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The benefits of White Seperatism

Joseph_Mengele
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8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Introduction:

Greetings, I am new to this website and thought that this would be an excellent subject to post in the "Politics" section of the Forums. I am probably aware that this subject might cause a lot of controversy, but as most of you are aware, this is called debate.org for reason. (For the sole purpose of debating and dissecting your opponents arguments.) Now, before many of you folks go on the rant about how I might be "trolling", why don't you read this post and then come up with your own conclusion without being biased at the title or at what you are currently reading.

Body:

For some reason, White Seperatism is considered a dead political ideology. Some people may not even consider it to be an existent or even an effective political ideology, but I beg to differ.

Here are some common misconceptions about White Seperatism:

1. White Seperatism is just another word for White Supremacism.

2. White Seperatism is a harmful social ideology towards minorities or anyone that isn't considered white.

3. White Seperatism is a violent ideology.

4. White Seperatism leads to White Supremacism.

Now I can list many more misconceptions about White Seperatism, but I think it fits best that I show you folks why these few here are incorrect.

1. White Seperatism is just another word for White Supremacism.

White Seperatism isn't another term to coin White Supremacism. While it is true that in the past there have been famous white supremacists like Adolf Hitler that wanted white seperatism, he tried to achieve that by advocating White Supremacism, thus showing his real motive as a white supremacist and not a white seperatist. Also, if you look back at history, there weren't nearly as many white seperatists that wanted White Supremacism. You can even see some present day examples of white seperatists who don't preach white supremacism. Some of them are Nick Griffin and David Duke.

2. White Seperatism is a harmful social and/or political ideology towards minorities or anyone that isn't considered white.

Here I will clearly give you the definition of White Seperatism from a number of reputable sources so that there is minimal confusion:

A. Wikipedia: White separatism is a separatist political movement that seeks separate economic and cultural development for white people.

B. Thefreedictionary: One who advocates the creation of a society in which whites live separately from other races or from which nonwhite races are excluded.

C. http://dictionary.reference.com...: A social system in which white people live separately from members of other races.

As you can see in those above definitions there is no mention of hostility towards minorites. So where do these ideas generate from? Perhaps this is a common misconception among liberals or minorites? I can see this since they inherently disagree with the morality of a position that it is automatically considered a flawed social and/or political ideology from their point of view. I can see why they take this position. It is because liberals and/or a lot of minorites are intolerant from the start and are unwilling to compromise or take another person's perspective on a subject.

If anything, a white seperatist social and/or political ideology is postitive (helpful) towards minorites. For one reason being that it causes all of the people that the minorites identify as being "racist", excluded from their life. Therefore, since the racist person(s) are removed from their daily life, it gives them greater happiness because they then don't have to take the burden of having to tolerate their racism and/or racist remarks. (Which is legal by the way, considering freedom of speech.)

3. White Seperatism is a violent ideology.

How would White Seperatism be a violent ideology? If anything, White Seperatism is a peaceful ideology because it keeps the races apart from any disagreement that could possibly (and will) happen. It should also be noted that one can't use the political notion; "racial segregation" to counter this claim that I made since racial seperatism and racial segregation are different.

4. White Seperatism leads to White Supremacism.

This notion that many come up with (including most liberals and/or minorities but certainly, not all) is absurd. White Seperatism seperates the races so why would one come under the conclusion that one race is superior to another simply because they don't co-exist with one another? Since the races are seperated, there would be no need for one race to prove the "superiority" over the other races since it won't be even co-existing with the other race(s) in the first place.

Now here are some benefits to White Seperatism:

1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority. Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

Now, I can go on further, but I am running out of characters so I will summarize this with a conclusion.

Conclusion:

White Seperatism is without doubt one of best and underrated political ideologies of all time. People just discredit these political ideologies because they perhaps see a reference to Hitler or facism or something else. When in truth, and with more exploration, there is a lot of difference. White Seperatism is beneficial to both the majority population and the minority population. Such places where White Seperatism would work very effectively would be the United States of America, South Africa, and perhaps some other countries that have had and/or still have race problems and are looking for an excellent solution. Whenever people aren't forced to co-exist and live togethor in solves problems such as affirmative action and hate crime. Policies such as forced integration and/or forced busing only cause these problems to be worse as they force someone who may not want to live with another person for whatever reason they wish (such as race) is unconstitutional because it limits ones freedoms. White Seperatism is the solution to a society with heavy racial problems and with an even or near even racial population such as African Americans are at 50% and European Americans are at 50%.

Thank you.
Lasagna
Posts: 2,440
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8/5/2011 12:07:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
One post and off to an extreme and provocative start? Smells like a troll to me. No foreplay? No kiss? I know when I'm being used...
Rob
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 12:10:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 12:07:01 AM, Lasagna wrote:
One post and off to an extreme and provocative start? Smells like a troll to me. No foreplay? No kiss? I know when I'm being used...

Well I looked at this website for a while, and usually the "trolls" that I identify as being trolls usually only make short little sentences about a controversial issue. If I was a troll, why would I go so far in depth with my arguments?
Wnope
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8/5/2011 12:39:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:

1. White Seperatism is just another word for White Supremacism.

White Seperatism isn't another term to coin White Supremacism. While it is true that in the past there have been famous white supremacists like Adolf Hitler that wanted white seperatism, he tried to achieve that by advocating White Supremacism, thus showing his real motive as a white supremacist and not a white seperatist. Also, if you look back at history, there weren't nearly as many white seperatists that wanted White Supremacism. You can even see some present day examples of white seperatists who don't preach white supremacism. Some of them are Nick Griffin and David Duke.

*record disc squeals to a halt"

David Duke founded the KKK. I'm pretty sure they were a "supremacist" organization.

2. White Seperatism is a harmful social and/or political ideology towards minorities or anyone that isn't considered white.

Here I will clearly give you the definition of White Seperatism from a number of reputable sources so that there is minimal confusion:

A. Wikipedia: White separatism is a separatist political movement that seeks separate economic and cultural development for white people.

B. Thefreedictionary: One who advocates the creation of a society in which whites live separately from other races or from which nonwhite races are excluded.

C. http://dictionary.reference.com...: A social system in which white people live separately from members of other races.

As you can see in those above definitions there is no mention of hostility towards minorites. So where do these ideas generate from? Perhaps this is a common misconception among liberals or minorites? I can see this since they inherently disagree with the morality of a position that it is automatically considered a flawed social and/or political ideology from their point of view. I can see why they take this position. It is because liberals and/or a lot of minorites are intolerant from the start and are unwilling to compromise or take another person's perspective on a subject.

You are basically suggesting a legalized form of de facto racism that undoes our gains since segregation.

White flight has done enough work to "separate" races. Unless you call White flight the same as 'White seperatism" then the only way that White Seperatism "reinforces" anything is by legalizing "whites only" neighborhoods.

When someone says they are a "democrat" they want to introduce democratically-oriented laws.

When you say you are a white seperatist, wouldn't you want seperatist-oriented legislation? What could that legislation possibly do other then ENFORCE racial seperation.

Also, this geographic segregation would lead to redistricting and minimizing minorities ability to influence the government. You "separate" minorities from larger districts and thus strip them of all political influence in those districts.

You can't seperate segregation and geographic exclusion of minorities. Any legal remedy that follows "white seperatism" is enforcing segregation by housing neighborhood or in political power. Combine that with the fact that most localities are supported by estate taxes and other recent businesses, and you have a perfect formula to disenfranchise poor minority areas.

If anything, a white seperatist social and/or political ideology is postitive (helpful) towards minorites. For one reason being that it causes all of the people that the minorites identify as being "racist", excluded from their life. Therefore, since the racist person(s) are removed from their daily life, it gives them greater happiness because they then don't have to take the burden of having to tolerate their racism and/or racist remarks. (Which is legal by the way, considering freedom of speech.)

This is the benefit? Here's a good alternative: Keep your damn racist sentiments to yourself. Tell your friends how much you hate blacks, but that doesn't mean going up and yelling at black people to go back to Africa.

3. White Seperatism is a violent ideology.

How would White Seperatism be a violent ideology? If anything, White Seperatism is a peaceful ideology because it keeps the races apart from any disagreement that could possibly (and will) happen. It should also be noted that one can't use the political notion; "racial segregation" to counter this claim that I made since racial seperatism and racial segregation are different.

There is no difference between legislatively-oriented white seperatism and segregation.

The only way to claim otherwise is to say you do not want your own political ideology to be part of our government's process.

4. White Seperatism leads to White Supremacism. Since the races are seperated, there would be no need for one race to prove the "superiority" over the other races since it won't be even co-existing with the other race(s) in the first place.

If you are familiar with history, you'd find that the best way to shore up racial division and misinterpretation is to separate white children from all experience to other minority children. It allows for the type of monstrous racism you find when Jews were put in ghettos away from German eyes.
Now here are some benefits to White Seperatism:

1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

Unless the people who commit hate crimes go to an all-minority neighbrohood.

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

You're suggesting seperate schools and businesses, but not segregation?

3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority. Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

CONCLUSION: Someone serious about their ideology would want their government to create some legal remedy which addresses their ideological problems.

At the very least, you would want community enforcement of your ideals (de facto segregation).

Someone just looking to start a flame war comes here just to say "I'm for white flight" is a troll. You seem to be the latter.
thett3
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8/5/2011 12:48:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 12:10:00 AM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 12:07:01 AM, Lasagna wrote:
One post and off to an extreme and provocative start? Smells like a troll to me. No foreplay? No kiss? I know when I'm being used...

Well I looked at this website for a while, and usually the "trolls" that I identify as being trolls usually only make short little sentences about a controversial issue. If I was a troll, why would I go so far in depth with my arguments?

Don't mind people like Lasagna, Joseph. They'll assume that just because you believe that the races are different you must believe one to be better, which often is simply not the case.
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Wnope
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8/5/2011 12:53:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 12:48:51 AM, thett3 wrote:
At 8/5/2011 12:10:00 AM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 12:07:01 AM, Lasagna wrote:
One post and off to an extreme and provocative start? Smells like a troll to me. No foreplay? No kiss? I know when I'm being used...

Well I looked at this website for a while, and usually the "trolls" that I identify as being trolls usually only make short little sentences about a controversial issue. If I was a troll, why would I go so far in depth with my arguments?

Don't mind people like Lasagna, Joseph. They'll assume that just because you believe that the races are different you must believe one to be better, which often is simply not the case.

No, I just assume you don't want to have to interact with minorities.
Andromeda_Z
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8/5/2011 2:11:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
1. White Seperatism is just another word for White Supremacism.

White Seperatism isn't another term to coin White Supremacism. While it is true that in the past there have been famous white supremacists like Adolf Hitler that wanted white seperatism, he tried to achieve that by advocating White Supremacism, thus showing his real motive as a white supremacist and not a white seperatist. Also, if you look back at history, there weren't nearly as many white seperatists that wanted White Supremacism. You can even see some present day examples of white seperatists who don't preach white supremacism. Some of them are Nick Griffin and David Duke.

Get your facts straight, David Duke was in the Ku Klux Klan. The Ku Klux Klan was definitely supremacist.

2. White Seperatism is a harmful social and/or political ideology towards minorities or anyone that isn't considered white.

Here I will clearly give you the definition of White Seperatism from a number of reputable sources so that there is minimal confusion:

A. Wikipedia: White separatism is a separatist political movement that seeks separate economic and cultural development for white people.

B. Thefreedictionary: One who advocates the creation of a society in which whites live separately from other races or from which nonwhite races are excluded.

C. http://dictionary.reference.com...: A social system in which white people live separately from members of other races.

As you can see in those above definitions there is no mention of hostility towards minorites.

It's implied. It is hostile to tell people to gtfo because they have the wrong skin color, which would seem to be what this ideology advocates.
It is because liberals and/or a lot of minorities are intolerant from the start and are unwilling to compromise or take another person's perspective on a subject.

If you were more tolerant than the people you are calling intolerant, wouldn't you tolerate the inclusion of them in your society?

If anything, a white separatist social and/or political ideology is positive (helpful) towards minorities. For one reason being that it causes all of the people that the minorities identify as being "racist", excluded from their life. Therefore, since the racist person(s) are removed from their daily life, it gives them greater happiness because they then don't have to take the burden of having to tolerate their racism and/or racist remarks. (Which is legal by the way, considering freedom of speech.)

Or we could just stop being racist. Excluding minorities is going to increase the prevalence of people thinking they are different, and people tend to fear others who they perceive as different. This fear tends to manifest itself as hate. That's racism. Your proposal would increase racism, not the other way around.
How would White Seperatism be a violent ideology? If anything, White Seperatism is a peaceful ideology because it keeps the races apart from any disagreement that could possibly (and will) happen.

If you wanted to avoid disagreement, you wouldn't be on debate.org posting this. If you want peace, great, but don't start stuff.
It should also be noted that one can't use the political notion; "racial segregation" to counter this claim that I made since racial seperatism and racial segregation are different.

Look up the definitions of "separatism" and "segregation" and get back to me on that.
Since the races are separated, there would be no need for one race to prove the "superiority" over the other races since it won't be even co-existing with the other race(s) in the first place.

Having no need for something doesn't mean that there will be no occurrence of something. It happens right now with the different countries; we zero in on a characteristic of another country, declare it to be a problem, and send out the military. The other country isn't inferior, but it is separate and different, so it can easily be perceived as inferior. There's clearly no need for this, but it happens anyway.
1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

Hate crime against people of other races, maybe. But those hateful people will still be hateful people, they'll just go find other targets. Hate crimes will still exist.

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

There's no reason to have affirmative action now, so this doesn't further your case.

3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

No, they won't. Why should people not have the right to live where they want to based on their skin tone? That's a blatant restriction of civil rights.
A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

So, now you want to separate racists? That's not even the same topic.
B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority.

If we got rid of affirmative action policies, they could do that now. There's no need to separate people based on that.
Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

That's not a sentence.
Policies such as forced integration and/or forced busing only cause these problems to be worse as they force someone who may not want to live with another person for whatever reason they wish (such as race) is unconstitutional because it limits ones freedoms.

I don't disagree with that, but I also disagree with forcibly separating people based on race. That limits freedoms, as well. People should be free to live wherever they can afford to purchase a house or apartment.
Ore_Ele
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8/5/2011 10:10:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Since this is Debate.org, as you've mentioned, maybe doing some formal debates with members would be ideal. I'm sure you'll find plenty of people that would be willing to debate one on one.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/5/2011 10:37:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Personally I don't give a sh*t whether or not you want to be separate on account of your race. If that's the way you prefer to live your life, you're certainly entitled to both the belief and being separate. Just don't attempt to force other people of your race to join your deluded world.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 11:08:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This message pertains to Wnope:

1st: David Duke didn't found the KKK. David Duke was born July 1, 1950. The KKK was founded in 1865. That is almost 100 years earlier. Now, regardless if the KKK is/was a white supremacist organization doesn't mean that David Duke was a white supremacist or not. I also believe at one point that David Duke had a fondness and support for Clarence Thomas. If David Duke was a White Supremacist, why would he support Clarence Thomas? This would make no practical sense.

2nd: The question pertaining to the issue of "white flight". Now, I don't think that "white flight" did enough to seperate the races, and even if it did, it wasn't a good method, because blacks could still technically and lawfully live in co-existence with the whites wherever the "white flight" went.

3rd: Nowhere in that post did I say anything about a Democrat.

4th: You keep on referring to segregation, racial seperation and racial segregation are different.

5th: (I shouldn't respond to an argument that uses foul language, but I shall break that code for now.) I don't believe that I said anywhere in that post that I hated blacks.

6th: Actually, there is a very clear difference between white seperatism and segregation. Segregation refers to seperate facilities between whites and minorities but the minorities still live in the same state as the whites do. Seperatism is seperating all the races completely.

7th: Well yes, perhaps you are right, but then again if you were to follow a practice like that, it wouldn't be white seperatism it would be white supremacism, because that it was happened with the Third Reich.

8th: Why would they go to an all minority neighborhood? There would be no reason for them to go commit hate crimes since they don't have to co-exist with them in the first place. I do admit though that once in a while there might be a deranged person out there, but there will be such things as a border fence up or something of that nature.

9th: Read above where I mentioned the difference between seperatism and segregation.

10th: I will perhaps address this in another thread on how to implicate such as policy. This thread was only about the good nature of White Seperatism and the benefits that it has outweighs it's counter benefits whatever that may be.

11th: No, I am not a troll. i don't really know how to convince you wrong, do I have to start a debate with you on the subject perhaps?
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 11:10:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 10:37:19 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Personally I don't give a sh*t whether or not you want to be separate on account of your race. If that's the way you prefer to live your life, you're certainly entitled to both the belief and being separate. Just don't attempt to force other people of your race to join your deluded world.

Of course I wouldn't want to force people who want to live in an integrated society into a segregated society. That would be very wrong indeed. Also, how would a world such as the one that I mentioned a "deluded" world?
Ore_Ele
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8/5/2011 11:18:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
regarding point 6, you are saying the seperatism is segragation buffed up.

regarding point 8, just because people are seperated doesn't mean their dislike for each other is going to go away. We can look at US opinion of muslims after 9/11, even though the muslim population in the US is very small and most people were not around them, many still held very strong feelings about them.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Wnope
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8/5/2011 11:47:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Of course you aren't a Democrat. My point is that to espouse an ideology is to say that you wish for your ideology to be implemented in your society.

Legislatively enforced geographical separation of races is called segregation. Keeping minorities in a different state from whites is called segregation.

You said white flight isn't enough. That means you want some form of legislative enforcement.

For all the reasons I listed, it is irrelevant whether you hate or love black people; geographical segregation has extremely negative effects on minorities politically, economically, and socially.

Do you honestly think there were no hate crimes during segregation? Just seperating races isn't enough to stop people who take their anger out on minorities.

There is no "debate" here, there is just your preference to not interact with minorities. I have several friends like you that say: oh, blacks and whites are totally equal. I have nothing against black people inherently. I just don't want to live in the same society as them. That's just your preference. I happen to enjoy communities with multiple minorities.

And come on, your first post is on white seperatism and your name is Joseph Mengelle. You're telling me you aren't just trying to grab some attention?
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 1:11:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Well hello, and thank you for welcoming me to debate.org. As for your debates, no offense but the first two you merely won because your opponents hardly gave any effective arguments and one opponent even forfeited one round.

As for the third one though, that one isn't even finished yet.
Wnope
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8/5/2011 1:14:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:11:38 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Well hello, and thank you for welcoming me to debate.org. As for your debates, no offense but the first two you merely won because your opponents hardly gave any effective arguments and one opponent even forfeited one round.

As for the third one though, that one isn't even finished yet.

Why is it that you chose a screenname that refers to a famous Nazi?

You could talk about white seperatism using a screen name that would be more reflective of what you call the difference between white seperatism and white supremacism.

So, again, why Mengele? Why a Nazi?
Ore_Ele
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8/5/2011 1:14:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

So that is why there is the influx of WN members.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
OMGJustinBieber
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8/5/2011 1:18:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:14:44 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

So that is why there is the influx of WN members.

Damn. Couldn't he have just joined over there and started some threads?

"Racism is bad" is literally taken for granted by any educated person.
Ore_Ele
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8/5/2011 1:20:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:18:46 PM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:14:44 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

So that is why there is the influx of WN members.

Damn. Couldn't he have just joined over there and started some threads?

"Racism is bad" is literally taken for granted by any educated person.

lol, he did and invited them to come to DDO to debate.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 1:31:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:14:27 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:11:38 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Well hello, and thank you for welcoming me to debate.org. As for your debates, no offense but the first two you merely won because your opponents hardly gave any effective arguments and one opponent even forfeited one round.

As for the third one though, that one isn't even finished yet.

Why is it that you chose a screenname that refers to a famous Nazi?
Well I'm fascinated with how Joseph Mengele was able to evade being caught by authorities after WWII. I like researching "famous fugivitives" and examining how they escaped. And no, I am not talking about Harrison Ford whenever I mention the term "fugitive".

You could talk about white seperatism using a screen name that would be more reflective of what you call the difference between white seperatism and white supremacism.
Well, this post was only to show that the White Seperatist political and/or social ideology could be effectively implemented in today's modern world. For all you know, I don't ONLY have to be a white seperatist whenever it comes to my racial views. This post was only meant to clearly show what I have already said above.

So, again, why Mengele? Why a Nazi?
Look above.
000ike
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8/5/2011 1:31:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I find this whole thing comical. Time and time again, debate after debate, centuries of cross examination and we arrive at the same conclusion..' Racism is bad '. What makes people like this guy believe they have some new insightful view that's going to change all our minds is hysterical. He's just going to get pounded by any decent debater.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 1:36:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:31:50 PM, 000ike wrote:
I find this whole thing comical. Time and time again, debate after debate, centuries of cross examination and we arrive at the same conclusion..' Racism is bad '. What makes people like this guy believe they have some new insightful view that's going to change all our minds is hysterical. He's just going to get pounded by any decent debater.

Well, I am sorry that you do find this comical, but I am dead serious. Sorry if I came across with the message as being comical, as that wasn't my intent.

Actually, I never claimed that I would change all your minds on the subject. I merely presented you with evidence to communicate with you how powerful the white seperatist position is.
Tim_Spin
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8/5/2011 1:38:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:

Now here are some benefits to White Seperatism:

1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

Race related hate crimes are but a fraction of overall hate crimes. Consider hate crimes related to religion, gender, sexual orientation, or nationality.

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

There is already no need for affirmative action. Unrestricted market forces already make it uneconomical to discriminate based on anything other than productivity.

3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

You forget sexists, homophobes, nationalists, and other ha groups that don't specifically look at race. Also, a much easier way to stop putting racists in jail would just be to stop putting them in jail, instead uphold free speech and allow people to have ignorant or bigoted opinions so long as they do not harm others.

B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority. Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

In a world of only "minorities", affirmative action for specific races would still be detrimental to society just as affirmative action is detrimental in our society. Regardless of whether it's white people being discriminated against in favor of blacks or black people being discriminated against in favor of hispanics, the detrimental effect is the same.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
Joseph_Mengele
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8/5/2011 1:46:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:38:02 PM, Tim_Spin wrote:
At 8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:

Now here are some benefits to White Seperatism:

1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

Race related hate crimes are but a fraction of overall hate crimes. Consider hate crimes related to religion, gender, sexual orientation, or nationality.
Clearly you don't understand what I am saying. Ok, we can follow the conclusion that you said and simply say that race related hate crimes will be at an all time minimum.

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

There is already no need for affirmative action. Unrestricted market forces already make it uneconomical to discriminate based on anything other than productivity.
Tell that to the Liberals and/or Democrats and sometimes even the Republicans (such as Michael Steele) that keep on trying to enforce affirmative action.

3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

You forget sexists, homophobes, nationalists, and other ha groups that don't specifically look at race. Also, a much easier way to stop putting racists in jail would just be to stop putting them in jail, instead uphold free speech and allow people to have ignorant or bigoted opinions so long as they do not harm others.
Well ok, I could go with that, but here is the problem, that not a lot of people have respect for the first amendment anymore. Also, police officers can often use the "disturbing the peace" to uphold their arrest.

B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority. Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

In a world of only "minorities", affirmative action for specific races would still be detrimental to society just as affirmative action is detrimental in our society. Regardless of whether it's white people being discriminated against in favor of blacks or black people being discriminated against in favor of hispanics, the detrimental effect is the same.
Well, in that case I would agree with you.
mattrodstrom
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8/5/2011 1:49:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:31:50 PM, 000ike wrote:
I find this whole thing comical. Time and time again, debate after debate, centuries of cross examination and we arrive at the same conclusion..' Racism is bad '. What makes people like this guy believe they have some new insightful view that's going to change all our minds is hysterical. He's just going to get pounded by any decent debater.

anyone who is trying to explain why they think what they do, and is genuinely inviting open discussion on the subject ought not be held at arms length as some kind of leper.. but their efforts at genuine, honest, open discussion should be welcomed with the same... no matter what their position happens to be.

If you think he's wrong and would care to say so.. question his assumptions or address his points...
something I'll look to do shortly
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Tim_Spin
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8/5/2011 1:56:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:46:35 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:38:02 PM, Tim_Spin wrote:
At 8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:

Now here are some benefits to White Seperatism:

1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

Race related hate crimes are but a fraction of overall hate crimes. Consider hate crimes related to religion, gender, sexual orientation, or nationality.
Clearly you don't understand what I am saying. Ok, we can follow the conclusion that you said and simply say that race related hate crimes will be at an all time minimum.

But then the entire point of separatism is negated in that overall hate crimes would barely be affected. Also, who cares if a Jewish guy was attacked because he is Jewish. Shouldn't the law focus more on the actual damage than the motivations for it?

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

There is already no need for affirmative action. Unrestricted market forces already make it uneconomical to discriminate based on anything other than productivity.
Tell that to the Liberals and/or Democrats and sometimes even the Republicans (such as Michael Steele) that keep on trying to enforce affirmative action.

Democrats and Republicans are mostly idiots. Get the government out of economics and you'll see less discrimination in that it is costly for the discriminator.

3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

You forget sexists, homophobes, nationalists, and other ha groups that don't specifically look at race. Also, a much easier way to stop putting racists in jail would just be to stop putting them in jail, instead uphold free speech and allow people to have ignorant or bigoted opinions so long as they do not harm others.
Well ok, I could go with that, but here is the problem, that not a lot of people have respect for the first amendment anymore. Also, police officers can often use the "disturbing the peace" to uphold their arrest.

So because people can't read the First Ammendment, we separate races? How about just enforce the already pre-existing law?

B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority. Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

In a world of only "minorities", affirmative action for specific races would still be detrimental to society just as affirmative action is detrimental in our society. Regardless of whether it's white people being discriminated against in favor of blacks or black people being discriminated against in favor of hispanics, the detrimental effect is the same.
Well, in that case I would agree with you.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
Ore_Ele
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8/5/2011 1:56:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:38:02 PM, Tim_Spin wrote:
At 8/4/2011 11:40:50 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:

Now here are some benefits to White Seperatism:

1. Since the races are seperated, hate crime will be at an all time minimum.

Race related hate crimes are but a fraction of overall hate crimes. Consider hate crimes related to religion, gender, sexual orientation, or nationality.

2. There will be never be any need for Affirmative Action, and the majority would then no longer be discriminated against in reference to getting jobs or applying for college.

There is already no need for affirmative action. Unrestricted market forces already make it uneconomical to discriminate based on anything other than productivity.

That's actually not true in some cases. If your customer base discriminates against something, it is economically in your interest to discriminate against that same thing. We had a recent (about a year ago) incident where a resturant owner kicked several off-duty police officers out of his resturant because he won't serve "pigs."

Entry level economics would say that by limiting his customer base, he is limiting his potential income and so financially harming himself. However, his business went up. Why? Because entry level economics doesn't explain the real world very well, and human psycology will tell us that customer that also don't like police will then be attracted to his business (which is what happened).

If a bunch of people don't like blacks, if you have black employees, that can hurt your customer base and cost you money. In such cases it is more profitable to discriminate as the community does.

This is actually commonly seen with asian styled resturants. Customers want to be served chinese food from a chinese person, so the shops make sure all their waiters are chinese (while the cooks may be anything). That is discrimination that helps a business.

Also, AA does not promote discimination, it is specifically against it. By stating that race, sex, sexual preference, etc cannot be used in the hiring process. Quotas and what nots are unconstitutional and have been struck down by the courts.


3. The advocates for Civil Rights will be happy. Here are some reasons why:

A: There won't be any need to put any racists in jail or publically denounce people because of "controversal comments" because all the people that are deemed "racist" will be seperated from the other people.

You forget sexists, homophobes, nationalists, and other ha groups that don't specifically look at race. Also, a much easier way to stop putting racists in jail would just be to stop putting them in jail, instead uphold free speech and allow people to have ignorant or bigoted opinions so long as they do not harm others.

B: They can further advance their race without harming the majority. Through such programs or policies known as political correctness or affirmative action as previously mentioned.

In a world of only "minorities", affirmative action for specific races would still be detrimental to society just as affirmative action is detrimental in our society. Regardless of whether it's white people being discriminated against in favor of blacks or black people being discriminated against in favor of hispanics, the detrimental effect is the same.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
mattrodstrom
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8/5/2011 2:07:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:31:36 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:14:27 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:11:38 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Well hello, and thank you for welcoming me to debate.org. As for your debates, no offense but the first two you merely won because your opponents hardly gave any effective arguments and one opponent even forfeited one round.

As for the third one though, that one isn't even finished yet.

Why is it that you chose a screenname that refers to a famous Nazi?
Well I'm fascinated with how Joseph Mengele was able to evade being caught by authorities after WWII.

umm... I didn't notice the name game going on till now..

this, unlike your first post inviting discussion, is something to be laughed at and mocked ;)

I suppose in your explanation as to why you chose the name you just happened to forget mentioning that you have a thing for sicko nazis... clearly.

like an army-type nerdy kid just with a sick twist

I like researching "famous fugivitives" and examining how they escaped. And no, I am not talking about Harrison Ford whenever I mention the term "fugitive".

I'm sure there are better ones... why favor the sicko nazi??

you're seriously suggesting it has Nothing to do with your also favoring White Separatism (which was your first post)??

your name gives more testimony to the level of your ridiculousness than did your post... and you deserve some belittling for it.

I'll try to offer a sincere response to your post within the next day.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
VocMusTcrMaloy
Posts: 189
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8/5/2011 2:12:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/5/2011 1:11:38 PM, Joseph_Mengele wrote:
At 8/5/2011 1:03:18 PM, VocMusTcrMaloy wrote:
@Joseph_Mengele: Welcome to debate.org (aka "ddo"). I see you as fresh meat. To clarify my statement see the following debates, and look at the scores:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

Well hello, and thank you for welcoming me to debate.org. As for your debates, no offense but the first two you merely won because your opponents hardly gave any effective arguments and one opponent even forfeited one round.

I know right! That was a real let down! I'm really bored with my racism debates here.


As for the third one though, that one isn't even finished yet.

He's boring me too. I'm about to shove the apple in his mouth and put him on the grill in the fourth round. By the fifth round, he should make a tasty morsel for hungry voters.

I'm going to have to debate other topics because this topic is too easy to refute.