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A New Approach to Libertarian Revolution

Reasoning
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6/28/2011 9:29:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A number of ideas have been suggested from standard electoral politics to agorism to seasteading but I think my strategy to be both the most effective and the most likely.

One problem with the standard electoral politics plan is that most people just aren't willing to change their political beliefs because the marginal benefit of holding better positions does not exceed the marginal cost of reconstructing your word view from the ashes which it has necessarily become.

My solution: It has been found that progeny are very likely to hold similar political beliefs with their parents. My strategy then is simple, the mass procreation of libertarians.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/28/2011 10:03:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 9:29:22 PM, Reasoning wrote:
A number of ideas have been suggested from standard electoral politics to agorism to seasteading but I think my strategy to be both the most effective and the most likely.

One problem with the standard electoral politics plan is that most people just aren't willing to change their political beliefs because the marginal benefit of holding better positions does not exceed the marginal cost of reconstructing your word view from the ashes which it has necessarily become.

My solution: It has been found that progeny are very likely to hold similar political beliefs with their parents. My strategy then is simple, the mass procreation of libertarians.

I AM TOTALLY DOWN WITH THAT.
Reasoning
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6/28/2011 11:46:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/28/2011 10:03:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I AM TOTALLY DOWN WITH THAT.

As our numbers swell, so too will our influence.

The only question remaining is whether the male libertarians should mate with female libertarians and thereby keep the bloodline pure or if intermarrying with statists will succeed in spreading the libertarian gene more than enough to compensate for the lower ratio of libertarian offspring.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
belle
Posts: 4,113
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6/29/2011 12:31:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
i doubt you'd be able to find enough female libertarians to go around. just sleep with a statist and banish her to the kitchen...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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6/29/2011 12:38:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 12:31:40 AM, belle wrote:
i doubt you'd be able to find enough female libertarians to go around. just sleep with a statist and banish her to the kitchen...
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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6/29/2011 1:18:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 12:31:40 AM, belle wrote:
i doubt you'd be able to find enough female libertarians to go around. just sleep with a statist and banish her to the kitchen...

haha, i had to remind myself that you're female.
Xer
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6/29/2011 1:40:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

You believe having kids is authoritarian? Or is teaching kids one's own beliefs authoritarian?

Because neither is.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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6/29/2011 1:43:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

obviously because you're a socialist.
just kidding, but seriously, it isn't. maybe breeding to create an army of libertarians would be, but is there really anything inherently wrong about trying to raise your kids to appreciate the values you see fit? i mean indoctrination is one thing, but i think anything short of shoving the libertarian bible down your kid's throat is pretty okay.
jat93
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6/29/2011 1:44:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:43:05 AM, jat93 wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

obviously because you're a socialist.
just kidding, but seriously, it isn't. maybe breeding to create an army of libertarians would be, but is there really anything inherently wrong about trying to raise your kids to appreciate the values you see fit? i mean indoctrination is one thing, but i think anything short of shoving the libertarian bible down your kid's throat is pretty okay.

might i add that that would be the most kick@$$ bible of all time. yes, even better than thomas jefferson's where he kept all the good stuff and eliminated all the stuff about god.
Reasoning
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6/29/2011 1:44:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If I had to guess, I think reproducing with statists would be more efficient as it frees up libertarian chicks to also hook up with statists.

Of course, this means males are more important to the movement as they could theoretically procreate with numerous women in the time it takes for a female to produce one child.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
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6/29/2011 1:45:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:40:42 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

You believe having kids is authoritarian? Or is teaching kids one's own beliefs authoritarian?

Because neither is.

Parents should be abolished. This plan only works by coercing children into your own mindset. You run into a lot of wholes trying to explain how the kids actually have a choice in the matter.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Grape
Posts: 989
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6/29/2011 1:46:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:44:39 AM, Reasoning wrote:
If I had to guess, I think reproducing with statists would be more efficient as it frees up libertarian chicks to also hook up with statists.

Of course, this means males are more important to the movement as they could theoretically procreate with numerous women in the time it takes for a female to produce one child.

I thought there were already lots of female libertarians?
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/29/2011 1:49:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:45:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:40:42 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

You believe having kids is authoritarian? Or is teaching kids one's own beliefs authoritarian?

Because neither is.

Parents should be abolished. This plan only works by coercing children into your own mindset. You run into a lot of wholes trying to explain how the kids actually have a choice in the matter.

What do you propose alternatively?
Reasoning
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6/29/2011 1:49:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:43:05 AM, jat93 wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

obviously because you're a socialist.
just kidding, but seriously, it isn't. maybe breeding to create an army of libertarians would be, but is there really anything inherently wrong about trying to raise your kids to appreciate the values you see fit? i mean indoctrination is one thing, but i think anything short of shoving the libertarian bible down your kid's throat is pretty okay.

You don't even need to indoctrinate them. The research shows that politics are in fact partially hereditary: http://scholar.google.com...

This means that the child of a libertarian has a significantly increased probability of being sympathetic to libertarian ideas than a child without a libertarian parent raised in the same environment.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/29/2011 1:50:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:45:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:40:42 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

You believe having kids is authoritarian? Or is teaching kids one's own beliefs authoritarian?

Because neither is.

Parents should be abolished.
Needs justification.
This plan only works by coercing children into your own mindset. You run into a lot of wholes trying to explain how the kids actually have a choice in the matter.
Of course children are more likely to believe what their parents believe, but coercion isn't necessary at all.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/29/2011 1:51:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:46:29 AM, Grape wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:44:39 AM, Reasoning wrote:
If I had to guess, I think reproducing with statists would be more efficient as it frees up libertarian chicks to also hook up with statists.

Of course, this means males are more important to the movement as they could theoretically procreate with numerous women in the time it takes for a female to produce one child.

I thought there were already lots of female libertarians?
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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6/29/2011 1:52:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:49:37 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:43:05 AM, jat93 wrote:
At 6/29/2011 1:38:04 AM, FREEDO wrote:
I see that as an inherently authoritarian concept.

obviously because you're a socialist.
just kidding, but seriously, it isn't. maybe breeding to create an army of libertarians would be, but is there really anything inherently wrong about trying to raise your kids to appreciate the values you see fit? i mean indoctrination is one thing, but i think anything short of shoving the libertarian bible down your kid's throat is pretty okay.

You don't even need to indoctrinate them. The research shows that politics are in fact partially hereditary: http://scholar.google.com...

This means that the child of a libertarian has a significantly increased probability of being sympathetic to libertarian ideas than a child without a libertarian parent raised in the same environment.

makes sense. it's really genetics 101, kids have increased probability of inheriting parts of their parent's personality, nothing crazy and no indoctrinating necessary. then again, the different environments might make a difference, so this would seem to necessitate putting the child through the same exact situations as the parent in order to ensure full fledged libertarianism. let the libertarian revolution begin.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/29/2011 2:01:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There's a serious free rider problem here. And we'll never keep up with the statists because most of them are too moronic or emotional to free ride on it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Reasoning
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6/29/2011 2:03:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 2:01:20 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There's a serious free rider problem here. And we'll never keep up with the statists because most of them are too moronic or emotional to free ride on it.

What free rider problem is that? Reaping the benefits of an increased libertarian population without needing to have children?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/29/2011 2:58:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 2:03:03 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/29/2011 2:01:20 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There's a serious free rider problem here. And we'll never keep up with the statists because most of them are too moronic or emotional to free ride on it.

What free rider problem is that? Reaping the benefits of an increased libertarian population without needing to have children?

Precisely.

Raising a child to adulthood is an 18 year commitment, and pretty big financially too. The marginal value of adding one particular voter is next to null in comparison to its costs, and no particular individual has a reasonable expectation that enough people will take on those costs to get anything done.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
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6/29/2011 3:37:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 2:58:09 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/29/2011 2:03:03 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/29/2011 2:01:20 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There's a serious free rider problem here. And we'll never keep up with the statists because most of them are too moronic or emotional to free ride on it.

What free rider problem is that? Reaping the benefits of an increased libertarian population without needing to have children?

Precisely.

Raising a child to adulthood is an 18 year commitment, and pretty big financially too. The marginal value of adding one particular voter is next to null in comparison to its costs, and no particular individual has a reasonable expectation that enough people will take on those costs to get anything done.

http://www.amazon.com...

^Reasoning's likely reply.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/29/2011 4:01:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 3:37:55 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/29/2011 2:58:09 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/29/2011 2:03:03 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 6/29/2011 2:01:20 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
There's a serious free rider problem here. And we'll never keep up with the statists because most of them are too moronic or emotional to free ride on it.

What free rider problem is that? Reaping the benefits of an increased libertarian population without needing to have children?

Precisely.

Raising a child to adulthood is an 18 year commitment, and pretty big financially too. The marginal value of adding one particular voter is next to null in comparison to its costs, and no particular individual has a reasonable expectation that enough people will take on those costs to get anything done.

http://www.amazon.com...

^Reasoning's likely reply.

First review:
"RELAX. Your day-to-day parenting may have some short-term consequences but in the long-run, your children will basically turn out just like you. Want proof? You turned out like your parents, didn't you?"

No, pretty sure I haven't.

Also, I'm not in the habit of accepting "Yo dawg there's a book that agrees with me" (in it's title... the reviews don't even seem to say that's really it's thesis) as a reply
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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6/29/2011 4:11:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 4:01:44 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
First review:
"RELAX. Your day-to-day parenting may have some short-term consequences but in the long-run, your children will basically turn out just like you. Want proof? You turned out like your parents, didn't you?"

No, pretty sure I haven't.

You may not, but it is too early to say.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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6/29/2011 4:18:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 4:01:44 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Also, I'm not in the habit of accepting "Yo dawg there's a book that agrees with me" (in it's title... the reviews don't even seem to say that's really it's thesis) as a reply

...

The central message of this book is based in simple economics. Right now you have some sense of the costs and benefits of having children, and you use this idea to determine the optimal number of children for your family. The book explains how and why most people are wrong about these costs and benefits: children are almost certainly less costly than you think, and they are probably at least as beneficial as you think.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/29/2011 4:28:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 4:11:23 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 6/29/2011 4:01:44 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
First review:
"RELAX. Your day-to-day parenting may have some short-term consequences but in the long-run, your children will basically turn out just like you. Want proof? You turned out like your parents, didn't you?"

No, pretty sure I haven't.

You may not, but it is too early to say.

This is very true, there will likely be variations on a common theme.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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6/29/2011 4:47:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/29/2011 1:49:37 AM, Reasoning wrote:

You don't even need to indoctrinate them. The research shows that politics are in fact partially hereditary: http://scholar.google.com...

This means that the child of a libertarian has a significantly increased probability of being sympathetic to libertarian ideas than a child without a libertarian parent raised in the same environment.

I call BS. That link is just a google scholar search for heritability + poltics and the articles listed don't seem to support your statement much. I would be extremely sceptical that genetics has a significant impact on political ideology. Quite an amusing idea though, if that's all that is intended.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/29/2011 10:55:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It would be just as productive to convince everyone else not to procreate, or just not to vote.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light