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You and the Conspiracists Agree Except 1Thing

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/8/2011 4:05:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You and the conspiracists agree on most things except one thing: whether events are the result of accidents done by dumb politicians or whether events are purposefully done by smart politicians who desire power.

Just about everything Alex Jones says is empirical observable fact, you guys merely disagree with the reason why it happens.

For example:

The Patriot Act exists: Accident or intentional?

Development of fascist microchips: Accident or intentional?

Aggressive wars: Accident or intentional?

World leaders being part of the same elitist groups like CFR/Bilderberg: Coincidence or conspiracy?

Marijuana being illegal: They care about safety or is there an agenda behind it?

The government using force against it's own citizens: Accident or intentional?

Riot police brutally harming innocent people: Accident or intentional?

Plans for NAU, National ID cards, Net Neutrality: Accident or intentional?

C'mon, if you're a politician, you don't write a bill that destroys all civil liberties like the Patriot Act, and then say "whoops, my bad." Get fvckin real. Remember when Harry Reid made a Small Business Act and amended it with the entire text of the Patriot Act? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was on purpose. THINK.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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6/8/2011 4:07:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:05:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You and the conspiracists agree on most things except one thing: whether events are the result of accidents done by dumb politicians or whether events are purposefully done by shape shifting reptilians from the 11th dimension who desire power.

Fixed.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/8/2011 4:08:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"In politics, nothing happens by accident."
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Grape
Posts: 989
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6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/8/2011 4:52:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

Oh ok, so conspiracy theories are just common sense and understanding of human nature. You admit that they are correct and this gives even more reason why conspiracy deniers lack common sense and are simply wrong.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
badger
Posts: 11,793
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6/8/2011 4:55:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

we elect new governors every couple of years. their powers aren't anything all that amazing or enticing. it's money that "corrupts" them, not power. and money pools.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/8/2011 4:58:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:55:56 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

we elect new governors every couple of years. their powers aren't anything all that amazing or enticing. it's money that "corrupts" them, not power. and money pools.

well, different people are corrupted by different things.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
badger
Posts: 11,793
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6/8/2011 5:04:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:58:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:55:56 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

we elect new governors every couple of years. their powers aren't anything all that amazing or enticing. it's money that "corrupts" them, not power. and money pools.

well, different people are corrupted by different things.

well money is power really, it's just i was talking about our elected officials with no real chance of power rather than the bastards pulling their strings, if it's your thirst for power you're on about. and i figure we're all generally the same. besides my grandmother who's a lovely woman.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/8/2011 6:11:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:05:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You and the conspiracists agree on most things except one thing: whether events are the result of accidents done by dumb politicians or whether events are purposefully done by smart politicians who desire power.

Just about everything Alex Jones says is empirical observable fact, you guys merely disagree with the reason why it happens.

For example:

The Patriot Act exists: Accident or intentional?
Intentional, that doesn't say the intent is to empower green folk.


Development of fascist microchips: Accident or intentional?
What fascist microchips? How can a microchip have an ideology?


Aggressive wars: Accident or intentional?
Which wars?


World leaders being part of the same elitist groups like CFR/Bilderberg: Coincidence or conspiracy?
The groups are groups for world leaders. I'm sure lots of such groups exist that fail to gather their target audience, these ones succeed. The conspiracy is-- "let's gather world leaders somewhere." That's about all that's demonstrable, they don't need to all be for the same purpose.


Marijuana being illegal: They care about safety or is there an agenda behind it?
There are several agendas behind it. None of which has been demonstrated to have to do with green people.


The government using force against it's own citizens: Accident or intentional?
Which use of force?


Riot police brutally harming innocent people: Accident or intentional?
Which incident is this? Whose intentions?


Plans for NAU, National ID cards, Net Neutrality: Accident or intentional?
Net Neutrality is intentional, but what intention do you suppose? What's the empirical evidence for the NAU? What National ID cards are you talking about?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/8/2011 6:15:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 5:04:05 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:58:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:55:56 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

we elect new governors every couple of years. their powers aren't anything all that amazing or enticing. it's money that "corrupts" them, not power. and money pools.

well, different people are corrupted by different things.

well money is power really, it's just i was talking about our elected officials with no real chance of power rather than the bastards pulling their strings, if it's your thirst for power you're on about. and i figure we're all generally the same. besides my grandmother who's a lovely woman.

well, if I ever became a politican, I'd probably be viewed as one of the most "corrupted" since I strictly follow "keep your friends close and your enemies closer." So rather than turning down dirty money, I'd accept it, cozy up to the lobbiests, find out who is on their payroll and secretly out them to the public.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
badger
Posts: 11,793
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6/8/2011 6:37:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 6:15:47 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 5:04:05 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:58:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:55:56 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

we elect new governors every couple of years. their powers aren't anything all that amazing or enticing. it's money that "corrupts" them, not power. and money pools.

well, different people are corrupted by different things.

well money is power really, it's just i was talking about our elected officials with no real chance of power rather than the bastards pulling their strings, if it's your thirst for power you're on about. and i figure we're all generally the same. besides my grandmother who's a lovely woman.

well, if I ever became a politican, I'd probably be viewed as one of the most "corrupted" since I strictly follow "keep your friends close and your enemies closer." So rather than turning down dirty money, I'd accept it, cozy up to the lobbiests, find out who is on their payroll and secretly out them to the public.

i'd fvck a lot of high class prostitutes and take a lot of high class cocaine.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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6/8/2011 6:57:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 5:04:05 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:58:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:55:56 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:45:28 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/8/2011 4:20:57 PM, Grape wrote:
How would you define a conspiracy? It is true that the PATRIOT Act is intentionally designed to reduce civil liberties and it is true that many people don't know/believe that. However, I consider the expansion of government power a characteristic of the institution that could easily be predicted by anyone, not a secret plot driven by a few individuals.

Exactly, because it is in the nature of government to grow, not contract. It is in the nature of those who hold power to seek more. It is also within the nature of the masses to easily relinquish their power to gain (even the illusion of) more security and material gain.

we elect new governors every couple of years. their powers aren't anything all that amazing or enticing. it's money that "corrupts" them, not power. and money pools.

well, different people are corrupted by different things.

well money is power really, it's just i was talking about our elected officials with no real chance of power rather than the bastards pulling their strings, if it's your thirst for power you're on about. and i figure we're all generally the same. besides my grandmother who's a lovely woman.

If it were me and I could use the white house for: power, money, or general good for others, I'd say that I would use it for money. Bill Clinton only got a blowjob from an ugly looking secretary. That's not really worth the effort to become president. But Dick Cheney used the white house to make a profit! He got rich off the Iraq War. That's the best way to use politics. Dick Cheney could pay for hookers, decent hookers with the money he made.
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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6/10/2011 12:14:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:05:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You and the conspiracists agree on most things except one thing: whether events are the result of accidents done by dumb politicians or whether events are purposefully done by smart politicians who desire power.


False Dilemma, there is are other options, such as events being the result of smart politicians and accidents or smart politicians and some dumb politicians with some accidents mixed in.

Call me the party pooper.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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6/11/2011 5:41:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe that they know what they're doing. Whether they are doing it for the right or wrong intentions is for you to decide.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/14/2011 5:04:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If it were me and I could use the white house for: power, money, or general good for others, I'd say that I would use it for money. Bill Clinton only got a blowjob from an ugly looking secretary.

Wrong. Clinton made millions from speakers fees and book deals. "Former president Bill Clinton stepped up the pace of his paid speaking engagements in 2009, bringing his total haul from these speeches to $65 million since leaving office in 2001." CNN http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com... Nonetheless, I don't think Clinton was in it mainly for the money. It was power.

That's not really worth the effort to become president. But Dick Cheney used the white house to make a profit! He got rich off the Iraq War. That's the best way to use politics. Dick Cheney could pay for hookers, decent hookers with the money he made.

Cheney didn't make anything from the war. Even Halliburton, from whom he had disassociated, didn't do well. Halliburton ended up selling off their military support division because profits were so low. Halliburton had fixed overhead rates and insurance costs soared as Iraq dragged on.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/14/2011 5:10:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 4:05:14 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You and the conspiracists agree on most things except one thing: whether events are the result of accidents done by dumb politicians or whether events are purposefully done by smart politicians who desire power.

Just about everything Alex Jones says is empirical observable fact, you guys merely disagree with the reason why it happens.

For example:

The Patriot Act exists: Accident or intentional?

Development of fascist microchips: Accident or intentional?


And don't overlook

Sunrise every day: Accident or intentional?

The Internet: Accident or intentional?

Video games: Accident or intentional?

All coins are round: Accident or intentional?

If you haven't figured it out, there are lots of things that are neither accidents nor the product of conspiracies. they are just products of how the world works.