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Donald Trump for President?

SuzzaneO
Posts: 47
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3/28/2011 7:39:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This can't be serious. The man is a moron. While discussing politics and Muammar Qaddafi, he literally said, "I dealt with Gaddafi. I rented him a piece of land. He paid me more for one night than the land was worth for two years, and then I didn't let him use the land. That's what we should be doing. I don't want to use the word 'screwed', but I screwed him."

Yes please (sarcasm). Does anyone think this guy has a legitimate chance at a presidential run? Who in their right mind would vote for him?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 8:05:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And his turned toward Birtherism.

Good grief, nearly three-quarters of Republicans are either convinced absolutely, Obama is not American or aren't sure. When will Trump or Gingrich present their birth certificates and the doctors and nurses they demand of Obama who remember them on the actual days they were born?

FFS...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/29/2011 2:24:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And yeah, I do hope Donald Trump will run for president because the caucus debates will be a circus! Donald Trump, Sarah Palin, and Ron Paul sharing the same floor! LMAO!

And Trump apparently criticized Ron Paul so I'd love to see Ron Paul sweep the floor with Trump in a debate.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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3/29/2011 2:45:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Trump began his career at his father's company,[17] the Trump Organization, and initially concentrated on his father's preferred field of middle-class rental housing in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. One of Donald's first projects, while he was still in college, was the revitalization of the foreclosed Swifton Village apartment complex in Cincinnati, Ohio, which his father had purchased for 5.7 million dollars in 1962. Donald became intimately involved in the project, personally flying in for a few days at a time to carry out landscaping and other low-level tasks. After $500,000 investment, Donald successfully turned a 1200-unit complex with a 66% vacancy rate to 100% occupancy within two years. The Trump Organization sold Swifton Village for $6.75 million in 1972."

So hardly a self-made man then - he'd be nothing if he hadn't had a rich daddy.

And do the maths: $5.7m purchase price plus $500k investment totals $6.2m and the property was sold 10 years later for $6.75m: a profit of just $550k; that's only a 9% return, less than 1% per year - he would have made far more money if he'd put his daddy's cash in a simple savings account.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/29/2011 2:47:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

I actually agree with this. I hate birthers so much. They're so idiotic. On my old facebook account before it got deleted I actually had a few as friends, but then I got so fed up with them I called them out and then deleted them. Really, to me it just seems like an excuse to hate Obama since he's black.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 2:50:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:47:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

I actually agree with this. I hate birthers so much. They're so idiotic. On my old facebook account before it got deleted I actually had a few as friends, but then I got so fed up with them I called them out and then deleted them. Really, to me it just seems like an excuse to hate Obama since he's black.

Well, it is an excuse to hate Obama. It's hard to say (logically) that they are grasping at those straws because he his black.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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3/29/2011 2:52:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:50:35 PM, OreEle wrote:

Well, it is an excuse to hate Obama. It's hard to say (logically) that they are grasping at those straws because he his black.

No, it's because of his Kenyan father and middle name(Hussein) mostly I think. It's still idiotic though.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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3/29/2011 2:55:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:47:07 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

I actually agree with this. I hate birthers so much. They're so idiotic. On my old facebook account before it got deleted I actually had a few as friends, but then I got so fed up with them I called them out and then deleted them. Really, to me it just seems like an excuse to hate Obama since he's black.

They are completely abandoning any merit-based criticisms in order to play politics. Donald Trump has already proven he is no better. He is riding in the fiscal-disaster train just like Bush rode in the terrorism train. Right-wingers always have a crisis to push (and they are the experts at controlling them of course) because they know that when America prospers, we start evening out the liberty and wealth.
kfc
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/29/2011 4:29:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.

I'm not arguing with your points on how it's a waste of time, but i get irritated by those who marginalize those who dare to question by calling them stupid, or racist. It's the most lazy, shallow argument. The racist thing really gets to me because it shows how politically vacuous they truly are.

Dare you question our president? You are a racist and stupid. It's so formulaic at this point its ridiculous, and so predictable. In this thread i was just waiting for the racist comment to be posted, and of course it was. It's just so damn predictable, and shows the level of group speak that goes on. People don't even know they're doing it. I can't blame younger people, they think they think for themselves, but it's a laugh riot to see them fall in line with what can be expected.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 4:40:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:29:39 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.

I'm not arguing with your points on how it's a waste of time, but i get irritated by those who marginalize those who dare to question by calling them stupid, or racist. It's the most lazy, shallow argument. The racist thing really gets to me because it shows how politically vacuous they truly are.

Of course, as I pointed out earlier that I don't believe that it is related to his skin color (when someone else made that claim).


Dare you question our president? You are a racist and stupid. It's so formulaic at this point its ridiculous, and so predictable. In this thread i was just waiting for the racist comment to be posted, and of course it was. It's just so damn predictable, and shows the level of group speak that goes on. People don't even know they're doing it. I can't blame younger people, they think they think for themselves, but it's a laugh riot to see them fall in line with what can be expected.

It really is in one way or another. Either it is "racist" or if you questioned the war you're an "unamerican terrorist" (or some variation). Or you're just a "racist tea-bagger" or you're just a "communist" or whatever. The thing with these ad hominems, is that they work on majority of people. Most people don't want to put the effort into understanding politics and real world events and such. They don't want to spend a lot of time researching different political philosophies or candidates or how certain policies may effect the economy, or the environment, or the price of a gallon of gas. They want someone to do their thinking for them, so that they can get back with their lives.

My wife is a perfect example of this. She hates politics, and politicians, and the news in general. She'd rather just live her life, go to work, have fun on the weekend with friends, and not worry about any of that stuff. Every election she asks me who to vote for and I try to get her involved and she just doesn't want to. In the end I usually get her to finish voting by talking about it in the car (as she can't get away from it there).

It took us 3 trips to the beach in 2008 just to get through her entire voter's pamphlet, and it is an hour drive each way (actually about 70 - 80 minutes, pending traffic).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:40:28 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:29:39 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.

I'm not arguing with your points on how it's a waste of time, but i get irritated by those who marginalize those who dare to question by calling them stupid, or racist. It's the most lazy, shallow argument. The racist thing really gets to me because it shows how politically vacuous they truly are.

Of course, as I pointed out earlier that I don't believe that it is related to his skin color (when someone else made that claim).


Dare you question our president? You are a racist and stupid. It's so formulaic at this point its ridiculous, and so predictable. In this thread i was just waiting for the racist comment to be posted, and of course it was. It's just so damn predictable, and shows the level of group speak that goes on. People don't even know they're doing it. I can't blame younger people, they think they think for themselves, but it's a laugh riot to see them fall in line with what can be expected.

It really is in one way or another. Either it is "racist" or if you questioned the war you're an "unamerican terrorist" (or some variation). Or you're just a "racist tea-bagger" or you're just a "communist" or whatever. The thing with these ad hominems, is that they work on majority of people. Most people don't want to put the effort into understanding politics and real world events and such. They don't want to spend a lot of time researching different political philosophies or candidates or how certain policies may effect the economy, or the environment, or the price of a gallon of gas. They want someone to do their thinking for them, so that they can get back with their lives.

My wife is a perfect example of this. She hates politics, and politicians, and the news in general. She'd rather just live her life, go to work, have fun on the weekend with friends, and not worry about any of that stuff. Every election she asks me who to vote for and I try to get her involved and she just doesn't want to. In the end I usually get her to finish voting by talking about it in the car (as she can't get away from it there).

It took us 3 trips to the beach in 2008 just to get through her entire voter's pamphlet, and it is an hour drive each way (actually about 70 - 80 minutes, pending traffic).

I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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3/29/2011 4:49:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:29:39 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.

I'm not arguing with your points on how it's a waste of time, but i get irritated by those who marginalize those who dare to question by calling them stupid, or racist. It's the most lazy, shallow argument. The racist thing really gets to me because it shows how politically vacuous they truly are.

Dare you question our president? You are a racist and stupid. It's so formulaic at this point its ridiculous, and so predictable. In this thread i was just waiting for the racist comment to be posted, and of course it was. It's just so damn predictable, and shows the level of group speak that goes on. People don't even know they're doing it. I can't blame younger people, they think they think for themselves, but it's a laugh riot to see them fall in line with what can be expected.

Ok but that is not my state of mind nor is it my method of argumentation. I don't dismiss their claims because I think they're "racist" I dismiss their claims because the claims themselves are ridiculous and without warrant nor of any importance.

Also, innomen, you should be well aware that I don't take sides with either Democrat or Republican so it's rather trite to be claimging that I wouldn't criticize the left in the same manner.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/29/2011 4:54:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM, innomen wrote:
I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.

0 x 2 is still 0.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 4:54:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:54:03 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM, innomen wrote:
I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.

0 x 2 is still 0.

1 x 2 is 2
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/29/2011 4:55:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:49:26 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:29:39 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.

I'm not arguing with your points on how it's a waste of time, but i get irritated by those who marginalize those who dare to question by calling them stupid, or racist. It's the most lazy, shallow argument. The racist thing really gets to me because it shows how politically vacuous they truly are.

Dare you question our president? You are a racist and stupid. It's so formulaic at this point its ridiculous, and so predictable. In this thread i was just waiting for the racist comment to be posted, and of course it was. It's just so damn predictable, and shows the level of group speak that goes on. People don't even know they're doing it. I can't blame younger people, they think they think for themselves, but it's a laugh riot to see them fall in line with what can be expected.

Ok but that is not my state of mind nor is it my method of argumentation. I don't dismiss their claims because I think they're "racist" I dismiss their claims because the claims themselves are ridiculous and without warrant nor of any importance.

Also, innomen, you should be well aware that I don't take sides with either Democrat or Republican so it's rather trite to be claimging that I wouldn't criticize the left in the same manner.

I'm not saying that you're taking sides but rather are a subject of the same group think. The claims are not without merit, they are just not relevant at this time. There are some significant reasons to think that something is not right with his birth, but at this point chasing that argument is a waste of time. What was the last thing i heard? He has been using a fake social security number or something like that? I really don't mind these questions being raised, but i would have preferred them done before the election, at this point it's just pointless to pursue it.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 5:06:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:55:08 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:49:26 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:29:39 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:00:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 3:11:05 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:49:17 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:33:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/29/2011 2:21:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:34:08 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 10:27:04 AM, flames wrote:
birthers should just be ignored and hung

you mean "hanged" and no they shouldn't. You can't kill people for being ignorant.

Except they're not being ignorant. They're willfully ignorant and stupid for even making an issue about such a trivial meaningless nuance that is utterly irrelevant to his ability to lead.

Birthers shouldn't be hung, but they should be slapped around a bit and forced to stare at the Hawaiin newspaper that announced his birth along with his birth certificate for an unbearably long time and then be fed with an audio recording telling them why they're stupid for not even being a birther.

Seriously, there's thousands of people dying in wars, there's an economic crisis, gas prices are rising, there's a revolution in Egypt and people have the audacity to bring to the forefront such a trivial issue as someones birth certificate??

So this particular conspiracy is false, but the lizard people are true?

You missed the whole point. It's not that the birther conspiracy is wrong, it's that it is so trivial, worthless and not even worth mentioning or making an issue out of it.

If there were a Reptilian Conspiracy, indeed it would he newsworthy and an important issue to deal with!

The time has passed for it to be a legitimate issue at the moment, if that's what you mean. If it is a disqualification for his running for office, then sure. However, it's all political crap that both sides do. It's no different than when the dems were looking for Bush's military records. How about 911 being an inside job, is that acceptable?

I honestly don't mind people dissenting, and get irritated when sheep pounce on those who raise their hands and say something seems amiss here. It's almost cliche at this point to make people look stupid who question the leaders of the left.

Go ahead and question, but this is completely stupid thing to question. Make the questions about his policies, about his actions, about his handling of Libya, or the economy, or the bailouts, or healthcare, or how he's changed after losing the house, or this or that, but come on now.

I'm not arguing with your points on how it's a waste of time, but i get irritated by those who marginalize those who dare to question by calling them stupid, or racist. It's the most lazy, shallow argument. The racist thing really gets to me because it shows how politically vacuous they truly are.

Dare you question our president? You are a racist and stupid. It's so formulaic at this point its ridiculous, and so predictable. In this thread i was just waiting for the racist comment to be posted, and of course it was. It's just so damn predictable, and shows the level of group speak that goes on. People don't even know they're doing it. I can't blame younger people, they think they think for themselves, but it's a laugh riot to see them fall in line with what can be expected.

Ok but that is not my state of mind nor is it my method of argumentation. I don't dismiss their claims because I think they're "racist" I dismiss their claims because the claims themselves are ridiculous and without warrant nor of any importance.

Also, innomen, you should be well aware that I don't take sides with either Democrat or Republican so it's rather trite to be claimging that I wouldn't criticize the left in the same manner.

I'm not saying that you're taking sides but rather are a subject of the same group think. The claims are not without merit, they are just not relevant at this time. There are some significant reasons to think that something is not right with his birth, but at this point chasing that argument is a waste of time. What was the last thing i heard? He has been using a fake social security number or something like that? I really don't mind these questions being raised, but i would have preferred them done before the election, at this point it's just pointless to pursue it.

They are without merit, because they've already been addressed.

http://www.fightthesmears.com...
http://www.snopes.com...

Before anyone says "the black bar invalidates the birth certificate" the point is to show that it is real. I'm not going to show my real birth certificate to people, just like I'm not going to copy and paste my social security number all over the internet.

If you want to talk about any of the others, go for it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/29/2011 6:14:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 4:54:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:03 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM, innomen wrote:
I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.

0 x 2 is still 0.

1 x 2 is 2

Oh, well herpa derp derp! Gee, thanks, OreEle! I guess it was all a misunderstanding brought about by my inability to do simple arithmetic! But now I've seen the light! I no longer consider voting pointless!

Geez, there are some people on this site...sometimes I don't know why I even bother...
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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3/29/2011 6:16:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 6:14:05 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:03 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM, innomen wrote:
I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.

0 x 2 is still 0.

1 x 2 is 2

Oh, well herpa derp derp! Gee, thanks, OreEle! I guess it was all a misunderstanding brought about by my inability to do simple arithmetic! But now I've seen the light! I no longer consider voting pointless!

lol
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/29/2011 6:35:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 6:14:05 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:03 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM, innomen wrote:
I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.

0 x 2 is still 0.

1 x 2 is 2

Oh, well herpa derp derp! Gee, thanks, OreEle! I guess it was all a misunderstanding brought about by my inability to do simple arithmetic! But now I've seen the light! I no longer consider voting pointless!

Geez, there are some people on this site...sometimes I don't know why I even bother...

A single vote is about as meaningful as a single dollar. By itself, it doesn't get hardly anything done. But you get people to come together (with things like ideas) and ban their votes together, you can get more done. Just like if a bunch of people each chip in $1, you can do more with the money.

But if you'd rather not vote, that's fine. That's like throwing away a dollar, it's not gonna break anyone's budget.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/29/2011 6:43:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 6:35:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 6:14:05 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:54:03 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 3/29/2011 4:49:13 PM, innomen wrote:
I've had a few of those in my life too, and will soon have another. I look at it as i get multiple votes.

0 x 2 is still 0.

1 x 2 is 2

Oh, well herpa derp derp! Gee, thanks, OreEle! I guess it was all a misunderstanding brought about by my inability to do simple arithmetic! But now I've seen the light! I no longer consider voting pointless!

Geez, there are some people on this site...sometimes I don't know why I even bother...

A single vote is about as meaningful as a single dollar. By itself, it doesn't get hardly anything done. But you get people to come together (with things like ideas) and ban their votes together, you can get more done. Just like if a bunch of people each chip in $1, you can do more with the money.

Not even remotely analogous since anyone with just one dollar (ie. one vote) is effectively bankrupt. Additionally, the marginal benefit of voting is more like $0.02 according to Sieben's numbers.

But if you'd rather not vote, that's fine. That's like throwing away a dollar, it's not gonna break anyone's budget.

No one vote has ever decided a presidential election, yet at least a few thousand people have probably died driving to the polls. Not to mention the complete waste of an hour or so of your time.
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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3/29/2011 9:25:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 6:43:25 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:

Not even remotely analogous since anyone with just one dollar (ie. one vote) is effectively bankrupt. Additionally, the marginal benefit of voting is more like $0.02 according to Sieben's numbers.

Yeah, but that's still assuming that voter benefits are distributed 100% equally among the population, voters know exactly how much benefit they're going to receive, and that they're economically rational enough to decide against voting. In reality, someone might lose their job if the wrong guy wins an election, but they can't really know, so they don't take a chance by throwing away a vote, and many people have cultural and personal reasons for voting, as in many might view it as a responsibility, or whatever else.

No one vote has ever decided a presidential election, yet at least a few thousand people have probably died driving to the polls. Not to mention the complete waste of an hour or so of your time.

The chance of dying while driving to the voting booths is probably less than a vote actually making a difference. For the most part, voting takes relatively little energy to accomplish, which is why it's still not a bad trade-off, even when voting might not count for much.

This trend can be observed as well, for countries with less problems dealing with special interests, more political parties, and diseconomies of scale, tend to have higher voter turnout, and vice versa.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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3/29/2011 9:41:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/29/2011 9:25:15 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 3/29/2011 6:43:25 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:

Not even remotely analogous since anyone with just one dollar (ie. one vote) is effectively bankrupt. Additionally, the marginal benefit of voting is more like $0.02 according to Sieben's numbers.

Yeah, but that's still assuming that voter benefits are distributed 100% equally among the population, voters know exactly how much benefit they're going to receive, and that they're economically rational enough to decide against voting. In reality,

Again, all of these count in favor of democracy. The second they get violated democracy falls apart even more.

someone might lose their job if the wrong guy wins an election, but they can't really know, so they don't take a chance by throwing away a vote, and many people have cultural and personal reasons for voting, as in many might view it as a responsibility, or whatever else.

Actually, the EXPECTED benefit of one CORRECT vote is $0.02. The benefit if the right guy wins is actually $33,000. So the benefits are very very non-trivial. Comparable to losing your job.

No one vote has ever decided a presidential election, yet at least a few thousand people have probably died driving to the polls. Not to mention the complete waste of an hour or so of your time.

The chance of dying while driving to the voting booths is probably less than a vote actually making a difference.

Zzzz everything is lip service with you. Here. I'll do the basic arithmetic for you while you finish writing your report on that Canterbury tale were the guy double poisons everyone and the ironically poisons himself (lolirony) .

Accident Rates http://en.wikipedia.org...

Excessively conservative death valuation http://answers.yahoo.com... (10*40k/yr = $400k/death)

And it differs by state, so I'll assume again very generously that polling booths are 1 mile away from everyone - and you have to drive BACK! So 2 miles...

1.5 deaths / 100,000,000 miles * 2 mile / ballot * $400,000/death = $.012

Which is less than the $0.02 expected value of voting. But that brings the net benefit to voting intelligently to $0.008, which is under a penny.

So if you live 2 miles away from a voting booth, the NPV is negative. If traffic is congested and accident chances double, the NPV is negative. If you don't have life insurance, the NPV is negative.

And again, it takes you 5 minutes to vote, you are working for several orders of magnitude below minimum wage. I don't even bend over to pick up pennies dude. This is 80% of a penny.

For the most part, voting takes relatively little energy to accomplish, which is why it's still not a bad trade-off, even when voting might not count for much.

The actual act of stamping a ballot? Yes. Navigating the deceptive world of politics? No. Overcoming the incentive to vote based on personal self image? No.

This trend can be observed as well, for countries with less problems dealing with special interests, more political parties, and diseconomies of scale, tend to have higher voter turnout, and vice versa.

We think voter turnout depends on emotive/tribal/fashionable motivations rather than rationality or intelligence.
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