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World War II Alternate History Topic

Extremely-Far-Right
Posts: 248
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3/31/2011 10:08:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I would like to talk about some alternate history in World War II and some real history, especially from 1939-1941.

The first question that I have regarding real history is:
If Britain and France were allied with Poland and the 3 had an agreement to assist the other nation should one come under attack, why did Britain and France only declare war on Germany and not the Soviet Union? Remember, Poland was secretly part of the 1939 non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Why did Britain and France only declare war on Nazi Germany when the the Soviet Union also invaded Poland?

Here is the alternate history question:

Does anyone think Stalin would have invaded Nazi Germany if Hitler didn't invade Russia first? Or for that matter at all? I find this increasingly likely noticing how Stalin didn't like the Nazis among other things as well.

What do people here think?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/31/2011 10:20:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 10:08:27 AM, Extremely-Far-Right wrote:
I would like to talk about some alternate history in World War II and some real history, especially from 1939-1941.

The first question that I have regarding real history is:
If Britain and France were allied with Poland and the 3 had an agreement to assist the other nation should one come under attack, why did Britain and France only declare war on Germany and not the Soviet Union? Remember, Poland was secretly part of the 1939 non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Why did Britain and France only declare war on Nazi Germany when the the Soviet Union also invaded Poland?

Here is the alternate history question:

Does anyone think Stalin would have invaded Nazi Germany if Hitler didn't invade Russia first? Or for that matter at all?

Yes, we know he was planning on it. Read "Stalin's secret war plans," writen by a former russian spy who had access to classified documents.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/31/2011 2:57:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 10:08:27 AM, Extremely-Far-Right wrote:
I would like to talk about some alternate history in World War II and some real history, especially from 1939-1941.

The first question that I have regarding real history is:
If Britain and France were allied with Poland and the 3 had an agreement to assist the other nation should one come under attack, why did Britain and France only declare war on Germany and not the Soviet Union? Remember, Poland was secretly part of the 1939 non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Why did Britain and France only declare war on Nazi Germany when the the Soviet Union also invaded Poland?

Here is the alternate history question:

Does anyone think Stalin would have invaded Nazi Germany if Hitler didn't invade Russia first? Or for that matter at all? I find this increasingly likely noticing how Stalin didn't like the Nazis among other things as well.

What do people here think?

At that time the last thing they needed in the Soviet Union was a war. This was still during their somewhat formative years, and they were struggling with the collectivization system not working as they thought it would. Internally the Soviets were having their own power struggles, and overt wars were certainly not in their sights. Lenin preached continuously "peaceful coexistence", and really were not about hot wars. Covertly they were quite active internationally, but a hot war was just more than they could embark on. Keep in mind that the Ukrainians were starving so that the industrial centers could thrive.

Hitler was a moron for attacking the USSR.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/31/2011 2:59:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 2:57:10 PM, Extremely-Far-Right wrote:
I'm trying to locate it right now, but I can't find it on the internet.

I've studied this inside and out and there is no realistic plan that was on the table. Stalin had his people jumping through hoops with all sorts of options, but never was it realistically entertained. They had nothing to fight with. They had to borrow from everyone as it was.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/31/2011 3:08:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Here's an alternate history that would have changed EVERYTHING.

If Czar Nicholas had allowed the Duma to exist and have even the smallest amount of power, just shared power with a representative congress all of history would have changed. Not just there in Russia, but everything that touched it afterward. I'm not even sure that WWII would have broken out like it had. Well, probably something would have come of Hitler, but i think everything would have been different if the Russian revolution was averted by that small gesture of the Czar.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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3/31/2011 3:17:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 10:08:27 AM, Extremely-Far-Right wrote:
Does anyone think Stalin would have invaded Nazi Germany if Hitler didn't invade Russia first?

Nope.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/31/2011 3:40:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 2:59:42 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/31/2011 2:57:10 PM, Extremely-Far-Right wrote:
I'm trying to locate it right now, but I can't find it on the internet.

I've studied this inside and out and there is no realistic plan that was on the table. Stalin had his people jumping through hoops with all sorts of options, but never was it realistically entertained. They had nothing to fight with. They had to borrow from everyone as it was.

I assume that you've read "Stumbling Colossus" and "Icebreaker," as well as the "Stalin's missed chance" study.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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3/31/2011 3:43:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/31/2011 3:40:38 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 3/31/2011 2:59:42 PM, innomen wrote:
At 3/31/2011 2:57:10 PM, Extremely-Far-Right wrote:
I'm trying to locate it right now, but I can't find it on the internet.

I've studied this inside and out and there is no realistic plan that was on the table. Stalin had his people jumping through hoops with all sorts of options, but never was it realistically entertained. They had nothing to fight with. They had to borrow from everyone as it was.

I assume that you've read "Stumbling Colossus" and "Icebreaker," as well as the "Stalin's missed chance" study.

No, but would you like to debate this? Although it may have been an option on the table, it would never have been taken seiously.
I have my share of books.