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Need Some Proof Of Liberal Intolerance

jat93
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8/14/2011 11:42:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm writing an essay about liberal intolerance and some facts to prove my point.
I need:
- Proof that modern American liberals automatically discount anyone who dares question the validity of man-made global warming and villainizes them as wanting to destroy the environment
- Same but with affirmative action and automatic accusations of being racist
- Proof of liberal bias against conservative speakers on college campuses
- Proof of liberal totalitarian-like regulation of the media (or at least how they want to regulate it, essentially how they destroy the right to free speech by wanting to limit what you can see, hear, or say).
mongeese
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8/14/2011 11:48:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There was a clip on Stossel where the liberal crowd shouted down a black guest speaker for explaining why affirmative action was abolished. I forget the episode, though.
RoyLatham
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8/14/2011 2:01:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 11:42:15 AM, jat93 wrote:
I'm writing an essay about liberal intolerance and some facts to prove my point.
I need:
- Proof that modern American liberals automatically discount anyone who dares question the validity of man-made global warming and villainizes them as wanting to destroy the environment

There is book "Deniers" http://www.amazon.com... that details many cases of global warming skeptics being fired from government jobs and otherwise punished for their dissent. One example: http://www.goldtalk.com...

- Same but with affirmative action and automatic accusations of being racist

Google "Ward Connerly shouted down" You'll get plenty of examples of leftists opposed to free speech on affirmative action.

- Proof of liberal bias against conservative speakers on college campuses
Google "Anne Coulter shouted down" She's been attacked by pie throwers and now needs a body guard on some campuses.

Here is summary with a number of examples of conservatives denied free speech http://www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org...

- Proof of liberal totalitarian-like regulation of the media (or at least how they want to regulate it, essentially how they destroy the right to free speech by wanting to limit what you can see, hear, or say).

http://www.infowars.com...
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/14/2011 4:31:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am not permitted to post on my school's online forum. There's some anecdotal evidence for ya. :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/14/2011 4:31:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
(that school would be Western Washington University)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
darkkermit
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8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
jat93
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8/14/2011 8:11:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.

Because I already established in the essay I'm writing that liberalism is at its core an ideology of intolerance. My friends criticized it for not having enough specific proofs. I explained WHY liberals want to heavily regulate the media but didn't give enough examples of it actually happening.
RoyLatham
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8/14/2011 9:16:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.

The Left is characteristically intolerant. It's part of their doctrine.
Lasagna
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8/14/2011 9:18:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:16:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.

The Left is characteristically intolerant. It's part of their doctrine.

Ideologues are characteristically intolerant of opposing ideologies, so I'd hope so.
Rob
TheAtheistAllegiance
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8/14/2011 9:22:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Looks like Roy and Jat are pulling an epic Charles. Rather than identifying with people individually, just generalize a whole group as intolerant, opposed to free speech, etc - just like Charles did to Libertarians and Capitalists.

Yeah, you guys are some real winners - just like Charles.
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/14/2011 9:46:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Opposition to free speech is plain and simple an ideological issue.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mongoose
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8/14/2011 9:58:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:18:19 PM, Lasagna wrote:
At 8/14/2011 9:16:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.

The Left is characteristically intolerant. It's part of their doctrine.

Ideologues are characteristically intolerant of opposing ideologies, so I'd hope so.

There's a difference between intolerance and disagreement. I'll let Roy take over this one.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
jat93
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8/14/2011 10:12:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:22:04 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Looks like Roy and Jat are pulling an epic Charles. Rather than identifying with people individually, just generalize a whole group as intolerant, opposed to free speech, etc - just like Charles did to Libertarians and Capitalists.

Yeah, you guys are some real winners - just like Charles.

I'm not "pulling an epic Charles" and neither is Roy, because liberalism at its core is an ideology of pure, unadulterated close-mindedness and intolerance. Fact. Liberalism is an ideology, not a group, and you can't make generalizations about an ideology; something is either part of it or not. Of course I'm not saying that every single liberal personally exhibits intolerant behavior, that's just ridiculous.
BennyW
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8/14/2011 10:18:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 11:42:15 AM, jat93 wrote:
I'm writing an essay about liberal intolerance and some facts to prove my point.
I need:
- Proof that modern American liberals automatically discount anyone who dares question the validity of man-made global warming and villainizes them as wanting to destroy the environment
- Same but with affirmative action and automatic accusations of being racist
- Proof of liberal bias against conservative speakers on college campuses
- Proof of liberal totalitarian-like regulation of the media (or at least how they want to regulate it, essentially how they destroy the right to free speech by wanting to limit what you can see, hear, or say).

First point: Look up Al Gore Tirade
Second point: See video
Third point: I know several Youtube channels that have had videos removed simply because they expose Planned Parenthood.
http://liveaction.org...
Also see
http://michellemalkin.com...
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
BennyW
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8/14/2011 10:21:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 10:18:49 PM, BennyW wrote:
At 8/14/2011 11:42:15 AM, jat93 wrote:
I'm writing an essay about liberal intolerance and some facts to prove my point.
I need:
- Proof that modern American liberals automatically discount anyone who dares question the validity of man-made global warming and villainizes them as wanting to destroy the environment
- Same but with affirmative action and automatic accusations of being racist
- Proof of liberal bias against conservative speakers on college campuses
- Proof of liberal totalitarian-like regulation of the media (or at least how they want to regulate it, essentially how they destroy the right to free speech by wanting to limit what you can see, hear, or say).

First point: Look up Al Gore Tirade
Second point: See video
Third point: I know several Youtube channels that have had videos removed simply because they expose Planned Parenthood.
http://liveaction.org...
Also see
http://michellemalkin.com...

Also I forgot the claim by many Obama supporters that if you don't vote for him it must be because you are racist.
You didn't build that-Obama
It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
TheAtheistAllegiance
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8/14/2011 10:28:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 10:12:18 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 8/14/2011 9:22:04 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Looks like Roy and Jat are pulling an epic Charles. Rather than identifying with people individually, just generalize a whole group as intolerant, opposed to free speech, etc - just like Charles did to Libertarians and Capitalists.

Yeah, you guys are some real winners - just like Charles.

I'm not "pulling an epic Charles" and neither is Roy, because Libertarianism at its core is an ideology of pure, unadulterated close-mindedness and intolerance. Fact. Liberalism is an ideology, not a group, and you can't make generalizations about an ideology; something is either part of it or not. Of course I'm not saying that every single liberal personally exhibits intolerant behavior, that's just ridiculous.

Bolded. Yes you are.

Also, if you're speaking about the ideology itself, rather than individual Liberals, then why are you searching for random circumstances in which individuals were acting intolerant?
jat93
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8/14/2011 10:35:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 10:28:19 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 8/14/2011 10:12:18 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 8/14/2011 9:22:04 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Looks like Roy and Jat are pulling an epic Charles. Rather than identifying with people individually, just generalize a whole group as intolerant, opposed to free speech, etc - just like Charles did to Libertarians and Capitalists.

Yeah, you guys are some real winners - just like Charles.

I'm not "pulling an epic Charles" and neither is Roy, because Libertarianism at its core is an ideology of pure, unadulterated close-mindedness and intolerance. Fact. Liberalism is an ideology, not a group, and you can't make generalizations about an ideology; something is either part of it or not. Of course I'm not saying that every single liberal personally exhibits intolerant behavior, that's just ridiculous.

Bolded. Yes you are.

Also, if you're speaking about the ideology itself, rather than individual Liberals, then why are you searching for random circumstances in which individuals were acting intolerant?

K, maybe read my posts firsts. In the essay I'm writing I believe that I've sufficiently proven that the liberal ideology is by definition in tolerant. Unfortunately I'm short of examples of liberal intolerance from history and current events. These are necessary to make that argument although they won't make it alone. Get it now?

Also not really sure what you accomplished by bolding "libertarianism". If you want to make an intelligent point about the nature of libertarianism than please do so. Otherwise you're just pulling a, what was it, epic Charles?
RoyLatham
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8/14/2011 10:36:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:22:04 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Looks like Roy and Jat are pulling an epic Charles. Rather than identifying with people individually, just generalize a whole group as intolerant, opposed to free speech, etc - just like Charles did to Libertarians and Capitalists.

Yeah, you guys are some real winners - just like Charles.

I went through subject in a thread with charleslb. He didn't disagree.

It is perfectly reasonable to make generalization about ideologies if it is a tenet of the ideology. "Republicans believe in free trade." "Communists believe in government ownership of capital." "Libertarians believe in free markets." The generalization is not absolute because an individual can call himself X while not believing in Y, but the generalities are so characteristic as to be useful. Leftists physically attack Tea Partiers; there are many examples. Tea Partiers do not physically attack anyone, there are no contrary examples. The Left wants to shut down Fox News, the Right defends MSNBC's rights. Rush Limbaugh openly defends Howard Stern. The Left openly tries to shut down Conservative talk radio. The Left riots; the Right does not.

The Left is the intellectual progeny of the French Revolution. The Right derives from the American Revolution. This is not new.

Notice I didn't make any assertion about anyone on the site being on the Left or the Right. There is no need to be either one or the other, and I don't care who is what. Nonetheless, bold generalities like "Pro basketball players are tall." are valid, and so are generalizations about ideological beliefs.

If you want to debate, suggest a resolution. I would defend the "Ideological generalities are valid." You want to negate that?
TheAtheistAllegiance
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8/14/2011 10:52:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 10:35:36 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 8/14/2011 10:28:19 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 8/14/2011 10:12:18 PM, jat93 wrote:

I'm not "pulling an epic Charles" and neither is Roy, because Libertarianism at its core is an ideology of pure, unadulterated close-mindedness and intolerance. Fact. Liberalism is an ideology, not a group, and you can't make generalizations about an ideology; something is either part of it or not. Of course I'm not saying that every single liberal personally exhibits intolerant behavior, that's just ridiculous.

Bolded. Yes you are.

Also, if you're speaking about the ideology itself, rather than individual Liberals, then why are you searching for random circumstances in which individuals were acting intolerant?

K, maybe read my posts firsts. In the essay I'm writing I believe that I've sufficiently proven that the liberal ideology is by definition in tolerant. Unfortunately I'm short of examples of liberal intolerance from history and current events. These are necessary to make that argument although they won't make it alone. Get it now?

I said that you were painting a whole group with a broad brush, and then you backed away from the statement that Liberal individuals are intolerant (noted with underlined), but instead shifted toward the statement that the Liberal ideology itself is intolerant (also underlined). And now, you're coming back to it. I know why you initially made the thread; I'm questioning as to what it could possibly prove - I can find plenty of examples of intolerance from any political angle, it means nothing.

Also not really sure what you accomplished by bolding "libertarianism". If you want to make an intelligent point about the nature of libertarianism than please do so. Otherwise you're just pulling a, what was it, epic Charles?

I bolded it to show that I could just change some words around and turn all the rhetoric against you. It was, in fact, because you had not provided anything of substance that I did that. Also, Charles loves to generalize rather than deal with the issues, which is what I'm interested in. We all know what you and Roy are interested in, so apparently it's not me who shares Charles' wonderful qualities.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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8/14/2011 10:58:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 10:36:10 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/14/2011 9:22:04 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Looks like Roy and Jat are pulling an epic Charles. Rather than identifying with people individually, just generalize a whole group as intolerant, opposed to free speech, etc - just like Charles did to Libertarians and Capitalists.

Yeah, you guys are some real winners - just like Charles.

I went through subject in a thread with charleslb. He didn't disagree.

It is perfectly reasonable to make generalization about ideologies if it is a tenet of the ideology. "Republicans believe in free trade." "Communists believe in government ownership of capital." "Libertarians believe in free markets." The generalization is not absolute because an individual can call himself X while not believing in Y, but the generalities are so characteristic as to be useful. Leftists physically attack Tea Partiers; there are many examples. Tea Partiers do not physically attack anyone, there are no contrary examples. The Left wants to shut down Fox News, the Right defends MSNBC's rights. Rush Limbaugh openly defends Howard Stern. The Left openly tries to shut down Conservative talk radio. The Left riots; the Right does not.

I'll provide examples to the contrary in our debate.

The Left is the intellectual progeny of the French Revolution. The Right derives from the American Revolution. This is not new.

Cool story bro.

Notice I didn't make any assertion about anyone on the site being on the Left or the Right. There is no need to be either one or the other, and I don't care who is what. Nonetheless, bold generalities like "Pro basketball players are tall." are valid, and so are generalizations about ideological beliefs.

If you want to debate, suggest a resolution. I would defend the "Ideological generalities are valid." You want to negate that?

Yes. Make it 3 rounds because I'd like to have it done with before school starts.
AHodges
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8/14/2011 11:52:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:46:15 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Opposition to free speech is plain and simple an ideological issue.

I must have missed where anyone said anything about free speech, or opposition to free speech. Are you saying that one side is against it?

As for the OP, it sounds like you just don't want to do your own research. If we did it for you, how would you learn anything? ;-)
RoyLatham
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8/15/2011 12:08:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 10:58:39 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Yes. Make it 3 rounds because I'd like to have it done with before school starts.

The challenge is here http://www.debate.org...

I tried to correct the spelling error "generalizations" in the title, but due to a bug in the DDO site software any change results in the debate being lost in cyberspace.

I made it acceptance plus three rounds of actual debate.
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/15/2011 3:02:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 11:52:35 PM, AHodges wrote:
At 8/14/2011 9:46:15 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Opposition to free speech is plain and simple an ideological issue.

I must have missed where anyone said anything about free speech, or opposition to free speech. Are you saying that one side is against it?

- Proof of liberal totalitarian-like regulation of the media (or at least how they want to regulate it, essentially how they destroy the right to free speech by wanting to limit what you can see, hear, or say).

There was a clip on Stossel where the liberal crowd shouted down a black guest speaker for explaining why affirmative action was abolished.

There is book "Deniers" http://www.amazon.com...... that details many cases of global warming skeptics being fired from government jobs and otherwise punished for their dissent.

Google "Ward Connerly shouted down" You'll get plenty of examples of leftists opposed to free speech on affirmative action.

Google "Anne Coulter shouted down" She's been attacked by pie throwers and now needs a body guard on some campuses.

Here is summary with a number of examples of conservatives denied free speech http://www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org......

I am not permitted to post on my school's online forum.

Cliff.Stamp's university didn't like him being on DDO, and didn't like DDO being a little too free in our discourse.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
darkkermit
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8/15/2011 5:15:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:16:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.

The Left is characteristically intolerant. It's part of their doctrine.

The Left doctrine is about regulating the economy and social welfare programs. How is that intolerance? Surely these can be cited as "rightist" intolerance in which Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly are just plain rude to their guests. Also tea party attacks women.

Even though I align myself as a libertarian, not a liberal, not all of their arguments are bad. As always, there are smart debaters from both faction, and bad debaters from both factions.
Open borders debate:
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RoyLatham
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8/15/2011 10:16:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/15/2011 5:15:29 AM, darkkermit wrote:
Even though I align myself as a libertarian, not a liberal, not all of their arguments are bad. As always, there are smart debaters from both faction, and bad debaters from both factions.

Back to square one. Intolerance is not disagreement, it is attempting to deny your opponent a forum to disagree. No matter how rude a person is in a debate, they are nonetheless engaged in debate. You can argue that debate tactics are unfair, or whatever, but having a debate is a willingness to engage. Examples of liberal unwillingness to engage intellectually:

Juan Williams was fired from NPR for appearing regularly on O'Reilly, even though Williams always vigorously defended the liberal viewpoint.

Conservative speakers on campus are attacked and shouted down. Not so liberals.

Anne Coulter has written many New York Times best sellers, but they never review her books.

Maddow and Olbermann never have a guest who disagrees with them. That's typical.

Libertarian John Stossel wrote a book that attacked both liberal and conservative beliefs. The liberal media wouldn't talk to him. Just about every conservative talk show wanted him on.

Al Gore won't debate global warming. Very few CO2 crisis types, scientists or not, are willing to debate the issue. Instead, they work to make sure that skeptics are fired and don't get published.

Physical attacks are used to try to intimidate Tea Partiers, Republicans, the IMF, union pponents, and so forth. The leftist idea is to prevent opponents from meeting or presenting an opposing viewpoint.

There are ongoing attempts to shut own conservative talk radio through legislation.

See?
Wnope
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8/15/2011 10:46:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/15/2011 12:08:56 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/14/2011 10:58:39 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Yes. Make it 3 rounds because I'd like to have it done with before school starts.

The challenge is here http://www.debate.org...

I tried to correct the spelling error "generalizations" in the title, but due to a bug in the DDO site software any change results in the debate being lost in cyberspace.

I made it acceptance plus three rounds of actual debate.

TheAtheist- you'd be a moron to try and take on the resolution as Roy currently has it worded.
Ore_Ele
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8/15/2011 11:48:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/14/2011 9:16:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 8/14/2011 5:00:48 PM, darkkermit wrote:
What's the point of this? Of course you can find intolerance on both sides or what qualifies for 'intolerance'. I could give many examples, however I don't see the point.

The Left is characteristically intolerant. It's part of their doctrine.

All sides are characteristically intolerant. It just depends on what forms of "tolerance" you accept and don't accept. Every side is "intolerant" of murder and rape and what not. It just depends on where you personally draw the line of "this intolerance is okay, and this intolerance is not okay," and where that line compares to other ideologies.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
RoyLatham
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8/15/2011 1:11:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/15/2011 11:48:46 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
All sides are characteristically intolerant. It just depends on what forms of "tolerance" you accept and don't accept. Every side is "intolerant" of murder and rape and what not. It just depends on where you personally draw the line of "this intolerance is okay, and this intolerance is not okay," and where that line compares to other ideologies.

Do you think that there is no point in distinguishing between people who are intolerant of murder and those who want to suppress free speech? It's nonsense to suppose they are all just alike. All words are interpreted in the context that they are used. Discussion of "tolerance" is presented here in the context of political ideology and how ideologies treat those who disagree. When we say the the KKK is "intolerant" we don't mean they are rude in debates, we mean that they want to dispose of the people with whom they disagree rather than engage them n debate. That's the sense of "intolerance" in this discussion.