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affirmative action

bombmaniac
Posts: 49
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4/3/2009 10:48:49 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
is it fair for a minority to get a job for being a minority??? granted at the time it was desperately needed. however, now in the "age of equality"(i made that up:)) we are more equal that ever before, is it still necessary? in fact ever since the election of a minority president is there still cause for such laws?

(only if he's there because of affirmative action;)
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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4/3/2009 5:03:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/3/2009 10:48:49 AM, bombmaniac wrote:
is it fair for a minority to get a job for being a minority??? granted at the time it was desperately needed. however, now in the "age of equality"(i made that up:)) we are more equal that ever before, is it still necessary? in fact ever since the election of a minority president is there still cause for such laws?

(only if he's there because of affirmative action;)

Affirmative Action does not give jobs to minorities just for being minorities. It only gives a job to a minority job candidate if he is equally qualified for a position. In other words, if a white male and a minority have the same qualifications, the minority is chosen.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/3/2009 5:34:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Depends on the incarnation, Jblake. Though my sociology teacher kept repeating that exact formulation even after I showed her the opposing evidence of India's affirmative action system :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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4/3/2009 5:37:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Affirmative action has been implemented many ways.

I believe that it is better for people who believe that they are being discriminated against to go to court than for the government to force companies to hire the minority.
Why should governments have a say in who the company chooses to hire?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/3/2009 5:44:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Personally, I only support affirmative action in the sales of baked goods, though it's none of my business if a private employer does it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/11/2009 10:45:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I feel quite strongly that the U.S. government does have a responsibility to undo the ongoing damage from its role for minority inequalities that continue to this day.

As a nation, the United States failed in the promise written in the Declaration of Independence -- the very document, however 'legally unenforceable' it is considered today -- to operate under the principle of all men being created equal. When the Constitution was drafted, it failed to uphold that principle, it legitimized slavery as well as restricting voting -- the very basic freedom in a democracy -- to white men.

Even Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation did not wipe out inequalities set and enforced by the government, they merely became less blatant than slavery. Slavery was replaced by Jim Crow segregation and un-equalization, and that lasted another century.

Even after the Civil Rights movement "succeeded" in finally curbing Jim Crow laws following Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s martyrdom, things were not equalized. Today, in the year 2009, things are -still- not equalized. Racial and other minorities are still very much unequal in terms of the basic statistical meters -- income, education, prison makeup.

To me, the reason is very simple: Say your great-grandparents were slaves, denied everything including education. What level of lingual skills and education would they pass on to their children (your grandparents) while rearing them? And your grandparents down to their children (your parents) when they were being raised? And your parents to you as you were being raised?

A lot of child experts agree, the vast majority of childrens' language development and ability to learn comes not from public school, but from the home. If your parents were uneducated and were born in an environment where formal English was not practiced, then that will pass on generation to generation during developing years, as every child in that family will be born with an impairment to their language skills, which in turn inhibits their ability to learn and participate.

Further, despite the romanticized notion that every person well off has created their own wealth, by and large its a birthright-inheritance from their parents, occasional break-out-of-humble-beginnings being an exception and not the norm. Those born rich are far more likely to be rich adults; those born into poverty are far more likely to be impoverished as adults.

The United States is responsible for unequal origin, opportunity, wealth, education, etc. for the ancestry of minorities. Therefore, since this is passed down generation to generation, there is ongoing damage that must be stopped, therefore affirmative action is just, even if it seems like an unfair discrimination by its own right.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/11/2009 11:44:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The injustice isn't passed down generation to generation though. Fewer inheritances are, but no one has a right to an inheritance except the person who bequeaths. Lingual skills are not your ancestors responsibility, they are your responsibility-- and so is everything else. If you get help, be glad of your good fortune, but never expect it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/11/2009 11:49:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/11/2009 11:44:07 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The injustice isn't passed down generation to generation though. Fewer inheritances are, but no one has a right to an inheritance except the person who bequeaths. Lingual skills are not your ancestors responsibility, they are your responsibility-- and so is everything else. If you get help, be glad of your good fortune, but never expect it.

Wow, amazing, you took charge of your own education from your own parents when you were 2 or 3 years old and learning to speak? I was rather not that fast.
bombmaniac
Posts: 49
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4/13/2009 11:18:06 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
no, you learn to speak what your parents speak. however, that is no reason to continue speaking Ebonics for the rest of your life
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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4/13/2009 11:21:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/11/2009 11:49:48 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/11/2009 11:44:07 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The injustice isn't passed down generation to generation though. Fewer inheritances are, but no one has a right to an inheritance except the person who bequeaths. Lingual skills are not your ancestors responsibility, they are your responsibility-- and so is everything else. If you get help, be glad of your good fortune, but never expect it.

Wow, amazing, you took charge of your own education from your own parents when you were 2 or 3 years old and learning to speak? I was rather not that fast.
You completely missed the point. Help happening is not the same as help being a right. :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
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6/16/2009 6:26:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 4/3/2009 5:37:01 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Why should governments have a say in who the company chooses to hire?

I think along much the same lines. Government should not dictate the choice of the company, even if that choice would be for the 'better'.

America is all about granting everyone equal rights and opportunities. To implement affirmative action would violate this basic American belief. Do rock-paper-scissors to decide; it follows the American doctrine closer.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln