one has any right to life who isn't obscenely wealthy enough to afford it, and that HMO CEOs are entitled to take obscene amounts of money out of the health care system without actually providing a single pill of aspirin, and that it is okay for 45,000 Americans to die every single year just so 1,000 HMO CEOs can be obscenely wealthy.

Where are your ethics or morals?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/29/2011 3:30:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:23:05 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
America. Live hard, die young.
Or, there is always The Fountain of Socialism!

Nah, just rewarding slavery and military dictatorships with jobs the "free" people of the U.S. used to work, but those jobs are now in China where our already wealthy business tycoons can reap in massive profits on goods made with forced, unpaid labor. Except ... since Americans have so few jobs now, who is left to buy those products? Hmmm, maybe that is another reason the economy is in the dumps ...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 3:33:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Did the Harvard study include people that were uninsured voluntarily because they hate doctors and want to die naturally? Why is is just a given in all these healthcare discussions that ALL people LOVE hospitals and doctors? If there is one thing I know, is that when it comes to human desires, NOTHING is universal. Death and Taxes may be constants, but people do NOT have Universal opinion on these matters at all.

The hubris is just crazy!
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/29/2011 3:39:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:33:23 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Did the Harvard study include people that were uninsured voluntarily because they hate doctors and want to die naturally? Why is is just a given in all these healthcare discussions that ALL people LOVE hospitals and doctors? If there is one thing I know, is that when it comes to human desires, NOTHING is universal. Death and Taxes may be constants, but people do NOT have Universal opinion on these matters at all.

The hubris is just crazy!

The vast majority of people with no regular access to medicine are not so lacking voluntarily. Some 100 million or so Americans either have no health insurance, or have inadequate health insurance ... this is not voluntary, and the only cause of death that comes even close to killing off the number of Americans that lack of health coverage does are automobile collisions. Its well above the number of deaths caused by smoking, cancer, war, terrorism, murder or suicide.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 3:41:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:39:37 AM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:33:23 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Did the Harvard study include people that were uninsured voluntarily because they hate doctors and want to die naturally? Why is is just a given in all these healthcare discussions that ALL people LOVE hospitals and doctors? If there is one thing I know, is that when it comes to human desires, NOTHING is universal. Death and Taxes may be constants, but people do NOT have Universal opinion on these matters at all.

The hubris is just crazy!

The vast majority of people with no regular access to medicine are not so lacking voluntarily. Some 100 million or so Americans either have no health insurance, or have inadequate health insurance ... this is not voluntary, and the only cause of death that comes even close to killing off the number of Americans that lack of health coverage does are automobile collisions. Its well above the number of deaths caused by smoking, cancer, war, terrorism, murder or suicide.

There is a HUGE difference between making healthcare affordable and making healthcare mandatory.

Universal = buzzword for abusive power.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/29/2011 3:49:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:41:03 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:39:37 AM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:33:23 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Did the Harvard study include people that were uninsured voluntarily because they hate doctors and want to die naturally? Why is is just a given in all these healthcare discussions that ALL people LOVE hospitals and doctors? If there is one thing I know, is that when it comes to human desires, NOTHING is universal. Death and Taxes may be constants, but people do NOT have Universal opinion on these matters at all.

The hubris is just crazy!

The vast majority of people with no regular access to medicine are not so lacking voluntarily. Some 100 million or so Americans either have no health insurance, or have inadequate health insurance ... this is not voluntary, and the only cause of death that comes even close to killing off the number of Americans that lack of health coverage does are automobile collisions. Its well above the number of deaths caused by smoking, cancer, war, terrorism, murder or suicide.

There is a HUGE difference between making healthcare affordable and making healthcare mandatory.

Universal = buzzword for abusive power.

Tell that to Canadians and Europeans. How many of them want to turn health care back over to HMO CEOs? Here's a clue: Very very few.

"Privatization" is the word you were looking for as a buzzword for abusive power.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 3:52:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Would you be for closing all USA hospitals to the Canadians that come into the country solely for healthcare then?

If that is the case, maybe Universal healthcare would be neat. Darn Canucks!
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/29/2011 4:12:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:52:49 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Would you be for closing all USA hospitals to the Canadians that come into the country solely for healthcare then?

If that is the case, maybe Universal healthcare would be neat. Darn Canucks!

More Canadians support their health care system than Americans; no Canadians die from lack of regular access to health care while 45,000 Americans do every year. How many Canadians did you say escape or want to escape the evil of universal health care to come here and die from not having regular access to health care again?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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3/29/2011 4:17:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:12:55 AM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:52:49 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
Would you be for closing all USA hospitals to the Canadians that come into the country solely for healthcare then?

If that is the case, maybe Universal healthcare would be neat. Darn Canucks!

More Canadians support their health care system than Americans; no Canadians die from lack of regular access to health care while 45,000 Americans do every year. How many Canadians did you say escape or want to escape the evil of universal health care to come here and die from not having regular access to health care again?

Hopefully zero under your system.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/29/2011 12:27:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:28:10 AM, PervRat wrote:
Where are your ethics or morals?

Right here, you aren't entitled to someone else's labor.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler