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Balanced Budget amendment?

Ore_Ele
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4/8/2011 2:18:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Would the republicans (driven by the tea party) ever be willing to put forth a constitutional amendment, requiring the federal government to have a balanced budget each and every year?

I'm safely willing to bet that the democrats would never do that.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 2:33:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:18:54 PM, OreEle wrote:
Would the republicans (driven by the tea party) ever be willing to put forth a constitutional amendment, requiring the federal government to have a balanced budget each and every year?

I'm safely willing to bet that the democrats would never do that.

It is so ironic that the democrats call it "irresonsible". Think abou it.

http://money.cnn.com...

Fact is, it could be implemented in a responsible way, where it would be phased in over years. It would be like getting an alcoholic off booze, you'd need to ween him off it little by little.

It is the smartest thing and the most obvious thing to address our mess.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.
innomen
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4/8/2011 2:47:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Really? Show me a context where a national debt that is quickly reaching critical mass was solved by increased deficit spending. Just one example. Otherwise please don't make a statement that is myred in anachronistic and simplistic thinking.
Ore_Ele
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4/8/2011 2:48:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

That's only one way to restart the economy, and in order for that to work, you must not do deficit spending when the economy is booming. When the economy is going strong, you need to pull back spending, get yourself into a surplus and save little by little for when the next downturn hits.

Exactly like how each family should plan their own budget, build up a savings and when things turn bad, tap into that savings.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/8/2011 3:21:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:48:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

That's only one way to restart the economy, and in order for that to work, you must not do deficit spending when the economy is booming. When the economy is going strong, you need to pull back spending, get yourself into a surplus and save little by little for when the next downturn hits.

Exactly like how each family should plan their own budget, build up a savings and when things turn bad, tap into that savings.

Its a good idea to not deficit spend when the economy is booming, but its been very rare for the budget to be in the black in our nation's history. And at the moment, the economy is not doing well. Pulling out what little social safety nets we have now and getting rid of government jobs will be poison to the very slow and unsteady economic recovery. The U.S. goverment is still far from defaulting on its loans, despite the "sky is falling" reich-wingers.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/8/2011 3:26:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:21:47 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:48:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

That's only one way to restart the economy, and in order for that to work, you must not do deficit spending when the economy is booming. When the economy is going strong, you need to pull back spending, get yourself into a surplus and save little by little for when the next downturn hits.

Exactly like how each family should plan their own budget, build up a savings and when things turn bad, tap into that savings.

Its a good idea to not deficit spend when the economy is booming, but its been very rare for the budget to be in the black in our nation's history. And at the moment, the economy is not doing well. Pulling out what little social safety nets we have now and getting rid of government jobs will be poison to the very slow and unsteady economic recovery. The U.S. goverment is still far from defaulting on its loans, despite the "sky is falling" reich-wingers.

What the government is currently doing is taking out loans to maintain a higher standard of living.

That is like if you lose your job, taking out a 2nd mortgage to maintain a high standard of living. It is a bad personal policy, and it is a bad governmental policy. You should have a safety net (and you should still make some cuts at the beginning), and when the safety net runs out, you make major cuts. You don't keep taking out more and more loans to try to stay "rich."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/8/2011 3:26:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.

Correlation is not causation.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 3:34:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:21:47 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:48:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

That's only one way to restart the economy, and in order for that to work, you must not do deficit spending when the economy is booming. When the economy is going strong, you need to pull back spending, get yourself into a surplus and save little by little for when the next downturn hits.

Exactly like how each family should plan their own budget, build up a savings and when things turn bad, tap into that savings.

Its a good idea to not deficit spend when the economy is booming, but its been very rare for the budget to be in the black in our nation's history. And at the moment, the economy is not doing well. Pulling out what little social safety nets we have now and getting rid of government jobs will be poison to the very slow and unsteady economic recovery. The U.S. goverment is still far from defaulting on its loans, despite the "sky is falling" reich-wingers.

No no, it's actually not that far, we've never been this close since the early days of the republic.

The problem is your sort of thinking is the cause. There needs to be a fundamentally new way of understanding the role of government in the lives of people. This is something the left will not let go. You can pretend that it doesn't exist by discounting the problem, but it's getting more and more difficult for you to maintain your lie. The lie being that you can have everything you want. The indulgences need to stop, and the emotional pleas are working less and less.

To use one of your favorite words, your thinking and your behavior is not sustainable. You cannot sustain the system that you want with your mindset because it doesn't work. - by you i mean the collective left - no pun intended.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 3:36:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.

By the way, it has been demonstrated by most modern economists that FDR's policies prolonged the depression far longer than it would have been without his ridiculous attempt at solving the problem via socialist economics.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/8/2011 3:45:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:36:55 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.

By the way, it has been demonstrated by most right-winged economists that FDR's policies prolonged the depression far longer than it would have been without his ridiculous attempt at solving the problem via socialist economics.

fixed, lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Grape
Posts: 989
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4/8/2011 3:51:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:21:47 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:48:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

That's only one way to restart the economy, and in order for that to work, you must not do deficit spending when the economy is booming. When the economy is going strong, you need to pull back spending, get yourself into a surplus and save little by little for when the next downturn hits.

Exactly like how each family should plan their own budget, build up a savings and when things turn bad, tap into that savings.

Its a good idea to not deficit spend when the economy is booming, but its been very rare for the budget to be in the black in our nation's history. And at the moment, the economy is not doing well. Pulling out what little social safety nets we have now and getting rid of government jobs will be poison to the very slow and unsteady economic recovery. The U.S. goverment is still far from defaulting on its loans, despite the "sky is falling" reich-wingers.

You have to save up to establish a surplus during the economic boom in order to afford deficit spending during the bust. Keynes never suggested that we just keep up the deficit spending forever without bringing in a surplus because you will eventually build up too many loans and not be able to pay them off. The fact that the government has rarely ever been in the black is precisely the problem with applying the Keynesian approach: it requires an approximate balance of surplus and deficit. Right now the national debt is approached the GDP and will probably surpass it by the end of the year and our debt this year is well outside the safe-zone, as it has been for many years. A small amount of debt is economically healthy, but we have more than a small amount of debt.

Condemning everyone who disagrees with you as a Nazi is not going to help you figure out what is and is not correct economic policy. National Socialism is actually the opposition of libertarianism so your name-calling makes no sense.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 3:56:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:45:43 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:36:55 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.

By the way, it has been demonstrated by most right-winged economists that FDR's policies prolonged the depression far longer than it would have been without his ridiculous attempt at solving the problem via socialist economics.

fixed, lol.

Not true. David Landes, economist from Harvard, hardly an instrument of the right wing - David Landes, Professor of History Emeritus, Harvard University .... that FDR's tax policies "intensified the depression they were working to correct"

UCLA- right wing? http://www.whatsbestnext.com...

There are loads more, but not as blatantly liberal who agree that it was the wrong course.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/8/2011 4:39:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:56:32 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:45:43 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:36:55 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.

By the way, it has been demonstrated by most right-winged economists that FDR's policies prolonged the depression far longer than it would have been without his ridiculous attempt at solving the problem via socialist economics.

fixed, lol.

Not true. David Landes, economist from Harvard, hardly an instrument of the right wing - David Landes, Professor of History Emeritus, Harvard University .... that FDR's tax policies "intensified the depression they were working to correct"

UCLA- right wing? http://www.whatsbestnext.com...

There are loads more, but not as blatantly liberal who agree that it was the wrong course.

lol, being from UCLA does not make you a liberal.

Some of the policies he enacted were good, and some weren't. It is easy to point at the bad ones, that hurt the recovery and say "his policies extended the depression," while ignoring the others that shortened it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 4:46:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 4:39:51 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:56:32 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:45:43 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:36:55 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.

By the way, it has been demonstrated by most right-winged economists that FDR's policies prolonged the depression far longer than it would have been without his ridiculous attempt at solving the problem via socialist economics.

fixed, lol.

Not true. David Landes, economist from Harvard, hardly an instrument of the right wing - David Landes, Professor of History Emeritus, Harvard University .... that FDR's tax policies "intensified the depression they were working to correct"

UCLA- right wing? http://www.whatsbestnext.com...

There are loads more, but not as blatantly liberal who agree that it was the wrong course.

lol, being from UCLA does not make you a liberal.

Some of the policies he enacted were good, and some weren't. It is easy to point at the bad ones, that hurt the recovery and say "his policies extended the depression," while ignoring the others that shortened it.

What particular policy would you argue shortened it? Being from Harvard does make you a liberal.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/8/2011 4:53:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Neither the Republicans nor Democrats would ever do that. By the way, Republicans have consistantly shown to have a less balanced budget than Democrats, surprise, surprise.

http://oi53.tinypic.com...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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4/8/2011 4:57:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 4:53:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Neither the Republicans nor Democrats would ever do that. By the way, Republicans have consistantly shown to have a less balanced budget than Democrats, surprise, surprise.

http://oi53.tinypic.com...

That's true, but in the current fight in Washington, it's clearly the dems who are resisting any sort of restraint in spending. In the current crisis it's the dems who are pretending that the problem doesn't exist and we can just keep going the way we are.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/8/2011 5:03:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 4:46:34 PM, innomen wrote:
At 4/8/2011 4:39:51 PM, OreEle wrote:

lol, being from UCLA does not make you a liberal.

Some of the policies he enacted were good, and some weren't. It is easy to point at the bad ones, that hurt the recovery and say "his policies extended the depression," while ignoring the others that shortened it.

What particular policy would you argue shortened it? Being from Harvard does make you a liberal.

The 7 members of the Harvard Republican Club would disagree with you (actually, just kidding, they have over 800).

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu...

Anyway, I'd say that the SES of 1933 (later to become the department of agriculture) was a big help, given the environmental nightmare that a lack of regulations created. The FSRC, saved countless farmers (and so countless jobs aswell as lives from the extra food). I would even say that most of the New Deal, besides the speed at which we pulled out of it (it hind sight the end of the new deal years, 37' and 38' could have been handled much better because of the emergence of WW2).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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4/9/2011 9:19:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:18:54 PM, OreEle wrote:
Would the republicans (driven by the tea party) ever be willing to put forth a constitutional amendment, requiring the federal government to have a balanced budget each and every year?

I'm safely willing to bet that the democrats would never do that.

I would not mind seeing it, but most presidents would hate to actually apply it. Emergency Use Laws would nullify the amendment. It really would never work. It would be nullified if another war came along, or the recession took a turn for the worse. It really would never work unless we get a President willing to follow it; in other-words, it would never work. I have spoken to Congressmen and a senator about it. They think it is silly because it would never be followed.
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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4/9/2011 9:37:54 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.
Well-established fact? When has it been established, and when has it been proven?
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/9/2011 9:38:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/8/2011 3:23:35 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/8/2011 3:15:54 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/8/2011 2:41:14 PM, PervRat wrote:
LOL

Good gawd, the well-established fact that deficit spending by the government is what it takes to restart a stalled economy seems so completely lost.

Well established? Obviously never ventured into the field of economics have you?

No, you haven't. I have studied economics and studied FDR's New Deal that ended the Great Depression (well, that and WW2 -- which was a huge increase in the government and colossal-scale deficit spending). Try again.:

FDR and his litany of Executive Orders made matters worse, vastly worse, in fact. WWII is the only thing responsible for stimulating the economy.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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4/9/2011 3:04:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/9/2011 9:38:26 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

FDR and his litany of Executive Orders made matters worse, vastly worse, in fact. WWII is the only thing responsible for stimulating the economy.



So, war spending ends recessions, but spending on social programs does not?
lewis20
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4/9/2011 6:23:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/9/2011 3:04:21 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 4/9/2011 9:38:26 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:

FDR and his litany of Executive Orders made matters worse, vastly worse, in fact. WWII is the only thing responsible for stimulating the economy.



So, war spending ends recessions, but spending on social programs does not?

Exactly, WWII caused our production to take off, social programs cause people to spend more money, but doesn't really create anything real.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
TheAtheistAllegiance
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4/10/2011 3:32:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/9/2011 6:23:25 PM, lewis20 wrote:

Exactly, WWII caused our production to take off, social programs cause people to spend more money, but doesn't really create anything real.

Actually, even if social programs only directly initiated spending, it would spur the production of goods and services that are actually demanded by consumers. War spending only produces bombs and guns, which aren't of very much use to your average day person, other than providing a decent income, so they virtually have the same effect at face-value.

The reason the two had different effects during the Great Depression is because of the difference in degree. FDR's New Deal spurred production and brought employment down, but it just wasn't exercised in the extreme degree that arms production was during WWII.