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Liberal v. Conservative (American)

rarugged
Posts: 172
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5/20/2011 12:43:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd like to start a thread in order to discuss the ideologies, products, advocacy, supporters, etc. on two different brands: liberalism and conservatism, U.S. style.

Simply put, which brand is the better one?

Let's try not to argue too much on definitions; liberalism in American politics is just "bigger" government and conservatism is "smaller" government.

Social issues and economic issues should be pretty obvious from thereon. I'd like to keep the thread clean of troll posts, spam, insults, and other dialogue adverse to a healthy debate.
If Jesus came back tomorrow, a cross would be the last thing he would want to see.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/20/2011 1:21:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Based on your definition, and your definition alone, without a doubt conservatism.

The United States consists of over 300 million people. A large government cannot implement policies as efficiently as smaller governments (state governments) due to heavy bureaucracy, lobbyists that want to hijack the government, and corruption.

Lobbyists are weaker at the state and local level. They exist, but aren't nearly as powerful at the federal level.

Plus, there is greater mobility between state and local government. If my state is implementing policies I disagree with, I can move. If the United States implements policies I disagree with, well that's tough sh!t for me. I have to wait years to get citizenship from Australia, Canadea or Great Britain. I'd have to learn another language if I want to move someplace else.
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/20/2011 2:03:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
American politics is a joke. It's the entertainment branch of industry.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/20/2011 2:59:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 12:43:52 AM, rarugged wrote:
Let's try not to argue too much on definitions; liberalism in American politics is just "bigger" government and conservatism is "smaller" government.

lol
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/20/2011 3:32:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Neither. It's a false dichotomy and they're both wrong.

Conservatism isn't actually smaller government because they support militarism and the removal of social freedoms.

Liberalism is actually less militarism yet supports big government in our social lives.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/20/2011 8:19:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 3:32:57 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Neither. It's a false dichotomy and they're both wrong.

Conservatism isn't actually smaller government because they support militarism and the removal of social freedoms.

Liberalism is actually less militarism yet supports big government in our social lives.

OK. This is what confuses me about liberalism. It seems they want to control the food we eat, yet are alright with drugs. That seems to be a contradiction.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/20/2011 9:23:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 8:19:26 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/20/2011 3:32:57 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Neither. It's a false dichotomy and they're both wrong.

Conservatism isn't actually smaller government because they support militarism and the removal of social freedoms.

Liberalism is actually less militarism yet supports big government in our social lives.

OK. This is what confuses me about liberalism. It seems they want to control the food we eat, yet are alright with drugs. That seems to be a contradiction.:

I object to using the term "liberal" to denote modern-day progressives. Classical liberalism is libertarianism. The word was hijacked by socialists.

Anyway, Progressives want a regulatory agency for everything, and neo-conservatives say they want small government except when it comes stimulus packages, corporate bail-out's, and a gigantic military apparatus.

They're flipsides of the same coin as far as I'm concerned.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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5/20/2011 3:23:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This just in: scientists have now found the first instance of an object breaking the speed of c; it is this thread heading to epic fail.
kfc
rarugged
Posts: 172
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5/20/2011 3:27:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 3:23:34 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
This just in: scientists have now found the first instance of an object breaking the speed of c; it is this thread heading to epic fail.

There are indeed instances of superluminal (>c) velocities achieved in the quantum world.

But yes, I concur, this thread has gone spiraling to fail. The definitions are too debatable and the question too ambivalent, I suppose.
If Jesus came back tomorrow, a cross would be the last thing he would want to see.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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5/20/2011 4:00:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 3:27:50 PM, rarugged wrote:
At 5/20/2011 3:23:34 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
This just in: scientists have now found the first instance of an object breaking the speed of c; it is this thread heading to epic fail.

There are indeed instances of superluminal (>c) velocities achieved in the quantum world.

But yes, I concur, this thread has gone spiraling to fail. The definitions are too debatable and the question too ambivalent, I suppose.

Yes we cannot hope to conclude the entirety of American left-wing versus right-wing politics within a thread on DDO.
kfc
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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5/20/2011 4:02:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And to add injury to insult, you've completely ruined P_L's day. He's probably going to run some poor liberal off the road in his car because of this. One less vote for Obama next year, he says...
kfc
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/20/2011 4:11:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 12:43:52 AM, rarugged wrote:
I'd like to start a thread in order to discuss the ideologies, products, advocacy, supporters, etc. on two different brands: liberalism and conservatism, U.S. style.

Simply put, which brand is the better one?

Let's try not to argue too much on definitions; liberalism in American politics is just "bigger" government and conservatism is "smaller" government.

Social issues and economic issues should be pretty obvious from thereon. I'd like to keep the thread clean of troll posts, spam, insults, and other dialogue adverse to a healthy debate.

As that one Buddhist libertarian said, it's a false dichotomy. They're both wrong on half the issues, just different halves. Conservatives are for smaller government in things like welfare and regulatory agencies, but support outlawing abortion and gay marriage and pushing our western values on the rest of the world. Liberals are the opposite. They are for bigger government in things like welfare and regulatory agencies, and support a more progressive approach to things like abortion and gay marriage, and support a smaller military.

A better OP would be Anarchists v. Statists. If that's the question....
Anarchists
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: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
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Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/20/2011 4:33:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 4:11:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
A better OP would be Anarchists v. Statists. If that's the question....
Anarchists

"Gentlemen, the time is coming when there will be two great classes, Socialists, and Anarchists. The Anarchists want the government to be nothing, and the Socialists want government to be everything...the Anarchists representing the laissez faire doctrine and the Socialists representing the extreme view on the other side, and when that time comes I am an Anarchist." - William Graham Sumner, Yale Professor
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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5/20/2011 4:41:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 4:33:42 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 5/20/2011 4:11:15 PM, socialpinko wrote:
A better OP would be Anarchists v. Statists. If that's the question....
Anarchists

"Gentlemen, the time is coming when there will be two great classes, Socialists, and Anarchists. The Anarchists want the government to be nothing, and the Socialists want government to be everything...the Anarchists representing the laissez faire doctrine and the Socialists representing the extreme view on the other side, and when that time comes I am an Anarchist." - William Graham Sumner, Yale Professor

That's pretty prophetic. We're just now starting to see the beginning of that shift. Sumner died in 1910.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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5/20/2011 6:45:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Both suck.
http://www.studentnewsdaily.com...

Liberals = Pvssies
Conservatives = Out of touch fvcktards with poles shoved up their arses
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: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/20/2011 6:52:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/20/2011 4:02:07 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
And to add injury to insult, you've completely ruined P_L's day. He's probably going to run some poor liberal off the road in his car because of this. One less vote for Obama next year, he says...:

Absolutely. I've issued this statement in lieu of this thread.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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5/20/2011 7:28:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What's up with everybody saying, "Liberalism and Conservatism are lies!"? Why do we always rush into statism and anarchism? My point is, is that in American politics today, the political spectrum in terms of government involvement is small, but some government involvement compared to moderated government involved/using government to keep the free market going.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10