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Refuting a Common Argmnt Against Conpiracists

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/26/2011 5:45:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Many people who try to make arguments against conspiracy theories always come up with this lame and pitiful argument:

A conspiracy of that magnitude among that many people would not be able to be kept secret. You would think that the secret would get out some how eventually.

Yeah, guess what. There is a conspiracy and the secret DID get out, how do you think the flippin conspiracy theorists KNOW about it and provide all the facts and evidence from sources and insiders??? DUH!!!!!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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5/26/2011 5:59:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 5:45:21 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Yeah, guess what. There is a conspiracy and the secret DID get out, how do you think the flippin conspiracy theorists KNOW about it and provide all the facts and evidence from sources and insiders??? DUH!!!!!

Name that fallacy game. Gogogogo
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/26/2011 6:09:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 5:59:11 AM, Puck wrote:
At 5/26/2011 5:45:21 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Yeah, guess what. There is a conspiracy and the secret DID get out, how do you think the flippin conspiracy theorists KNOW about it and provide all the facts and evidence from sources and insiders??? DUH!!!!!

Name that fallacy game. Gogogogo

The fallacy is on the other side. They strawman the conspiracy theorists by saying that they claim the conspiracy is 100% secret and that the secret never got out.

No, we don't claim that. We say the secret HAS got out.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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5/26/2011 7:31:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 6:09:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/26/2011 5:59:11 AM, Puck wrote:
At 5/26/2011 5:45:21 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Yeah, guess what. There is a conspiracy and the secret DID get out, how do you think the flippin conspiracy theorists KNOW about it and provide all the facts and evidence from sources and insiders??? DUH!!!!!

Name that fallacy game. Gogogogo

The fallacy is on the other side. They strawman the conspiracy theorists by saying that they claim the conspiracy is 100% secret and that the secret never got out.

No, we don't claim that. We say the secret HAS got out.

...except the vast majority of intellectually respectable people don't give it a minute's worth of their attention. Why is there such a disparity in their reaction between an alien reptilian conspiracy, and the countless foul cover-ups revealed by Wikileaks? The former has much more reliable documentation/evidence, and it's purported events are relatively suited for the evidence at hand. To have reasonable grounds about some reptilian alien conspiracy, you would need a correspondingly large body of evidence/explanations/etc. Basically, Occam's Razor taking into consideration multiple factors.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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5/26/2011 7:37:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 6:09:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The fallacy is on the other side.

Irrelevant. The fallacy referred to is in your statement.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/26/2011 10:00:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
@TheSkeptic

You're 40% less awesome with a vanilla avatar. If you're planning on having a substantial presence on the site, what's with the boring look?

@Geo

The argument I usually hear from that vein isn't that the conspiracy would have gotten out, it's that the conspiracy theorists would have been silenced if there were really a conspiracy. It's not plausible that the reptilians would risk word getting out and a potential uprising occurring if they've expended so much effort infiltrating high level government facilities and replacing high level officials.

It's hardly the biggest problem facing conspiracy theorists, especially ones as batsh!t insane as yours, but it's more compelling than your strawman.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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5/26/2011 3:53:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 10:00:30 AM, Kinesis wrote:
@TheSkeptic

You're 40% less awesome with a vanilla avatar. If you're planning on having a substantial presence on the site, what's with the boring look?

I had weird problems with uploading a picture a while ago - probably had to do something with my previous laptop (I've gotten a new one since). Plus, I don't aim to have a substantial presence on this website at all. DDO gets boring quick, I can only casually scroll through the forum.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/26/2011 7:40:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 7:37:59 AM, Puck wrote:
At 5/26/2011 6:09:37 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The fallacy is on the other side.

Irrelevant.

No it's not. You claimed I committed a fallacy. I retorted that it's not me, but the other side that committed the fallacy. Completely relevant.

The fallacy referred to is in your statement.

Apparently you're at a loss for words because you have failed to name the fallacy.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/26/2011 7:53:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 10:00:30 AM, Kinesis wrote:
@Geo

The argument I usually hear from that vein isn't that the conspiracy would have gotten out, it's that the conspiracy theorists would have been silenced if there were really a conspiracy.

That's equally lame and pitiful as an argument as the first one I mentioned. Why? Because that's absurd. Could you imagine if Alex Jones were assassinated? That would create a violent uprising and would validate everything that he has said! He'd be a martyr and would draw mass attention to the New World Order.

Not to mention, ex-Illuminati members have already confirmed that they do not worry about the conspiracy getting out because they have already conditioned the masses to believe that conspiracy theories are false and absurd. They already know that those who make claims of conspiracy will be ridiculed by the deluded masses.

It's not plausible that the reptilians would risk word getting out and a potential uprising occurring if they've expended so much effort infiltrating high level government facilities and replacing high level officials.

Apparently you haven't read the Anunnaki Covenant. The very first words are:

"An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their perception.
Those who will see it will be thought of as insane."
-- Covenant of the Anunnaki

It's hardly the biggest problem facing conspiracy theorists, especially ones as batsh!t insane as yours, but it's more compelling than your strawman.

I didn't make a strawman. That is an argument I hear all the time. You might not personally make the argument, but many people do.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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5/26/2011 7:59:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So, wait: you're making the "basically everyone is deluded and ignorant" argument while at the same time making the "if high-profile conspiracy theorists are assassinated, people will realize the truth" argument? You're aware that there are massive tensions between these two propositions, I hope.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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5/26/2011 8:05:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That's equally lame and pitiful as an argument as the first one I mentioned. Why? Because that's absurd. Could you imagine if Alex Jones were assassinated? That would create a violent uprising and would validate everything that he has said! He'd be a martyr and would draw mass attention to the New World Order.

The powerful figures who are pulling the strings behind world affairs can't make a man's assassination seem like a normal death?

Not to mention, ex-Illuminati members have already confirmed that they do not worry about the conspiracy getting out because they have already conditioned the masses to believe that conspiracy theories are false and absurd. They already know that those who make claims of conspiracy will be ridiculed by the deluded masses.

There's a distinct psychological difference between Illuminati believers (such as yourself) and those who don't believe? Which would thus beg the question of why you are trying to convince us, the deluded masses, if it isn't possible. Otherwise, you're simply saying that we are more biased and close-minded than you ...which doesn't serve as a convincing excuse for not fearing a conspiracy leaking out as people can still be convinced. Of course, unless these secret world figures can understand human sociology to such an alarming extent that they can understand how to manipulate (or predict) how the masses will behave...making your position even more un-parsimonious.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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5/26/2011 8:05:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 7:59:40 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
So, wait: you're making the "basically everyone is deluded and ignorant" argument while at the same time making the "if high-profile conspiracy theorists are assassinated, people will realize the truth" argument? You're aware that there are massive tensions between these two propositions, I hope.

^ this
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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5/26/2011 8:10:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 8:05:26 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
At 5/26/2011 7:59:40 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
So, wait: you're making the "basically everyone is deluded and ignorant" argument while at the same time making the "if high-profile conspiracy theorists are assassinated, people will realize the truth" argument? You're aware that there are massive tensions between these two propositions, I hope.

^ this

What I honestly think his counterargument will be is "assassinations like that will wake people up, snapping them out of the delusion". But I mean, there are two further objections to be made: first, the problem of state agents initiating a cover-up to make it look as though he was murdered by some extremist, or random robber, or something of that sort. States are good at those sorts of things, and even I came up with a rudimentary plan of what I would do if I were a high-powered state official while considering the counterargument. Second, the problem of conspiracy theories only being validated by conspiracy theorists. Have you seen Alex Jones' videos on YouTube? They manage maybe a few hundred hits, and that's about it. Everyone else is either too bored or too convinced that he's insane. In either case, learning of his assassination (if the news even chose to make it a big event, which is doubtful) would stir up the conspiracy theorist community, but would have the effect of a raindrop in the Pacific as far as the rest of humanity is concerned.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/27/2011 12:18:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Drugs can lead you to believe some pretty wild things.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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5/27/2011 11:01:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 5/26/2011 7:53:16 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Apparently you haven't read the Anunnaki Covenant. The very first words are:

"An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their perception.
Those who will see it will be thought of as insane."
-- Covenant of the Anunnaki

LOL. How convenient. The old "yea that's what I meant" argument. So because they were able to foresee the fact that most people would take them as retards or just batshit crazy, that somehow validates everything they believe... fantastic.