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The Debt Ceiling Compromise is Garbage

HisFlyness
Posts: 17
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8/2/2011 9:54:10 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
A compromise is supposed to be when two sides concede certain goals in order to achieve one common goal between the two pares. This debt ceiling compromise gives up essentially what each side wanted while NOT getting what they wanted in common, namely long-term deficit reduction and adjustments to the status quo to keep unbalanced budgets like this one from happening again. There's not one instance of revenue increasing; I'll believe the $1.5 trillion in cuts when I see it.
"Not All Those Who Wander Are Lost." - Tolkein...or Babe Ruth. One of those guys.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/2/2011 10:04:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 9:54:10 AM, HisFlyness wrote:
A compromise is supposed to be when two sides concede certain goals in order to achieve one common goal between the two pares. This debt ceiling compromise gives up essentially what each side wanted while NOT getting what they wanted in common, namely long-term deficit reduction and adjustments to the status quo to keep unbalanced budgets like this one from happening again. There's not one instance of revenue increasing; I'll believe the $1.5 trillion in cuts when I see it.

The bill has $1.8 trillion in cuts off the bat, as well as $1.5 trillion that they must cut later. If they don't decide on any cuts, then $1.5 trillion will automatically be cut from the Military and the Big Three.

It is also highly expected (unless Obama caves yet again) that the Bush Tax Cuts will be allowed to expire (though that's been said before).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/2/2011 1:15:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've have to say that this compromise is like pouring a truckload of manure onto a raging fire. Doesn't smell nice, but it'll take longer before we fry.
BennyW
Posts: 698
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8/3/2011 11:25:55 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Exactly, nobody wins.
Here is my compromise, Republicans agree to cut military spending if Democrats agree to cut social programs.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/3/2011 11:40:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 11:25:55 AM, BennyW wrote:
Exactly, nobody wins.
Here is my compromise, Republicans agree to cut military spending if Democrats agree to cut social programs.

That was the comprimise (though a little more specific).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/3/2011 1:28:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The compromise was important, I think historic, because it changes the nature of what is acceptable as a compromise. In the past, Democrats would want to increase government by 10% and Republicans would resist, wanting to increase government by 4%. A good, acceptable, moderate,middle-of-the-road compromise was then to increase government by 7%. Those are not any actual numbers, but the point is that traditionally all compromises were framed in the domain how much government would grow, not whether it would grow or shrink.

The debt ceiling compromise is the first time a compromise did not expand government. There were no new taxes, and cuts were actually made. It's true that the cuts were small, but they proved that cuts are possible.

The Left recognizes how serious this is:

Rep. Mike Doyle, a Democrat from PA, said, according to sources who were in the room. "This small group of terrorists have made it impossible to spend any money." http://www.thecitizennews.com...

That's how a deal that seems like nothing can strike real terror.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/3/2011 2:11:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I got an idea. How about we cut spending for the TSA, the military industrial complex, law enforcement reduction, stop giving billions of dollars to the UN, cut all foreign aid, eliminate Super-Congress, and abolish the counterfit printing press (aka the Federal Reserve).
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/3/2011 2:18:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 2:11:25 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I got an idea. How about we cut spending for the TSA, the military industrial complex, law enforcement reduction, stop giving billions of dollars to the UN, cut all foreign aid, eliminate Super-Congress, and abolish the counterfit printing press (aka the Federal Reserve).

Because that would increase spending. Terrorists would destroy major city-center targets which would cost a fortune to rebuild, and great sums would have to be spent in bribes to Iran and North Korea.

Besides, the real money is in entitlements.
freedomsquared
Posts: 450
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8/3/2011 2:21:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/2/2011 10:04:40 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/2/2011 9:54:10 AM, HisFlyness wrote:
A compromise is supposed to be when two sides concede certain goals in order to achieve one common goal between the two pares. This debt ceiling compromise gives up essentially what each side wanted while NOT getting what they wanted in common, namely long-term deficit reduction and adjustments to the status quo to keep unbalanced budgets like this one from happening again. There's not one instance of revenue increasing; I'll believe the $1.5 trillion in cuts when I see it.

The bill has $1.8 trillion in cuts off the bat, as well as $1.5 trillion that they must cut later. If they don't decide on any cuts, then $1.5 trillion will automatically be cut from the Military and the Big Three.

Although it may be the smart thing to cut military spending, it won't happen. If push comes to shove, we'll cut more social spending before we simply drop 3 foreign wars on a dime to save money for the deficit.

It is also highly expected (unless Obama caves yet again) that the Bush Tax Cuts will be allowed to expire (though that's been said before).
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/3/2011 2:40:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 2:21:52 PM, freedomsquared wrote:
Although it may be the smart thing to cut military spending, it won't happen. If push comes to shove, we'll cut more social spending before we simply drop 3 foreign wars on a dime to save money for the deficit.

The three wars total less than $200 billion. The deficit is $1650 billion.

From the defence savings figure the extra costs incurred from Iran taking over Iraq, and from terrorists having a safe haven in Afghanistan. No problem dumping the Libya war, but it's trivial.


It is also highly expected (unless Obama caves yet again) that the Bush Tax Cuts will be allowed to expire (though that's been said before).

Bush tax cuts are $300 billion, of which about $70 billion is from those making over $150K. The deficit is $1650 billion.

Raising tax rates does not mean that the government actually gets that much money. For example, Maryland and Oregon raised tax rates and revenues dropped. New York raised rates and only obtained a fraction of what a simple calculation would suggest. The tax code has 30,000 pages of loopholes, put there as incentives for people to spend money in specific ways rather than pay taxes. It works to that effect.

We need a debate on Leftist mathematics.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/3/2011 2:48:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/3/2011 2:40:33 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/3/2011 2:21:52 PM, freedomsquared wrote:
Although it may be the smart thing to cut military spending, it won't happen. If push comes to shove, we'll cut more social spending before we simply drop 3 foreign wars on a dime to save money for the deficit.

The three wars total less than $200 billion. The deficit is $1650 billion.

That's over 10% of the deficit right there. And lets not forget the money spent on maintaining bases in Germany, Japan, and all around the world.


From the defence savings figure the extra costs incurred from Iran taking over Iraq, and from terrorists having a safe haven in Afghanistan. No problem dumping the Libya war, but it's trivial.

Some military spending is, of course, justified. But there is a verity of military spending that isn't.



It is also highly expected (unless Obama caves yet again) that the Bush Tax Cuts will be allowed to expire (though that's been said before).

Bush tax cuts are $300 billion, of which about $70 billion is from those making over $150K. The deficit is $1650 billion.

That comes up to almost 20%, heck, that piled with the wars and other military spending that isn't needed will take care of over 30% of the deficit.


Raising tax rates does not mean that the government actually gets that much money. For example, Maryland and Oregon raised tax rates and revenues dropped. New York raised rates and only obtained a fraction of what a simple calculation would suggest. The tax code has 30,000 pages of loopholes, put there as incentives for people to spend money in specific ways rather than pay taxes. It works to that effect.

We need a debate on Leftist mathematics.

That's called the Laffer curve. There's an area where raising taxes hurts revenue, and an area where it helps revenue. When it comes to federal taxes, seeing our tax rates of the past indicate that we are on the left side of the curve (raising taxes will raise revenue).

We can also get rid of the majority (if not all) the loopholes (I don't think you're going to find too many every day people that support the loopholes, apart from marriage tax breaks, and children tax breaks).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"