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A facebook post I saw today

Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?
Rob
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/15/2011 12:36:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

No.

Don't like murder? Don't commit it.
Don't like rape? Don't do it.

While I agree with some of the points made, the reasoning presented is not a logical argument.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/15/2011 12:41:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

Not really no... people are not opposed to something just because they personally don't want to partake of it. People oppose gun rights to preserve their own personal right to life for instance.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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7/15/2011 12:44:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...

Pro-lifers would read this as "Don't like murders? Don't commit one..." Is that sound logic to you?
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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7/15/2011 1:23:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

It's a facebook forward, almost by definition the logic has to be fallacious.
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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7/15/2011 2:30:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

The people who don't like these things, believe that somehow letting it happen will bite them in the @ss later.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/15/2011 3:04:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:44:24 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...

Pro-lifers would read this as "Don't like murders? Don't commit one..." Is that sound logic to you?

False analogy. Murder is infringing on someone else. The things in the Facebook post are personal things that dont affect others.

If someone wants a gay marriage, how is that harming you in anyway other than the fact that you personally wouldn't get one.

I don't like the taste of onions, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ban everyone else from eating onions. That's absurd. Same with the case of marijuana. Don't like it, don't smoke it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/15/2011 3:07:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:04:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:44:24 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...

Pro-lifers would read this as "Don't like murders? Don't commit one..." Is that sound logic to you?

False analogy. Murder is infringing on someone else. The things in the Facebook post are personal things that dont affect others.

If someone wants a gay marriage, how is that harming you in anyway other than the fact that you personally wouldn't get one.

I don't like the taste of onions, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ban everyone else from eating onions. That's absurd. Same with the case of marijuana. Don't like it, don't smoke it.

Pro-lifers consider abortion an infringement on the rights of a fetus.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/15/2011 3:19:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:04:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:44:24 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...

Pro-lifers would read this as "Don't like murders? Don't commit one..." Is that sound logic to you?

False analogy. Murder is infringing on someone else. The things in the Facebook post are personal things that dont affect others.

If someone wants a gay marriage, how is that harming you in anyway other than the fact that you personally wouldn't get one.

I don't like the taste of onions, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ban everyone else from eating onions. That's absurd. Same with the case of marijuana. Don't like it, don't smoke it.

Geo pwns the thread.
Rob
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/15/2011 3:20:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:07:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pro-lifers consider abortion an infringement on the rights of a fetus.

Pro-fappers consider masturbation an infringement on the rights of sperm. I guess that would make them anti-fappers...
Rob
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/15/2011 3:23:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:20:47 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:07:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pro-lifers consider abortion an infringement on the rights of a fetus.

Pro-fappers consider masturbation an infringement on the rights of sperm. I guess that would make them anti-fappers...

No sane person would consider a sperm a living being. Fertilization is another issue though.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/15/2011 3:32:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Just because some people consider something a right does not mean it is, likewise, just because some people consider something not a right does not mean it isn't.

Does a fetus have the right to life? Debatable.
Do you have the right to consume whatever you want? Debatabe.

You'll find people out there that think that women and blacks should still be property with no rights at all, doesn't mean they are right.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/15/2011 3:37:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:32:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Just because some people consider something a right does not mean it is, likewise, just because some people consider something not a right does not mean it isn't.

Does a fetus have the right to life? Debatable.
Do you have the right to consume whatever you want? Debatabe.

You'll find people out there that think that women and blacks should still be property with no rights at all, doesn't mean they are right.

Do people not have the right to self-ownership?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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7/15/2011 4:17:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:37:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Do people not have the right to self-ownership?

That's what I want to know!

http://www.debate.org...
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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7/15/2011 4:18:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:23:38 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:20:47 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:07:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Pro-lifers consider abortion an infringement on the rights of a fetus.

Pro-fappers consider masturbation an infringement on the rights of sperm. I guess that would make them anti-fappers...

No sane person would consider a sperm a living being. Fertilization is another issue though.

No sane person would consider an embryo a person with rights to be protected, either. If I showed you an embryo, a bundle of cells that is, under a microscope, and said "this embryo has rights," you would be right in slapping me across the face to see if I am perhaps in a drug-induced stupor.
Rob
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/15/2011 5:03:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:36:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

No.

Don't like murder? Don't commit it.
Don't like rape? Don't do it.

While I agree with some of the points made, the reasoning presented is not a logical argument.:

The distinguishing factor is the original list has no instances of infringing on someone else's rights (save, maybe, abortion). Rape and murder require you to directly infringe on someone else's rights, the others don't.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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7/15/2011 5:33:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:04:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:44:24 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...

Pro-lifers would read this as "Don't like murders? Don't commit one..." Is that sound logic to you?

False analogy. Murder is infringing on someone else. The things in the Facebook post are personal things that dont affect others.

How many times do I have to explain this? Abortion cannot be carelessly categorized as one of those if one considers the fetus to have a right to life.

If someone wants a gay marriage, how is that harming you in anyway other than the fact that you personally wouldn't get one.

I don't like the taste of onions, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ban everyone else from eating onions. That's absurd. Same with the case of marijuana. Don't like it, don't smoke it.

Those examples aren't the same, and you already know why. Abortion isn't opposed because people don't like the idea of abortions. It's opposed because people think that it does infringe upon rights.
jat93
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7/15/2011 5:36:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:07:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:04:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:44:24 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...

Pro-lifers would read this as "Don't like murders? Don't commit one..." Is that sound logic to you?

False analogy. Murder is infringing on someone else. The things in the Facebook post are personal things that dont affect others.

If someone wants a gay marriage, how is that harming you in anyway other than the fact that you personally wouldn't get one.

I don't like the taste of onions, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ban everyone else from eating onions. That's absurd. Same with the case of marijuana. Don't like it, don't smoke it.

Pro-lifers consider abortion an infringement on the rights of a fetus.

Pro-lifers are wrong.
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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7/15/2011 6:02:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 4:18:58 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:23:38 PM, darkkermit wrote:
No sane person would consider a sperm a living being. Fertilization is another issue though.

No sane person would consider an embryo a person with rights to be protected, either. If I showed you an embryo, a bundle of cells that is, under a microscope, and said "this embryo has rights," you would be right in slapping me across the face to see if I am perhaps in a drug-induced stupor.

If that embryo doesn't have a right to its own life?

Why doesn't it have a right to its own life?
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
Chuz-Life
Posts: 1,789
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7/15/2011 6:04:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 5:33:19 PM, mongeese wrote:
Abortion isn't opposed because people don't like the idea of abortions. It's opposed because people think that it does infringe upon rights.

It shouldn't even need to be explained but for whatever reasons, it does.
"Sooner or later, the Supreme Court of the Unites States is going to have explain how a 'child in the womb' is a person enough to be recognized as a MURDER victim under our fetal homicide laws but how they are not persons enough to qualify for any other Constitutional protections" ~ Chuz Life

http://www.debate.org...
el-badgero
Posts: 1,045
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7/15/2011 7:07:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
what's logic got to do with anything?
DATCMOTO's moustache makes him look like an eejit...

edit: nah, i'm jealous... God's an eejit definitely though!
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/16/2011 1:33:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

Technically, it's not sound because there is a hidden assumption implicit in all of the statements.

For the sake of clarity, I'll make that assumption explicit:

If an action doesn't harm anyone apart from those that consent to engage in it, then that action is permitted.

I happen to agree with that, since I'm not a fascist. The real question, then, is whether that is true of all of the examples listed.

Number three is question begging, since it wasn't established in the argument that abortion doesn't entail the destruction of a person.

Number eight is also problematic, since it wasn't established that letting people freely buy guns won't harm other people.

So, to answer your question, the argument isn't sound. The person who made it will have to try harder.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/16/2011 1:51:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 12:36:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

No.

Don't like murder? Don't commit it.
Don't like rape? Don't do it.

Haha, that's immediately what popped into my head.

While I agree with some of the points made, the reasoning presented is not a logical argument.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/16/2011 2:03:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 3:37:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:32:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Just because some people consider something a right does not mean it is, likewise, just because some people consider something not a right does not mean it isn't.

Does a fetus have the right to life? Debatable.
Do you have the right to consume whatever you want? Debatabe.

You'll find people out there that think that women and blacks should still be property with no rights at all, doesn't mean they are right.

Do people not have the right to self-ownership?

No.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/16/2011 2:06:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/15/2011 5:03:45 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:36:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/15/2011 12:16:14 PM, Lasagna wrote:
Don't like gay marriages? Don't get one...
Don't like cigarettes? Don't smoke them...
Don't like abortions? Don't get one...
Don't like sex? Don't have it...
Don't like drugs? Don't do them...
Don't like porn? Don't watch it...
Don't like alcohol? Don't drink it...
Don't like guns? Don't buy one...
Don't like your rights taken away???
Don't take away someone else's!
{re-post if you agree}

Do you guys think this is sound logic?

No.

Don't like murder? Don't commit it.
Don't like rape? Don't do it.

While I agree with some of the points made, the reasoning presented is not a logical argument.:

The distinguishing factor is the original list has no instances of infringing on someone else's rights (save, maybe, abortion). Rape and murder require you to directly infringe on someone else's rights, the others don't.

rights are subjective.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/16/2011 2:08:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/16/2011 2:03:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:37:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:32:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Just because some people consider something a right does not mean it is, likewise, just because some people consider something not a right does not mean it isn't.

Does a fetus have the right to life? Debatable.
Do you have the right to consume whatever you want? Debatabe.

You'll find people out there that think that women and blacks should still be property with no rights at all, doesn't mean they are right.

Do people not have the right to self-ownership?

No.

Intriguing. Who then, do you think should own a person's body and what reason should any other entity have a claim to another person's body?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/16/2011 2:15:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/16/2011 2:08:18 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/16/2011 2:03:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:37:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:32:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Just because some people consider something a right does not mean it is, likewise, just because some people consider something not a right does not mean it isn't.

Does a fetus have the right to life? Debatable.
Do you have the right to consume whatever you want? Debatabe.

You'll find people out there that think that women and blacks should still be property with no rights at all, doesn't mean they are right.

Do people not have the right to self-ownership?

No.

Intriguing. Who then, do you think should own a person's body and what reason should any other entity have a claim to another person's body?

the "owner" is who the person with the most power says is the owner. If the person (or entity, since it is often government, not a person) with the most power allows you to have self-ownership, than you have it, enjoy. If they are a ruthless dictator, than you don't have that right. On an objective level, there are no natural rights.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/16/2011 2:24:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/16/2011 2:15:20 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/16/2011 2:08:18 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/16/2011 2:03:11 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:37:35 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2011 3:32:24 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Just because some people consider something a right does not mean it is, likewise, just because some people consider something not a right does not mean it isn't.

Does a fetus have the right to life? Debatable.
Do you have the right to consume whatever you want? Debatabe.

You'll find people out there that think that women and blacks should still be property with no rights at all, doesn't mean they are right.

Do people not have the right to self-ownership?

No.

Intriguing. Who then, do you think should own a person's body and what reason should any other entity have a claim to another person's body?

the "owner" is who the person with the most power says is the owner. If the person (or entity, since it is often government, not a person) with the most power allows you to have self-ownership, than you have it, enjoy. If they are a ruthless dictator, than you don't have that right. On an objective level, there are no natural rights.

So force determines ownership of property? Wouldn't ownership of one's own body be more optimal then if another entity owned it? The entity could obtain satisfaction from another's body, however the body owner would not receive the same satisfaction.

That takes a nihilism outlook on everythng in which murder and rape is permissible. It changes what "should" be for what "is".
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...