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What exactly is communism?

mauricio2
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6/24/2011 3:44:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I have been studying communism for a few days now and from what I understand is that communist believe everyone is equal and everyone gets paid the same and stuff like that . I want to know exactly what are the benefits into having a communist country and the downers . I of course am a capitalist and I understand how capitalism work but I'm just trying to better understand communism from the best of the best and here opinions from both sides.
FREEDO
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6/24/2011 3:57:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There have been a few governments that have called themselves Communist. But ,by definition, Communism can only take place in a stateless and classless society. Due to this confusion, most Communists call themselves Anarcho-Communists to show show that they are Anarchists. Also, people would not be "paid the same" under a Communist society, since money would not exist and neither would property.
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fnord
FREEDO
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6/24/2011 4:04:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's also important to point out that not all Communists are Marxists. Karl Marx did not invent Communism. In-fact, when Marx first came on the scene there was a great divide between those who took sides with him, who saw government as a necessary tool for transitioning to Communism, and those who took sides with Mikhail Bakunin, who did not. Marx and Bakunin are both highly influential figures in Communism yet were both sworn enemies.
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fnord
innomen
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6/24/2011 4:04:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
We'd really need to know the context of what your studying, or what you're looking for, because there is the conceptual definition of communism, which FREEDO made mention of, and the actual application of it in such countries as the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela and China - which are really hardcore socialist countries with varying doses of collectivism.
FREEDO
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6/24/2011 4:08:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yet, there are more divisions still. Bakunin was a collectivist, who envisioned a Communistic society as being collective ownership of property. But when he did his supporters for the most part went in the direction of abolition of ownership rather than collectivization.

The non-existence of property can also be called Nonpropertarianism or Open-Source.

Sorry I keep posting, I keep thinking of other things I wanted to add.
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fnord
innomen
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6/24/2011 4:11:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 4:08:01 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Yet, there are more divisions still. Bakunin was a collectivist, who envisioned a Communistic society as being collective ownership of property. But when he did his supporters for the most part went in the direction of abolition of ownership rather than collectivization.

The non-existence of property can also be called Nonpropertarianism or Open-Source.

Sorry I keep posting, I keep thinking of other things I wanted to add.

Yes, communal living, and communal ownership doesn't appeal to everyone, and certainly didn't appeal to all the Russians. It was the enforcement of their ideals that led them away from their ideals.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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6/24/2011 10:01:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, innomen wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

This is a perfect way of puting it. lol
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
mauricio2
Posts: 129
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6/24/2011 2:59:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, innomen wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

Thats what I figured too lol
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/24/2011 3:39:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, innomen wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

I'm surprised to hear the DDO president make such claims. How is everyone in a communist system poor? Much more people would be considered "poor" in any system where higher wealth is the statistic comparison. 2% controlling 98% is a very unfair and unjust way of structuring a society. In your structure basically 98% are poor in comparison with the standard measurement for wealth which would be represented by the 2%.

So back up your claim mr. president. How does a communist system logically make everyone poor when everyone is getting the same resources?

Also, define poor and define wealth. Do you think you are wealthy and successful just because you have a nice car or a nice house, maybe because you have a fat stack of cash? Or do you define wealth and success by having freedom, time, and no bills to pay? If you think of success as the later of the 2...well then maybe you should rethink how you see society structure. Because anarcho-communism promotes far more happiness and freedom than any social structure that is ruled by the "wealthy" 2%.
mauricio2
Posts: 129
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6/24/2011 3:50:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 3:39:55 PM, wrote:
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

I'm surprised to hear the DDO president make such claims. How is everyone in a communist system poor? Much more people would be considered "poor" in any system where higher wealth is the statistic comparison. 2% controlling 98% is a very unfair and unjust way of structuring a society. In your structure basically 98% are poor in comparison with the standard measurement for wealth which would be represented by the 2%.

So back up your claim mr. president. How does a communist system logically make everyone poor when everyone is getting the same resources?

Also, define poor and define wealth. Do you think you are wealthy and successful just because you have a nice car or a nice house, maybe because you have a fat stack of cash? Or do you define wealth and success by having freedom, time, and no bills to pay? If you think of success as the later of the 2...well then maybe you should rethink how you see society structure. Because anarcho-communism promotes far more happiness and freedom than any social structure that is ruled by the "wealthy" 2%.

are you saying with communism you have freedom? cause last time i checked there is a huge lack of choice with communism. and funny thing is I havent herd people run away from a capitalist country , but I do here about hundreds of people running away from there communist country everyday .
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/24/2011 3:56:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 3:50:07 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
At 6/24/2011 3:39:55 PM, wrote:
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

I'm surprised to hear the DDO president make such claims. How is everyone in a communist system poor? Much more people would be considered "poor" in any system where higher wealth is the statistic comparison. 2% controlling 98% is a very unfair and unjust way of structuring a society. In your structure basically 98% are poor in comparison with the standard measurement for wealth which would be represented by the 2%.

So back up your claim mr. president. How does a communist system logically make everyone poor when everyone is getting the same resources?

Also, define poor and define wealth. Do you think you are wealthy and successful just because you have a nice car or a nice house, maybe because you have a fat stack of cash? Or do you define wealth and success by having freedom, time, and no bills to pay? If you think of success as the later of the 2...well then maybe you should rethink how you see society structure. Because anarcho-communism promotes far more happiness and freedom than any social structure that is ruled by the "wealthy" 2%.

are you saying with communism you have freedom? cause last time i checked there is a huge lack of choice with communism. and funny thing is I havent herd people run away from a capitalist country , but I do here about hundreds of people running away from there communist country everyday .

What you speak of is not communism. IF you look at the structure you would see that. Nobody would have to run from true communism because communism doesn't force anything. Their is nothing to run from.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/24/2011 3:57:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 3:44:41 PM, Merda wrote:
@Justin
Innomen is the president, not Cody.

I know Merda. It was directed at Innomen. Innomen is the one that wrote the post that I replied to. Check it.
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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6/24/2011 4:15:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, innomen wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

There are no rich and no poor. There is no money so class cannot be determined. "Communist" China has lots of rich people, exactly why its not communist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/24/2011 4:17:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 3:50:07 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
are you saying with communism you have freedom? cause last time i checked there is a huge lack of choice with communism. and funny thing is I havent herd people run away from a capitalist country , but I do here about hundreds of people running away from there communist country everyday .

Yeah, thanks for completely ignoring my posts.
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fnord
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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6/24/2011 4:22:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 3:56:16 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/24/2011 3:50:07 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
At 6/24/2011 3:39:55 PM, wrote:
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

I'm surprised to hear the DDO president make such claims. How is everyone in a communist system poor? Much more people would be considered "poor" in any system where higher wealth is the statistic comparison. 2% controlling 98% is a very unfair and unjust way of structuring a society. In your structure basically 98% are poor in comparison with the standard measurement for wealth which would be represented by the 2%.

So back up your claim mr. president. How does a communist system logically make everyone poor when everyone is getting the same resources?

Also, define poor and define wealth. Do you think you are wealthy and successful just because you have a nice car or a nice house, maybe because you have a fat stack of cash? Or do you define wealth and success by having freedom, time, and no bills to pay? If you think of success as the later of the 2...well then maybe you should rethink how you see society structure. Because anarcho-communism promotes far more happiness and freedom than any social structure that is ruled by the "wealthy" 2%.

are you saying with communism you have freedom? cause last time i checked there is a huge lack of choice with communism. and funny thing is I havent herd people run away from a capitalist country , but I do here about hundreds of people running away from there communist country everyday .

What you speak of is not communism. IF you look at the structure you would see that. Nobody would have to run from true communism because communism doesn't force anything. Their is nothing to run from.

Exactly, totalitarian communism is what people run from, not true communism. In true communism everyone is fed, clothed, sheltered, and given healthcare. While in totalitarian Chinese style communism none of those are true.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/24/2011 4:25:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 4:22:23 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
At 6/24/2011 3:56:16 PM, Justin_Chains wrote:
At 6/24/2011 3:50:07 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
At 6/24/2011 3:39:55 PM, wrote:
At 6/24/2011 9:47:05 AM, wrote:
'in a capitalist system there are very rich and very poor' and in a communist system there is just very poor.

I'm surprised to hear the DDO president make such claims. How is everyone in a communist system poor? Much more people would be considered "poor" in any system where higher wealth is the statistic comparison. 2% controlling 98% is a very unfair and unjust way of structuring a society. In your structure basically 98% are poor in comparison with the standard measurement for wealth which would be represented by the 2%.

So back up your claim mr. president. How does a communist system logically make everyone poor when everyone is getting the same resources?

Also, define poor and define wealth. Do you think you are wealthy and successful just because you have a nice car or a nice house, maybe because you have a fat stack of cash? Or do you define wealth and success by having freedom, time, and no bills to pay? If you think of success as the later of the 2...well then maybe you should rethink how you see society structure. Because anarcho-communism promotes far more happiness and freedom than any social structure that is ruled by the "wealthy" 2%.

are you saying with communism you have freedom? cause last time i checked there is a huge lack of choice with communism. and funny thing is I havent herd people run away from a capitalist country , but I do here about hundreds of people running away from there communist country everyday .

What you speak of is not communism. IF you look at the structure you would see that. Nobody would have to run from true communism because communism doesn't force anything. Their is nothing to run from.

Exactly, totalitarian communism is what people run from, not true communism. In true communism everyone is fed, clothed, sheltered, and given healthcare. While in totalitarian Chinese style communism none of those are true.

This.

At least someone finally gets it!
mauricio2
Posts: 129
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6/24/2011 4:57:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Why Shouldn't we rely on the government to feed us, dress us , and take care of us like that ? Shouldn't we have some independence ? I agree with the health care standards cause the people should get some care but everything else is just stupid. You cant have any independence, You cant have private property , and there's not even no motivation for workers to work cause " everyone is the same" so resources must be very low. With Capitalism you have the ability to be wealthy to have your own private property and expand it also ,with Capitalism you have the freedom to work,the freedom to dream,to compete,to advance and to invest and because of those freedoms civilization has progressed quickly and expanded quickly...Capitalism works and its has been working for a very long time.
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/24/2011 5:07:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 4:57:22 PM, mauricio2 wrote:
Why Shouldn't we rely on the government to feed us, dress us , and take care of us like that ? Shouldn't we have some independence ? I agree with the health care standards cause the people should get some care but everything else is just stupid. You cant have any independence, You cant have private property , and there's not even no motivation for workers to work cause " everyone is the same" so resources must be very low. With Capitalism you have the ability to be wealthy to have your own private property and expand it also ,with Capitalism you have the freedom to work,the freedom to dream,to compete,to advance and to invest and because of those freedoms civilization has progressed quickly and expanded quickly...Capitalism works and its has been working for a very long time.

You obviously don't understand communism very well. Maybe you should do some more research on the subject.

You said capitalism works fine. But.... Capitalism does not work efficiently and every capitalist nation always ends up crumbling in the end. It's a structure that eats itself away eventually, because it's not balanced. The more balanced something is, the longer it will last.

Balance = Sustainability

Communism strives for balance.

Capitalism strives for wealth accumulation and power.

The unbalanced structure is destructive to society and it fails as a social structure in the end.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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6/24/2011 5:10:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think an excerpt from the Tao Te Ching is pretty appropriate.

I think it accurately describes what most anarchists and capitalists would believe.

If you want to be a great leader, you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans and concepts, and the world will govern itself.
The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have, the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have, the less self-reliant people will be.

Therefore the Master says: I let go of the law, and people become honest.
I let go of economics, and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion, and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Justin_Chains
Posts: 623
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6/24/2011 5:13:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 5:10:51 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I think an excerpt from the Tao Te Ching is pretty appropriate.

I think it accurately describes what most anarchists and capitalists would believe.

If you want to be a great leader, you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans and concepts, and the world will govern itself.
The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have, the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have, the less self-reliant people will be.

Therefore the Master says: I let go of the law, and people become honest.
I let go of economics, and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion, and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

I find the words interesting, but how does it apply to capitalism. It seems to apply more to communism than capitalism.

Or was it a typo...
FREEDO
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6/24/2011 5:19:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 5:15:06 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
If communism doesn't force anything, there's nothing to stop markets from developing. :P

Besides the incentives behind sustaining a non-market system.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rockylightning
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6/24/2011 5:21:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 5:15:06 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
If communism doesn't force anything, there's nothing to stop markets from developing. :P

Except that everyone has everything they need, therefore no one would need to buy anything.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/24/2011 5:22:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 5:19:58 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2011 5:15:06 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
If communism doesn't force anything, there's nothing to stop markets from developing. :P

Besides the incentives behind sustaining a non-market system.

There are only incentives if you're A) an altruist who gets psychological pleasure from egalitarianism or B) an egoist whose total quality of life/net worth/whatever sits below where the equality line would be set. Then again, once getting to the equality line, there are probably greater incentives to try and advance.

Otherwise, you have to assume magic psychology to justify the assumption of a giant shift in the way people operate and make value judgments. :P
Cody_Franklin
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6/24/2011 5:23:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 5:21:59 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
At 6/24/2011 5:15:06 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
If communism doesn't force anything, there's nothing to stop markets from developing. :P

Except that everyone has everything they need, therefore no one would need to buy anything.

Because need is the only thing that drives economies? Yeah, okay.
Cody_Franklin
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6/24/2011 5:26:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/24/2011 5:23:53 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/24/2011 5:21:59 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
At 6/24/2011 5:15:06 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
If communism doesn't force anything, there's nothing to stop markets from developing. :P

Except that everyone has everything they need, therefore no one would need to buy anything.

Because need is the only thing that drives economies? Yeah, okay.

Also note that I'm speaking of markets developing both inside and outside of communes.