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Left Ideology Confusion

LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/4/2011 6:30:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Hey Everyone!

I call myself a Liberal, and these are my general views:

Gay marriage: pro
Abortion: Not sure, but leaning to pro
Euthanasia: Pro
Death Penalty: Con
Gun Rights: Con
Legal Porn: Pro
All Wars: Con

Health Care: Pro
Welfare: Pro
Progressive Tax: Pro
Minimum wage: Pro
Unions: Pro

My confusion is whether im considered a;

Liberal
neo-Liberal
Progressive
Socialist

and what are the differences between these ideologies?

Thanks!
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/4/2011 6:43:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Progressive. For persoal freedom in the social realm and general government interference in the economy.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/4/2011 8:18:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Okay thanks.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/4/2011 9:20:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

Instead of investing in a weapon of murder, invest in better security. Instead of waiting for someone to intrude into your house, prevent it.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/4/2011 9:24:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

More like stereotypical Canadian, lol. We don't like guns up here. :P
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/4/2011 9:28:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 9:24:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

More like stereotypical Canadian, lol. We don't like guns up here. :P

Lol hahah, this is a good point. When the Harperites try to take out the gun registry, they're going to get many new enemies, and the other parties will use that to their advantage in the next election. Most Canadians understand that gun rights are dangerous.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/4/2011 9:32:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 9:28:02 PM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:24:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

More like stereotypical Canadian, lol. We don't like guns up here. :P

Lol hahah, this is a good point. When the Harperites try to take out the gun registry, they're going to get many new enemies, and the other parties will use that to their advantage in the next election. Most Canadians understand that gun rights are dangerous.

That is true, but I think if people were properly educated about gun safety that it would be alot safer and a good thing to have. I'm a female and less than 5 feet tall, I need way to protect myself.
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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9/4/2011 11:41:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 9:20:19 PM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

Instead of investing in a weapon of murder, invest in better security. Instead of waiting for someone to intrude into your house, prevent it.

Unfortunately force fields are currently outside of my price and time ranges.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/4/2011 11:58:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Liberalism is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, free trade, and the freedom of religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Neoliberalism is a label for the market-driven approach to economic and social policy based on neoclassical theories of economics that stresses the efficiency of private enterprise, liberalized trade and relatively open markets, and therefore seeks to maximize the role of the private sector in determining the political and economic priorities of the state. The term is typically used by opponents of the policy and rarely by supporters.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform through governmental action. Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative or reactionary ideologies.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system. As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/5/2011 11:09:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 11:41:19 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:20:19 PM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

Instead of investing in a weapon of murder, invest in better security. Instead of waiting for someone to intrude into your house, prevent it.

Unfortunately force fields are currently outside of my price and time ranges.

Hahah. Ignorant kid. I'm refering to security systems.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/5/2011 11:10:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/4/2011 11:58:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Liberalism is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, free trade, and the freedom of religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Neoliberalism is a label for the market-driven approach to economic and social policy based on neoclassical theories of economics that stresses the efficiency of private enterprise, liberalized trade and relatively open markets, and therefore seeks to maximize the role of the private sector in determining the political and economic priorities of the state. The term is typically used by opponents of the policy and rarely by supporters.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform through governmental action. Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative or reactionary ideologies.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system. As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks for answering my question!
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/5/2011 11:15:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
In British terms you are a liberal, though it's not always easy to know when that crosses over into socialism.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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9/5/2011 11:23:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM, socialpinko wrote:
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?

That people are too irresponsible to have them and that only the government, which never has ulterior motives, should be trusted with them.
I don't discriminate....I hate everybody.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/5/2011 11:31:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM, socialpinko wrote:
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?

People are stupid. Imagine a whole bunch of stupid people with guns.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/5/2011 11:40:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 11:31:04 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM, socialpinko wrote:
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?

People are stupid. Imagine a whole bunch of stupid people with guns.

The same can be applied to anything. People are too stupid to drive late metal boxes with wheels, people are too stupid to drink alcohol, people are too stupid to vote properly, exc.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/5/2011 12:20:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 11:40:17 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:31:04 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM, socialpinko wrote:
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?

People are stupid. Imagine a whole bunch of stupid people with guns.

The same can be applied to anything. People are too stupid to drive late metal boxes with wheels, people are too stupid to drink alcohol, people are too stupid to vote properly, exc.

But, "metal boxes with wheels" aren't murder weapons, alcohol isn't a murder weapon, and voting cannot murder people.

To put it more clearly, "Metal boxes with wheels", which I think you're refering to vehicles were created for transportation. Alcohol is used as a depressent. Voting is used to create a democracy.

Guns on the other hand, were created to kill.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
Grape
Posts: 989
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9/5/2011 12:27:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The intent with which something was created is unrelated entirely to its destructive capacity. It is as easy to murder someone with a car as to murder someone with a gun.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/5/2011 12:30:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 11:40:17 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:31:04 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM, socialpinko wrote:
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?

People are stupid. Imagine a whole bunch of stupid people with guns.

The same can be applied to anything. People are too stupid to drive late metal boxes with wheels,

No as readily applicable as weapons in the heat of the moment.

people are too stupid to drink alcohol, people are too stupid to vote properly, exc.

Not as threatening either.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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9/5/2011 12:42:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 12:27:56 PM, Grape wrote:
The intent with which something was created is unrelated entirely to its destructive capacity. It is as easy to murder someone with a car as to murder someone with a gun.

a random person.. yes, generally..

the killing power of guns are quite a bit more adaptable to circumstances though...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Grape
Posts: 989
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9/5/2011 12:45:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The point is that there is no objective categorical distinction between weapon and non-weapon type objects. It is entirely subjective. The fact that guns are more effective for killing under certain circumstances is a matter of degree and not principle. No objective brightline can be determined that allows us to discern what objects can be banned as weapons and what ones can't.
LeoL
Posts: 109
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9/5/2011 1:05:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 12:45:47 PM, Grape wrote:
The point is that there is no objective categorical distinction between weapon and non-weapon type objects. It is entirely subjective. The fact that guns are more effective for killing under certain circumstances is a matter of degree and not principle. No objective brightline can be determined that allows us to discern what objects can be banned as weapons and what ones can't.

There is a huge categorical distinction between weapons and non-weapon type objects. You just have to ask yourself, why was this object created?
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -Douglas Adams
tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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9/5/2011 1:22:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 11:09:43 AM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/4/2011 11:41:19 PM, tornshoe92 wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:20:19 PM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/4/2011 9:11:43 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No gun rights?

Stereotypical liberal.

Instead of investing in a weapon of murder, invest in better security. Instead of waiting for someone to intrude into your house, prevent it.

Unfortunately force fields are currently outside of my price and time ranges.

Hahah. Ignorant kid. I'm refering to security systems.

I understand what you were refering to, but other than as a deterent to lazy criminals, security systems don't really keep people out. Instead they make sure the criminal doesn't stay long.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/5/2011 1:29:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 1:05:53 PM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/5/2011 12:45:47 PM, Grape wrote:
The point is that there is no objective categorical distinction between weapon and non-weapon type objects. It is entirely subjective. The fact that guns are more effective for killing under certain circumstances is a matter of degree and not principle. No objective brightline can be determined that allows us to discern what objects can be banned as weapons and what ones can't.

There is a huge categorical distinction between weapons and non-weapon type objects. You just have to ask yourself, why was this object created?

Did you read his first post? Cars weren't created with the intent of killing people but it is still possible.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/5/2011 1:30:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 12:20:50 PM, LeoL wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:40:17 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:31:04 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/5/2011 11:15:39 AM, socialpinko wrote:
What exactly is the argument against gun rights?

People are stupid. Imagine a whole bunch of stupid people with guns.

The same can be applied to anything. People are too stupid to drive late metal boxes with wheels, people are too stupid to drink alcohol, people are too stupid to vote properly, exc.

But, "metal boxes with wheels" aren't murder weapons, alcohol isn't a murder weapon, and voting cannot murder people.

To put it more clearly, "Metal boxes with wheels", which I think you're refering to vehicles were created for transportation. Alcohol is used as a depressent. Voting is used to create a democracy.

Guns on the other hand, were created to kill.

Really, if you try you could murder people with almost anything. Of course you have guns which were created to harm, but that doesn't change the fact that if you try anything can become a dangerous weapon. Remember, people can do hit and runs in cars, people can put poison in alcohol, and voting can give you people like Hitler.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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9/5/2011 1:34:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 12:45:47 PM, Grape wrote:
The point is that there is no objective categorical distinction between weapon and non-weapon type objects. It is entirely subjective. The fact that guns are more effective for killing under certain circumstances is a matter of degree and not principle. No objective brightline can be determined that allows us to discern what objects can be banned as weapons and what ones can't.

So? Rules can't be enforced because they're matters of degree? Why not?
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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9/6/2011 6:32:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/5/2011 12:45:47 PM, Grape wrote:
The point is that there is no objective categorical distinction between weapon and non-weapon type objects. It is entirely subjective. The fact that guns are more effective for killing under certain circumstances is a matter of degree and not principle. No objective brightline can be determined that allows us to discern what objects can be banned as weapons and what ones can't.

Of course it's a matter of principle. Sure tools intended for other purposes can be used to harm, but a weapon is made for that very purpose and has no legitimate use beyond violence and the threat of violence.

Also, what kinesis said.

And welcome back.