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Value Voters Shouldn't Matter

HisFlyness
Posts: 17
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6/2/2011 1:34:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Perhaps this is a bit too libertarian of me (I'm not necessarily one), but value voters shouldn't matter in the upcoming election. Whether it's on the right or left on issues like gay rights, abortion, etc., the state of our economy is such that we should shelve those issues for a time (or forever) and focus on getting the economy back up to par. If we keep focusing on social issues, we're not going to have a country to have society in.
"Not All Those Who Wander Are Lost." - Tolkein...or Babe Ruth. One of those guys.
Merda
Posts: 322
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6/2/2011 2:58:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree that when voting, one should prioritize values. In this election, prioritization would most likely be:

1.-Economy(recession, job creation)
2.-Foreign relations(Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan)
3.-Social policy(gay marriage, abortion)

While if I ever voted, I would prioritize values, I would most likely never vote for a President who was incredibly bigoted in regards to social policies like gay rights(Huckabee, Pawlenty).
My manwich!
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/2/2011 3:01:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 2:58:44 PM, Merda wrote:
I agree that when voting, one should prioritize values. In this election, prioritization would most likely be:

1.-Economy(recession, job creation)
2.-Foreign relations(Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan)
3.-Social policy(gay marriage, abortion)

While if I ever voted, I would prioritize values, I would most likely never vote for a President who was incredibly bigoted in regards to social policies like gay rights(Huckabee, Pawlenty).

Pawlenty? Yeah? I am unaware of his social stances.

Still, the economy is way above all other considerations.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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6/2/2011 3:15:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 2:58:44 PM, Merda wrote:
I agree that when voting, one should prioritize values. In this election, prioritization would most likely be:

You aren't a moral skeptic really.
Merda
Posts: 322
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6/2/2011 3:56:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 3:15:29 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/2/2011 2:58:44 PM, Merda wrote:
I agree that when voting, one should prioritize values. In this election, prioritization would most likely be:

You aren't a moral skeptic really.

Morality and politics are different. When deciding how to vote, one need not take morality as a consideration.
My manwich!
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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6/2/2011 4:01:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 3:56:34 PM, Merda wrote:
Morality and politics are different.

No sh!t.

When deciding how to vote, one need not take morality as a consideration.

Morality is the profession which deals with how one should act. Any 'should' statements necessarily fall under the remit of ethics.
Merda
Posts: 322
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6/2/2011 4:10:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 4:01:41 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/2/2011 3:56:34 PM, Merda wrote:
Morality and politics are different.

No sh!t.

When deciding how to vote, one need not take morality as a consideration.

Morality is the profession which deals with how one should act. Any 'should' statements necessarily fall under the remit of ethics.

My thoughts on politics aren't influenced by 'ethics' or 'morality'. Most of it falls under personal autonomy(euthanasia, abortion, property rights). No need for morality. I'm also an anarchist so my thoughts on politics in the U.S. are simply what arise out of an imperfect situation.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/2/2011 4:15:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 4:01:41 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/2/2011 3:56:34 PM, Merda wrote:
Morality and politics are different.

No sh!t.

When deciding how to vote, one need not take morality as a consideration.

Morality is the profession which deals with how one should act.

Morality is a field or subject, but not a profession.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/2/2011 4:16:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 4:10:41 PM, Merda wrote:
At 6/2/2011 4:01:41 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/2/2011 3:56:34 PM, Merda wrote:
Morality and politics are different.

No sh!t.

When deciding how to vote, one need not take morality as a consideration.

Morality is the profession which deals with how one should act. Any 'should' statements necessarily fall under the remit of ethics.

My thoughts on politics aren't influenced by 'ethics' or 'morality'. Most of it falls under personal autonomy(euthanasia, abortion, property rights). No need for morality. I'm also an anarchist so my thoughts on politics in the U.S. are simply what arise out of an imperfect situation.

Still requires morals, just not objective morals. To make any claim that something is "right" or "wrong" or "should" is moral. You say it falls under "personal autonomy" then you are saying that "personal autonomy" is the way things should be (thus a moral statement).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/2/2011 4:19:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Personal Priorities:
1. Drug Legalization (End of War on Drugs)
2. Marriage Equality (Repeal of DOMA)
3. Privacy/Political Liberty (Repeal of Patriot Act and Espionage Act)
4. End of military imperialism
5. Healthcare freedom (Repeal of most of healthcare reform)
6. Economic Deregulation (General)
7. Reduction of taxes
8. Simplification of tax code

So, comparing Mitt Romney and Barack Obama:
Mitt Romney: Maybe 5, Maybe 6, Maybe 7
Barack Obama: Maybe 2, Maybe 3, Maybe 4
...Barack Obama has it.

Comparing Ron Paul and Barack Obama:
Ron Paul: 1, Maybe 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Barack Obama: Maybe 2, Maybe 3, Maybe 4
...Ron Paul has it.

If we keep focusing on social issues, we're not going to have a country to have society in.
But that society won't be worth living in. Besides the economy won't collapse without serious increases in inflation and taxation, which haven't happened.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/2/2011 4:59:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Social issues and economic issues can be very similar.

For example, let's take the war on drugs. The war on drugs increases gang violence. This results in crime, which harms businesses and others. It also decreases value of property. It also decreases educational quality, which decreases overall wealth.

The war on drugs also increases the cost of drugs (supply and demand). It also increases the cost of deterrence which costs the taxpayer, and increases the purchasing power of the taxpayer.
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CiRrK
Posts: 670
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6/2/2011 5:13:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree, especially for this election social issues should be set aside. For me personally my priorities for this election are:

1) Job creation

A. Tax reduction
B. Tax simplification

2) Debt reduction

3) War on Terror
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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6/2/2011 5:45:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/2/2011 4:19:19 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Personal Priorities:
1. Drug Legalization (End of War on Drugs)
2. Marriage Equality (Repeal of DOMA)
3. Privacy/Political Liberty (Repeal of Patriot Act and Espionage Act)
4. End of military imperialism
5. Healthcare freedom (Repeal of most of healthcare reform)
6. Economic Deregulation (General)
7. Reduction of taxes
8. Simplification of tax code

So, comparing Mitt Romney and Barack Obama:
Mitt Romney: Maybe 5, Maybe 6, Maybe 7
Barack Obama: Maybe 2, Maybe 3, Maybe 4
...Barack Obama has it.

Comparing Ron Paul and Barack Obama:
Ron Paul: 1, Maybe 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Barack Obama: Maybe 2, Maybe 3, Maybe 4
...Ron Paul has it.

If we keep focusing on social issues, we're not going to have a country to have society in.
But that society won't be worth living in. Besides the economy won't collapse without serious increases in inflation and taxation, which haven't happened.

You realize he signed the extension of the Patriot Act, when he could have easily not? He could have even just waited for the real copy instead of using the Auto-pen.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.