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Question to Anarchists

Lickdafoot
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8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Ore_Ele
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8/19/2011 3:45:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?

Or having hedge wars, lol (old reference).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/19/2011 3:49:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?

and also what would stop the strong and violent from killing or ruling the weak and non-violent?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Tim_Spin
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8/19/2011 3:57:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Didn't you make this thread a few months ago?
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
Tim_Spin
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8/19/2011 3:58:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 3:57:15 PM, Tim_Spin wrote:
Didn't you make this thread a few months ago?

Nvm thought you were Lionheart.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/19/2011 4:32:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?:

I don't think there is a single anarchist left on this website, but there are a few minarchists left, myself included.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
TheAtheistAllegiance
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8/19/2011 4:50:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 3:45:53 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?

Or having hedge wars, lol (old reference).

ROFL!
Lickdafoot
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8/19/2011 4:51:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 4:32:44 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?:

I don't think there is a single anarchist left on this website, but there are a few minarchists left, myself included.

whats is a minarchist?
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
mongoose
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8/19/2011 4:52:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 4:51:45 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 8/19/2011 4:32:44 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?:

I don't think there is a single anarchist left on this website, but there are a few minarchists left, myself included.

whats is a minarchist?

Someone who wants minimal government, as opposed to no government.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/19/2011 4:53:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 4:51:45 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 8/19/2011 4:32:44 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?:

I don't think there is a single anarchist left on this website, but there are a few minarchists left, myself included.

whats is a minarchist?:

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 4:54:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?

This is the question that you will never get a solid answer to from anarchists. That is because true anarchy just isn't possible. Even animals form packs, flocks, herds, etc. and have leaders. It is natural to have leadership. It all depends on how the system is designed and ran. The funny thing at I have seen is that most anarchists don't even advocate true anarchy, because they know it isn't possible. They advocate a system called anarco-capitalism. Which isn't anarchy at all, it's just another system of order. Though granted it is a loosely organized system. The natural tendency to group and lead one's will would naturally corrupt the integrity of the an-cap system and therefor it would turn into a string of small dictatorships, not unlike the small kingdoms of the Dark Ages that arose out of multiple periods of anarchy. They fail to realize that anarchy has always been the period right before a group and leader rises to power and that this will happen anytime anarchy is present.

I am working on presenting a debate on this subject as we speak.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
TheAtheistAllegiance
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8/19/2011 5:02:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 4:54:31 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?

This is the question that you will never get a solid answer to from anarchists. That is because true anarchy just isn't possible. Even animals form packs, flocks, herds, etc. and have leaders. It is natural to have leadership. It all depends on how the system is designed and ran. The funny thing at I have seen is that most anarchists don't even advocate true anarchy, because they know it isn't possible. They advocate a system called anarco-capitalism. Which isn't anarchy at all, it's just another system of order. Though granted it is a loosely organized system. The natural tendency to group and lead one's will would naturally corrupt the integrity of the an-cap system and therefor it would turn into a string of small dictatorships, not unlike the small kingdoms of the Dark Ages that arose out of multiple periods of anarchy. They fail to realize that anarchy has always been the period right before a group and leader rises to power and that this will happen anytime anarchy is present.

I am working on presenting a debate on this subject as we speak.

I'm center-left, and even I have to say you're a liar. Anarchists explicitly do NOT advocate a lack of hierarchy. Any efficient business model is going to have some form of hierarchy, as with families, social groups, etc. What Anarchists advocate is the absence of an aggressive monopoly on arbitration, which accrues resources through mass institutionalized theft. Whether or not privately owned, polycentric institutions could effectively fill that void is another question, but quit straw-manning Anarchists.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/19/2011 5:23:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is the question that you will never get a solid answer to from anarchists. That is because true anarchy just isn't possible. Even animals form packs, flocks, herds, etc. and have leaders. It is natural to have leadership. It all depends on how the system is designed and ran. The funny thing at I have seen is that most anarchists don't even advocate true anarchy, because they know it isn't possible. They advocate a system called anarco-capitalism. Which isn't anarchy at all, it's just another system of order. Though granted it is a loosely organized system. The natural tendency to group and lead one's will would naturally corrupt the integrity of the an-cap system and therefor it would turn into a string of small dictatorships, not unlike the small kingdoms of the Dark Ages that arose out of multiple periods of anarchy. They fail to realize that anarchy has always been the period right before a group and leader rises to power and that this will happen anytime anarchy is present.:

I believe anarchism runs in to problems too, but you have a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of what anarchism is. Anarchism =/= disorder. All anarchism means is that there is no central, publically run government, not total disorder. Anarchists want order as much as the next guy, they just feel that government is an inefficient way to maintain order.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 6:45:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 5:02:07 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 8/19/2011 4:54:31 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/19/2011 3:41:46 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been wondering how you anarchists propose to make anarchy work?

We see through history that people like to flock together, fight for a cause, and follow a leader.

So what would stop any person from coming into power, and conquering lands, killing innocent people, taking over, etc?

This is the question that you will never get a solid answer to from anarchists. That is because true anarchy just isn't possible. Even animals form packs, flocks, herds, etc. and have leaders. It is natural to have leadership. It all depends on how the system is designed and ran. The funny thing at I have seen is that most anarchists don't even advocate true anarchy, because they know it isn't possible. They advocate a system called anarco-capitalism. Which isn't anarchy at all, it's just another system of order. Though granted it is a loosely organized system. The natural tendency to group and lead one's will would naturally corrupt the integrity of the an-cap system and therefor it would turn into a string of small dictatorships, not unlike the small kingdoms of the Dark Ages that arose out of multiple periods of anarchy. They fail to realize that anarchy has always been the period right before a group and leader rises to power and that this will happen anytime anarchy is present.

I am working on presenting a debate on this subject as we speak.

I'm center-left, and even I have to say you're a liar. Anarchists explicitly do NOT advocate a lack of hierarchy. Any efficient business model is going to have some form of hierarchy, as with families, social groups, etc. What Anarchists advocate is the absence of an aggressive monopoly on arbitration, which accrues resources through mass institutionalized theft. Whether or not privately owned, polycentric institutions could effectively fill that void is another question, but quit straw-manning Anarchists.

I am not strawmanning anything. You say anarchists advocate on the absence of an aggressive monopoly on arbitration, which accrues resources through mass institutionalized theft? Really? Because eery anarchist that I talk to has a lot more to say than that. Not sure where you got that definition of an Anarchist from.

The fact of the matter is that a hierarchy of leadership will always result from any group of people. This leader naturally holds a monopoly over decisions to be made. What these decisions are and who these leaders are, that is why we have a system of order to organize these things. Anarchy will always turn into some system of order because it is natural. This is what Anarchists don't understand. It's the exact reason why hey don't exist, because all it is a period of time right before a system of order is formed. A centralized system will always result. To think is otherwise is faulty thinking in my opinion.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 6:58:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 5:23:07 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
This is the question that you will never get a solid answer to from anarchists. That is because true anarchy just isn't possible. Even animals form packs, flocks, herds, etc. and have leaders. It is natural to have leadership. It all depends on how the system is designed and ran. The funny thing at I have seen is that most anarchists don't even advocate true anarchy, because they know it isn't possible. They advocate a system called anarco-capitalism. Which isn't anarchy at all, it's just another system of order. Though granted it is a loosely organized system. The natural tendency to group and lead one's will would naturally corrupt the integrity of the an-cap system and therefor it would turn into a string of small dictatorships, not unlike the small kingdoms of the Dark Ages that arose out of multiple periods of anarchy. They fail to realize that anarchy has always been the period right before a group and leader rises to power and that this will happen anytime anarchy is present.:

I believe anarchism runs in to problems too, but you have a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of what anarchism is. Anarchism =/= disorder. All anarchism means is that there is no central, publically run government, not total disorder. Anarchists want order as much as the next guy, they just feel that government is an inefficient way to maintain order.

I understand exactly what anarchy is and it is not possible. A centralized system of order will always result. That's because order in it's essence is a form of centralization. That centralization may be of many people as in a council of leaders, but it will always result in some form of centralization. Human history can testify to what I speak.

You can see this all through nature. It is Natural Law. Everything follows some kind of a system of order, and where there is order among life, it is centralized and it usually has a hierarchy. Now, I believe that humans are intelligent enough to get around the hierarchy part of the system in certain designs. However any design of order coming from a state of anarchy would reflect the Natural Law of the land, and not a collective design that is normally called a "state".

As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 7:00:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 5:20:15 PM, Kinesis wrote:
These are boring kindergarden objections to anarchism. At least read some anarchist literature before objecting to it.

I know assloads about anarchists and anarchy in general. I was one. You on the other hand don't seem to be able to answer even the most basic of questions concerning your advocation and support of anarchy.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
000ike
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8/19/2011 7:22:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.

Lol. You know what I find funny? Instead of actually showing this higher knowledge of anarchy you claim to have, you just insult the guy and scurry away. Whats your I.Q by the way? just curious.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 7:39:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.

Oh really? Then show how my post resents my inferior knowledge about anarchy. Show your superior knowledge. Also, you are barely older than me, yet you behave like a child.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Greyparrot
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8/19/2011 7:40:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:22:58 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.


Lol. You know what I find funny? Instead of actually showing this higher knowledge of anarchy you claim to have, you just insult the guy and scurry away. Whats your I.Q by the way? just curious.

So philosophy really is talk on a cereal box... and backpacks!
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/19/2011 7:42:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:22:58 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.


Lol. You know what I find funny? Instead of actually showing this higher knowledge of anarchy you claim to have, you just insult the guy and scurry away. Whats your I.Q by the way? just curious.:

Check your fire, son. I very respectfully said he had a fundamental misunderstanding of what anarchy is and the guy got beligerant on me, then further proceeded to demonstrate an astonishingly abysmal understanding with a useless anecdote about how he drew anarchy signs on his backpack and owned the Anarchist Cookbook, therefore he knows all there is to know.

Mind you, anyone with even a modicum of understanding has commented on the same thing.

The guy was a prick to me and has the audacity to try and school everyone on here who evidently knows leaps and bounds more than he does on the subject. That's laughable, so excuse me all over the place for laughing.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 7:43:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:22:58 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.


Lol. You know what I find funny? Instead of actually showing this higher knowledge of anarchy you claim to have, you just insult the guy and scurry away. Whats your I.Q by the way? just curious.

I never said that I have a higher knowledge of anarchy. I said that I have known what anarchy is for over 20 years. Big difference. Also, I never insulted anybody. I pointed out a fact about his post. Further, my IQ dances in the 130's. What is your IQ?
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Tim_Spin
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8/19/2011 7:43:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I rather enjoy reading lionheart's posts, not because he shows any comprehension of anarchist thought but because he employs the views of the majority of people. It's a nice reality check from the readings if Hoppe and Rothbard.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
Tim_Spin
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8/19/2011 8:11:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
When I'm reading I'll read a whole chapter on the justification of a single component of an argument. Contrast that with Lionheart reducing the entire human race to leaders and followers in a single paragraph and you'll understand my amusement.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
Lionheart
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8/19/2011 8:15:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:43:46 PM, Tim_Spin wrote:
I rather enjoy reading lionheart's posts, not because he shows any comprehension of anarchist thought but because he employs the views of the majority of people. It's a nice reality check from the readings if Hoppe and Rothbard.

That's because the views of the real people who are the ones who represent collective reality and any reality that is collective is not ever going to result in anarchy.

Give me your version of anarchy and I will tell you my thoughts.

It's funny how every single person who opposes me on this forum refrains from making an actual argument against me. All I have seen 4 times in a row from 4 different anarchist supporters is "You don't even know what anarchy is".

Actually, yes I do. Now put up an argument or move on. You just saying "You don't know what anarchy is". Is a very weak argument. Give me an argument that refutes the things have presented about my point of view. Then we have something to start with.
"Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power."


- Lionheart -
Tim_Spin
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8/19/2011 8:18:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 8:13:29 PM, quarterexchange wrote:
Who would control nuclear weapons in nuclear states that became Anarcho-Capitalist?

As they were built by the state for the sole purpose of dominating or warring with other states, I'd say disarmament is a good possibility. It all depends on ones means towards achieving anstate of anarchy. If you support political means then the way is to slowly make the government smaller with eventual disarmament. If however your like the dunks who give anarchists a bad name, you might build a few car bombs.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"
000ike
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8/19/2011 8:23:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/19/2011 7:43:26 PM, Lionheart wrote:
At 8/19/2011 7:22:58 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/19/2011 7:20:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
As I have said, this is my belief. If you are arguing against it then do so. Don't wine and cry at me about not knowing what an anarchy is. I have known what an anarchy is for over 20 years of my life. I used to draw anarchy signs on my folders and backpacks at school. I had a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook until I got married and then moved. I was an avid anarchist, so don't go blowin smoke my way unless there is fire not far behind.:

Haha, oh my God, this is priceless! You clearly have NO clue, whatsoever, what anarchy is.

Run along now, the adults are talking.


Lol. You know what I find funny? Instead of actually showing this higher knowledge of anarchy you claim to have, you just insult the guy and scurry away. Whats your I.Q by the way? just curious.

I never said that I have a higher knowledge of anarchy. I said that I have known what anarchy is for over 20 years. Big difference. Also, I never insulted anybody. I pointed out a fact about his post. Further, my IQ dances in the 130's. What is your IQ?

Lion that post was for Paradigm in reply to his laughing at you. In fact, if you'd look up, you'd see that that was who I quoted.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Tim_Spin
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8/19/2011 8:26:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
First, I'm the only anarchist posting right now. Everyone else is either a minarchist or someone with a rudimentary understanding of anarchist thought. However I would like to save the real argumentation for our debate.

Also I hope you done think I was trying to insult you. I did say your posts are enjoyable to read. Your views are that of the majority of society. It's enjoyable for me to see what people think will happen based on faulty definitions of human nature or laughable crap about leaders and followers.

Your posts are funny, whether on anarchy or anything else. Sorry that my amusement comes at your expense but I really can't help myself. It's like having a group discussion with my classmates in my economics class.
Astonished, the talent agent asks the man what him and his family call their act.The man responds, "The Aristocrats!"