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government debt and private sector

flames
Posts: 69
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7/12/2011 7:36:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
how has high government debt hurt the private sector from creating jobs

cause first republicans said under dick cheney debt doesn't matter now their screaming the debt is hurting the private sector
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/12/2011 8:58:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 7:36:37 PM, flames wrote:
how has high government debt hurt the private sector from creating jobs

Government debt and the consequent taxation to pay for it redistributes wealth from the productive to boring old risk averse fogies who lend to the government. This encourages risk aversion and discourages productivity. Though, this doesn't necessarily hurt the "private sector" in the sense of your friendly local CEO. He just retires and becomes a boring old fogie instead of building another business. What it hurts is job seekers when they face an undersupply of non-fogies.


cause first republicans said under dick cheney debt doesn't matter now their screaming the debt is hurting the private sector.
You're confused, "Republicans" isn't a person, it's a group containing diverse philosophies.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/12/2011 9:29:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 8:58:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/12/2011 7:36:37 PM, flames wrote:
how has high government debt hurt the private sector from creating jobs

Government debt and the consequent taxation to pay for it redistributes wealth from the productive to boring old risk averse fogies who lend to the government. This encourages risk aversion and discourages productivity. Though, this doesn't necessarily hurt the "private sector" in the sense of your friendly local CEO. He just retires and becomes a boring old fogie instead of building another business. What it hurts is job seekers when they face an undersupply of non-fogies.


cause first republicans said under dick cheney debt doesn't matter now their screaming the debt is hurting the private sector.
You're confused, "Republicans" isn't a person, it's a group containing diverse philosophies.

Reply: Do you really think that a group cannot represent a single cause or idea? You used this same reasoning against me using the terminology "the people". Group representation does exist. This is what is meant by "the people" or "Republicans".

Question: Are you refuting this?
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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7/12/2011 10:43:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Compare Ron Paul to George W. Bush.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/12/2011 10:53:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 10:43:11 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Compare Ron Paul to George W. Bush.

Reply: I understand your meaning, but it falls far from my own. What I mean is that a group can represent an ideal or a concept. There is a group called "republicans" that represent a certain platform, when you say that "republicans say this" that is what it refers to, and rightfully so. If you do not wish to be grouped together with your label, then don't identify yourself as part of the group.

Those two men may be different and they represented different things at different times, but they are still "republicans" and can be justifiably referred to as such. That is my point.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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7/12/2011 10:55:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well, technically you are right. They are all republicans, and they are SUPPOSED to represent a certain position.

This doesn't always happen in practice.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/12/2011 11:37:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A political party's job isn't to represent a philosophy; it's purpose is to get people into office. This means that they often don't share a coherent philosophy.

Some parties do try to have a unifying ideology, but those parties aren't successful.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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7/13/2011 1:43:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 11:37:57 PM, wjmelements wrote:
A political party's job isn't to represent a philosophy; it's purpose is to get people into office. This means that they often don't share a coherent philosophy.

Some parties do try to have a unifying ideology, but those parties aren't successful.

I think political parties used to be more successful in creating unifying ideologies. Take the Democratic Republican party created by Jefferson and Madison for instance. It didn't last long, only from the 1790s until the 1830s but that's the thing - back then, parties would dissolve and new ones would be founded if a lot of people wanted to do so. Now, not only has the power of the media and of a materialistic society changed the way things used to work (what used to be about belief system and accurate representation of ideas is now more or less a beauty contest), but the two primary political parties in America have been around changing for so long that nobody really knows what they stand for anymore. There are so many different sub-groups within both the Democratic and Republican parties, it's actually quite ridiculous. Perhaps it is time for new political parties to better represent all those differing ideologies. And not just those parties that choose candidates but don't actually have any hope whatsoever at getting represented. You know, like the marijuana party and stuff.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/13/2011 3:16:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/12/2011 9:29:41 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 7/12/2011 8:58:48 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/12/2011 7:36:37 PM, flames wrote:
how has high government debt hurt the private sector from creating jobs

Government debt and the consequent taxation to pay for it redistributes wealth from the productive to boring old risk averse fogies who lend to the government. This encourages risk aversion and discourages productivity. Though, this doesn't necessarily hurt the "private sector" in the sense of your friendly local CEO. He just retires and becomes a boring old fogie instead of building another business. What it hurts is job seekers when they face an undersupply of non-fogies.


cause first republicans said under dick cheney debt doesn't matter now their screaming the debt is hurting the private sector.
You're confused, "Republicans" isn't a person, it's a group containing diverse philosophies.

Reply: Do you really think that a group cannot represent a single cause or idea?
In this case as it's a voluntary group it CAN, but it DOESN'T. It's not just a group-- it's a group containing diverse philosophies :P.

Group representation does exist. This is what is meant by "the people" or "Republicans".
A representative of a political party could theoretically exist-- but it happens not to in the case of the Republicans or the Democrats.

A representative of "the people" does not and cannot.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/13/2011 3:28:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It would be one thing to gloat if they were the same wing of the party that was doing these things-- like the religious right, say, was for gay marriage last week and isn't this week. But that's not how it is here-- the elements of the Bush administration which told us that the debt didn't matter were operating on a neocon economic idea-- which is to say, a welfare liberal economic idea, as neocons are modern liberals who changed their tune toward conservatism on foreign policy, crime, that sort of thing, not the economy. (The idea, expressed by the founder of neoconservatism: " "We should figure out what we want before we calculate what we can afford, not the reverse.")

Neoconservatism and the modern conservatism/neoclassical liberalism (Same thing, different emphasis) that motivate the present Republican complaints about debt are wings of the Republican party that have next to nothing in common with one another except hating the Democrats more.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.