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European style govt & multiparty system

Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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4/7/2011 10:25:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Should the U.S. move to increase the legitimacy of third parties? Perhaps a European-style congress would serve our needs better, with its % make-up reflecting the voting population. Or is the system we have not broken, and therefore not to be fixed?

Wiki says that the EU operates "according to the principle of subsidiarity (which dictates that action by the EU should only be taken where an objective cannot be sufficiently achieved by the member states alone)."

With parties broken down into many parts, as well as the nat'l gov't broken down similarly, it would theoretically be much more equitable. No?
kfc
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/7/2011 11:22:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Europe's governments suck too. Why replace suck with suck?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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4/7/2011 2:42:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't know enough about the issue to distinguish between parliamentary and presidential governments, so I'm just going to make a useless comment to bump the thread so that someone else might tell us.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/7/2011 5:02:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 2:42:05 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
I don't know enough about the issue to distinguish between parliamentary and presidential governments, so I'm just going to make a useless comment to bump the thread so that someone else might tell us.

I'm no expert either, but I do know that the US system leads to too much polarity. Having at least one third party, that actually has a chance of winning is always good.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/7/2011 5:29:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 5:27:54 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
A shortage of political opinion on DDO?

Certainly a shortage of varying viewpoints, yes.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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4/7/2011 5:36:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The U.S. definitely needs to make third parties more legitamite. And I'm not just saying that because the Democrats and Republicans are both capitalist pigs.
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PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 6:03:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Unfortuantely, the GOP and DNC have a virtual stranglehold in the U.S., and both partes -- occasionally in lockstep unison with each other -- have actively moved to suppress the rights of "third parties" as well as voters by establishing (and suing to establish) a "declare your party as Republican or Democrat" type requisite for primary elections in a variety of states. In such states, if you do not categorize yourself specifically as either a Democrat or Republican, you may not participate in "primary" elections which can include ballot initiatives, denying your right to vote if you do not declare an affiliation for either party. :/
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/7/2011 9:55:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 5:36:20 PM, socialpinko wrote:
The U.S. definitely needs to make third parties more legitamite. And I'm not just saying that because the Democrats and Republicans are both capitalist pigs.

I'd say break them into four. Have the republican break into conservative and religious right. And the democrats into progressive and socialist.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/7/2011 10:03:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think the two party system here is only the fault of the peoples. I don't think its some great injustice that there are only two main parties to pick from, I think it's that the people aren't educated enough or willing to look at alternatives. Majority of people blindly follow one party or another.
Independents are either just looking for the lesser of two evils or are unwilling commit to a third party IMO
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 4:29:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I used to think it would be a great thing to have multi parties, but then i looked a little closer at the European experience. I don't think that coalition governments are good, they seem to be unholy alliances for the convenience of self-interest.

I also cannot imgine a president being elected by say 28% of the country, it just sounds unthinkable in the American experience.

Also, even though there are two parties, there is tremendous disparity within those parties, so there is variance within our system, but the politicians are compelled to use a party for finacial and foot soldier support.

I dispise political parties and really think that the best thing any American can do with the system we have is to remain independent in their party affiliation.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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4/8/2011 12:53:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 4:29:44 AM, innomen wrote:
I used to think it would be a great thing to have multi parties, but then i looked a little closer at the European experience. I don't think that coalition governments are good, they seem to be unholy alliances for the convenience of self-interest.

I also cannot imgine a president being elected by say 28% of the country, it just sounds unthinkable in the American experience.

Also, even though there are two parties, there is tremendous disparity within those parties, so there is variance within our system, but the politicians are compelled to use a party for finacial and foot soldier support.

I dispise political parties and really think that the best thing any American can do with the system we have is to remain independent in their party affiliation.

All good points; I would add that parties are inherently illogical anyway; no two people have the exact same political views. And there's only one thing keeping parties FIRMLY in power; and that is the party that you are more scared of. For Republicans, they understand that if they let down their guard that Democrats will immediately fill the seats and start turning us into the U.A.S.R.; for Democrats, it will be similar to the Empire Strikes Back if we stop unifying against the dark side.

All that perpetuates our problems is fear tactics. A vote for Obama is a chance to fight back against the Empire, and a vote for whoever the Rep candidate will be is a vote against a socialist collapse and bankruptcy.
kfc
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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4/8/2011 1:05:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Parliamentary democracies and the coalition governments that they often produce are fundamentally flawed because they are weak.

Sometimes radical legislation that needs to be passed in the best interests of the country cannot become law without being heavily diluted down to suit the political mandates of all the coalition partners.

I'd opt for the two party, US-style of government every time.

And, if I could, I'd replace the Queen with an elected head of state as well!
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 1:16:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 1:05:56 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Parliamentary democracies and the coalition governments that they often produce are fundamentally flawed because they are weak.

Sometimes radical legislation that needs to be passed in the best interests of the country cannot become law without being heavily diluted down to suit the political mandates of all the coalition partners.

I'd opt for the two party, US-style of government every time.

And, if I could, I'd replace the Queen with an elected head of state as well!

It'd be easier to just move.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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4/8/2011 2:09:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Any discussion of U.S. politics:

1) America is great! Founding fathers, checks and balances, etc.
2) America has problems! Income disparity, military involvement overseas, pollution, waste, etc.
---
3) America has problems, but is still the greatest system ever built, and any other system has problems x, y, and z that we don't have.

I for one am tired of ending on this note, while so many problems go blatantly unanswered on our planet. For instance, technology is going to reach a point sometime where our military's supreme advantage may become neutralized. Then we won't be so damn cozy.
kfc
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 2:25:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:09:04 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
Any discussion of U.S. politics:

1) America is great! Founding fathers, checks and balances, etc.
2) America has problems! Income disparity, military involvement overseas, pollution, waste, etc.
---
3) America has problems, but is still the greatest system ever built, and any other system has problems x, y, and z that we don't have.

I for one am tired of ending on this note, while so many problems go blatantly unanswered on our planet. For instance, technology is going to reach a point sometime where our military's supreme advantage may become neutralized. Then we won't be so damn cozy.

Rob, you live in a world where you only see problems, and rarely see the solutions, it's not your fault. There is no system on the planet that can address every problem, and most that think they can, generally end up creating a catastrophe. Maybe the best isn't good enough, but it is the best for us. I never kid myself and think that our system should be exported elsewhere because that's arrogant egocentric thinking. However, for us here, it's the best we can do.

I do give you credit in a post above where you admit your guys are driving us to bankruptcy.