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Is Obama Smart?

DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/9/2011 7:45:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In my online pursuits, I stumbled across a new (just written today) editorial in the Wall Street Journal. The link is here: http://online.wsj.com...

What do you think? I personally agree wholeheartedly with the article. While before his presidency I was more mild with Obama (and supported him merely because I felt he was better suited than McCain), I now am starting to come to the conclusion that Obama has, as many leaders do, fallen to hubris. This credit downgrade has, at least in my opinion (and hopefully in my opinion as well), put the proverbial final nails in the coffin of his presidency.

Besides that, I ask that you read the editorial (which summarizes my stance fairly well) if you haven't already, and please share your thoughts.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
BennyW
Posts: 698
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8/9/2011 8:00:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Anyone who is over the age of 12 and cannot pronounce corpsman is an idiot.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
BennyW
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8/9/2011 8:01:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
He certainly has a large ego.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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8/9/2011 9:48:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 8:01:06 PM, BennyW wrote:
He certainly has a large ego.

I agree. Obama apparently believes that a mastery over the syntax and diction of the English language is sufficient enough for him to bolster his pride in himself.

Of course, by this reasoning, any eloquent man deserves the highest office, no matter his experience, intuition, knowledge, or assets.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
DetectableNinja
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8/9/2011 10:14:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 9:48:04 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 8/9/2011 8:01:06 PM, BennyW wrote:
He certainly has a large ego.

I agree. Obama apparently believes that a mastery over the syntax and diction of the English language is sufficient enough for him to bolster his pride in himself.

Of course, by this reasoning, any eloquent man deserves the highest office, no matter his experience, intuition, knowledge, or assets.

Precisely, Man-is-Good. Eloquence=/=Competence. I think that Obama's more of a windbag than anything else. A very arrogant and hubris-y one at that.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/11/2011 1:59:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Obama is smart. Evidence is that his IQ is in the mid-120s, like Bush, Kerry, and many other political figures. The problem with Obama is that he is consumed by ideology. He is certain that socialist-type solutions must work, even when the evidence is overwhelming that they don't. Because Obama has no experience or expertise in anything other than campaigning --that's what a community organizer does for a living-- he has no alternative worldview to turn to. They are not available to him.

Clinton is a good contrast. Clinton was smart too, but he wasn't fixated on ideology. I think that flexibility came in part from his experience as governor. Clinton worked successfully with Gingrich and a Republican Congress to come up with some effective solutions. A high priest is okay as president, so long he is willing to bend to reality. Obama is not able to do that.
BennyW
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8/11/2011 3:29:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 1:59:23 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Obama is smart. Evidence is that his IQ is in the mid-120s, like Bush, Kerry, and many other political figures. The problem with Obama is that he is consumed by ideology. He is certain that socialist-type solutions must work, even when the evidence is overwhelming that they don't. Because Obama has no experience or expertise in anything other than campaigning --that's what a community organizer does for a living-- he has no alternative worldview to turn to. They are not available to him.

Clinton is a good contrast. Clinton was smart too, but he wasn't fixated on ideology. I think that flexibility came in part from his experience as governor. Clinton worked successfully with Gingrich and a Republican Congress to come up with some effective solutions. A high priest is okay as president, so long he is willing to bend to reality. Obama is not able to do that.

How do you know their IQs? There have been speculations but I don't think anyone knows for sure. Besides I do think their are major flaws in the way we test for IQ anyway as it is tailored toward only one type of intelligence.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2011 3:37:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
^^^
For once I agree with RoyLatham.

Obama is smart and he's slick. People always think that politicians who do things wrong are dumb. NO, they're NOT dumb, they're screwing you over because they're clever! Get real.

This guy is an Ivy League graduate with a Law Degree and was even a University Professor. He's also a masterful linguist and can manipulate peoples consciousness with his mind manipulation, talismanic words.

And people have the nerve to call him stupid or inexperienced? Experience doesn't mean jack sh!t. Especially when he spent two years as a Senator. Its absolutely asinine to blame Obamas faults on inexperience. The problem is that he's clever and devious.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/11/2011 3:47:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wow, I am not surprised that all of you, who sit comfortably behind your computers find it so easy to criticize the president. If you even understood or came even close to comprehending the amount of pressure that job creates on one human being, you may still have your views, but you wouldn't easily discredit the man. He may be under as much pressure as the presidents who were in office during war, and the great depression.

Is he a great president? Right now, no. But that could change in the next two years.

Furthermore, the president is not the all powerful director of this country. Congress has a massive if not greater hand in many of America's woes. They unfortunately, being a body of many people do not often receive the bulk of the blame they deserve.

It was easy to accuse Bush unfairly, and now the same is happening to Obama. I'll leave you all with a cliche quote that you have unfortunately all forgotten to observe. Put yourself in someone's shoes for once.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/11/2011 4:02:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 3:47:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
Wow, I am not surprised that all of you, who sit comfortably behind your computers find it so easy to criticize the president. If you even understood or came even close to comprehending the amount of pressure that job creates on one human being, you may still have your views, but you wouldn't easily discredit the man. He may be under as much pressure as the presidents who were in office during war, and the great depression.

Is he a great president? Right now, no. But that could change in the next two years.

Furthermore, the president is not the all powerful director of this country. Congress has a massive if not greater hand in many of America's woes. They unfortunately, being a body of many people do not often receive the bulk of the blame they deserve.

It was easy to accuse Bush unfairly, and now the same is happening to Obama. I'll leave you all with a cliche quote that you have unfortunately all forgotten to observe. Put yourself in someone's shoes for once.

Even if what you say is true (which it's not, Obama is slick he's not nervous at all), that is no excuse for auto-signing and extending the global fascist dictatorship of monstrosity known as the PATRIOT ACT.

If you have an argument defending Obama and his decision to extend the PATRIOT ACT, please, let's hear it!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/11/2011 4:11:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 3:47:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
Wow, I am not surprised that all of you, who sit comfortably behind your computers find it so easy to criticize the president. If you even understood or came even close to comprehending the amount of pressure that job creates on one human being, you may still have your views, but you wouldn't easily discredit the man. He may be under as much pressure as the presidents who were in office during war, and the great depression.

Is he a great president? Right now, no. But that could change in the next two years.

Furthermore, the president is not the all powerful director of this country. Congress has a massive if not greater hand in many of America's woes. They unfortunately, being a body of many people do not often receive the bulk of the blame they deserve.

It was easy to accuse Bush unfairly, and now the same is happening to Obama. I'll leave you all with a cliche quote that you have unfortunately all forgotten to observe. Put yourself in someone's shoes for once.

I see where you're coming from here, and I do know that the presidency is a very tough job, but I think that what you may be missing is that as American citizens, it's kind of our duty to criticize our government. I don't think Obama is a bad person, but I really feel like that, at this juncture, he's too arrogant/fixated on an almost too ambitious ideology to be an effective president.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/11/2011 4:20:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 4:02:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/11/2011 3:47:22 PM, 000ike wrote:
Wow, I am not surprised that all of you, who sit comfortably behind your computers find it so easy to criticize the president. If you even understood or came even close to comprehending the amount of pressure that job creates on one human being, you may still have your views, but you wouldn't easily discredit the man. He may be under as much pressure as the presidents who were in office during war, and the great depression.

Is he a great president? Right now, no. But that could change in the next two years.

Furthermore, the president is not the all powerful director of this country. Congress has a massive if not greater hand in many of America's woes. They unfortunately, being a body of many people do not often receive the bulk of the blame they deserve.

It was easy to accuse Bush unfairly, and now the same is happening to Obama. I'll leave you all with a cliche quote that you have unfortunately all forgotten to observe. Put yourself in someone's shoes for once.

Even if what you say is true (which it's not, Obama is slick he's not nervous at all), that is no excuse for auto-signing and extending the global fascist dictatorship of monstrosity known as the PATRIOT ACT.

If you have an argument defending Obama and his decision to extend the PATRIOT ACT, please, let's hear it!

Nope, I will not defend the extension of the Patriot Act, he should not have done that. My point is not that he hasn't made mistakes or he's a great president. My point is that you all need to ease up and hold back on the accusations, because I don't think you quite understand what it means to be president of America. All this talk of Obama being sneaky, Obama being stupid, shows a profound ignorance. 300 million people telling one man 300 million things. No one has mercy for the guy in charge because they think he's enjoying himself and deliberately destroying the country. The fact is, he's suffering. They all suffer.

And one more point, no president is ever "popular" until well after his presidency, where people are allowed the insight of hindsight. Be a reasonable person and discuss his issues without discrediting him or insulting him.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
RoyLatham
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8/11/2011 4:55:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 3:29:46 PM, BennyW wrote:
How do you know their IQs? There have been speculations but I don't think anyone knows for sure. Besides I do think their are major flaws in the way we test for IQ anyway as it is tailored toward only one type of intelligence.

Bush and Kerry both took IQ tests with the results published. Bush scorer a point or two higher than Kerry, at about 124. Obama has concealed all his test scores. However, Obama did not qualify as a National Merit Scholarship semi-finalist, and the cut off for that is an IQ test score of 129. It's possible that Obama is below 120, but he graduated from law school, so I think that's unlikely. That Obama keeps the score secret is a good sign it isn't anything special.

I agree that the skills required for being president are not well-measured by IQ alone, but a good IQ score certainly qualifies a person as "smart." One theory is that there is a non-IQ-measured ability to correctly assess complex situations, and that presidents tend to be very good at that.

The most intelligent politician of modern times was probably John Sununu, Sr., tested to have an IQ of 180. He was the elder Bush's Chief of Staff. He was ot very successful as a politician. He was much smarter than anyone in Congress, and was fond of letting them know it.
RoyLatham
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8/11/2011 5:09:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 4:20:35 PM, 000ike wrote:
My point is not that he hasn't made mistakes or he's a great president. My point is that you all need to ease up and hold back on the accusations, because I don't think you quite understand what it means to be president of America. All this talk of Obama being sneaky, Obama being stupid, shows a profound ignorance. 300 million people telling one man 300 million things. No one has mercy for the guy in charge because they think he's enjoying himself and deliberately destroying the country. The fact is, he's suffering. They all suffer.

Obama is not sneaky and not stupid. He is a sincere and completely consistent leftist ideologue. Leftist ideologues have a skill set limited to inspirational slogans and ideologically prescribed policies. Leftists are uniformly astounded when that doesn't work, and invariably conclude he just wasn't far enough left or inspirational enough.

We had the same problem with Carter. After Nixon failed, and was followed by Ford and Carter, with Carter a deadful failure, there was a notion floated by the Left that the job of president was too big and too complex to be handled by one person. The solutions included switching to a "troika" form of government in order to solve the seemingly unsolvable problem. Reagan ended that talk.
Double_R
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8/11/2011 8:15:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I actually (almost) completely agree with Roy. People always twist a person's decision to imply the worst intentions they can imagine. Especially in politics.

At 8/11/2011 4:02:18 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Even if what you say is true (which it's not, Obama is slick he's not nervous at all), that is no excuse for auto-signing and extending the global fascist dictatorship of monstrosity known as the PATRIOT ACT.

If you have an argument defending Obama and his decision to extend the PATRIOT ACT, please, let's hear it!

This is a perfect example of this. The Patriot act is about the government's means of obtaining valuable information to protect us. In order to make an informed decision on the necessity of this law one would need to have access to top secret information about our national security. Why would anyone on Debate.org have and be willing to share information needed to determine the real reasons this law was extended?