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Response To Perry's Response To Paul's New Ad

jat93
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9/6/2011 6:44:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Pretty much, Ron Paul released an ad this morning highlighting his early support for Ronald Reagan's campaign when the establishment largely rejected him, and Perry's association with Al Gore's 1988 Presidential campaign.

Perry's campaign responded with, among other things, a lengthy quote of Ron Paul saying in 1987 that the Reagan administration had left him totally disillusioned with the Republican party, thus explaining his switch to the Libertarian party.

Personally, as an ardent Ron Paul supporter, I think the ad was a horrible move to begin with. Honestly, he is a man of such honesty and integrity that to bash Perry for 25 year old politics is very beneath him. Also, it's really questionable if Perry's support of Gore is even worth noting to begin with.

Worse still is Perry's campaign's response to the ad. In short, who cares? Ron Paul supported the ideas that Reagan won upon in 1980. Is it so crazy that two terms later, Paul was resentful of the fact that Reagan ended up ballooning the size of the federal government, the exact opposite of what he campaigned on, and what Paul supported?

This will undeniably be brought up in tomorrow's debate and perhaps even afterward. It is my sincere hope that Paul doesn't back down like Pawlenty did when questioned about his "Obamneycare" statement (comparing Romney's health care plan for Massachusetts to "Obamacare"). It would cost him much of the rising momentum that his campaign has been gaining as of late. That would be a damn shame considering that at this point, he's the only 2012 candidate worth supporting. And he's infinitely better than Perry. Hopefully anyone with half a brain could see that, and that Paul has a much better shot against Obama than Perry does.

So to those reading this, I have some opinion questions:
- Was Paul's ad good or bad for his campaign?
- Was Perry's response good or bad for his campaign?
- Finally, who do you think will emerge victorious from the inevitable confrontation that will result between them in the debates?
DetectableNinja
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9/6/2011 6:52:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I believe that Paul's ad, though misguided (as you said, I was a bit crestfallen to see the politician who I respect the most stoop to bashing), MAY actually do his campaign for the primary good. This will hopefully resound with the conservative's who were supporters, or at least supporters of the ideals, of Reagan.

As for Perry's response, I think that'll actually have little effect. This is largely because his attack was almost too petty to have an impact.

Lastly, I think that Paul will shred Perry in the upcoming debate (at least I hope so--every person besides Paul actually kinda scares me.) As to why--this is merely based on positions. Paul has the best positions which sound with average American conservatives and libertarians. In fact, I suspect Perry will try to pull something petty, like attempting to insinuate that Paul's foreign policy is isolationist--which it clearly is not.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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jat93
Posts: 1,440
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9/6/2011 7:22:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Here's the way I see it going down:

Rick Perry brings up 1987 letter and alleges that Paul is a hypocrite for praising Reagan in 1980 and bashing him in 1987. Possibly a defense about supporting Gore, i.e. he wasn't as involved as Paul implies, it was nearly 25 years ago, etc.

Ron Paul counters, reminding him that he left the Republican party because, essentially, Reagan wasn't as conservative and into "small government" as his campaign made him seem. He throws in something about his consistency and that while Perry was a registered Democrat campaigning for one of today's most notoriously liberal Democrats back in 1988, Paul's ideology has been totally consistent. He might also defend his 1987 letter, giving examples of why Reagan actually wasn't as "conservative" as he professed to be.

In the end, it seems that Paul always owns any debate within the debate with cold hard facts and now that Perry's taken the bait and accepted Paul's challenge, I don't know why tomorrow night will be any different. Hopefully Paul will kick some serious @$$, defending his record, exposing Perry's, and offering a history lesson or two. The question is more how Perry will react since this is his first debate for the 2012 election.
comoncents
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9/6/2011 7:44:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think it is bad news. Perry is no saint but this does picture him in a light that is not accurate. The guy was in the democratic party and he chose the most conservative democrat to back. It is silly and Paul is better than that.
curious18
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9/6/2011 8:04:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
wait, Gore wasn't as liberal in 1988 as he is now. So how can Paul pull a "what Reagan said in 1980 is not what he did in 1987" but hold Perry to that? Also, does Paul have to acknowledge that people learn and change? If he doesn't believe that Perry is able to learn from his "mistakes" and get better, does he also believe that all his followers that support him now, but didn't in 2008 are lying hypocrites?
CosmicAlfonzo
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9/6/2011 8:11:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't know why anyone would want to brag about supporting Reagan.

Oh yeah, people like him for some reason.
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darkkermit
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9/6/2011 8:19:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ron Paul is a politician and making an ad that attacks Perry and puts him in a better light in order to take down the politician. What?
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Wnope
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9/6/2011 8:21:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think Paul should have left the third-party attack ads to the front runners who are most concerned with gunning Perry down.

Paul isn't really in the position where he will gain support by making more enemies of the establishment. While attacking Obama might give him a support boost, attacking Perry is unlikely to give Paul any advantages.

He should stay outside the attack ad fray and chide everyone for it. The onus will be on Bachman and Romney to go negative.
Danielle
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9/6/2011 10:51:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 8:21:19 PM, Wnope wrote:
I think Paul should have left the third-party attack ads to the front runners who are most concerned with gunning Perry down.

Paul isn't really in the position where he will gain support by making more enemies of the establishment. While attacking Obama might give him a support boost, attacking Perry is unlikely to give Paul any advantages.

He should stay outside the attack ad fray and chide everyone for it. The onus will be on Bachman and Romney to go negative.

I agree with this completely.
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BennyW
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9/7/2011 2:39:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Everyone keeps talking about this ad but no one has linked to it so I haven't seen it. From what I have heard of it I do think it is not fair to criticize Perry for his support of Gore in 88 as people do change. There is plenty to criticize him for today.
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It's pretty lazy to quote things you disagree with, call it stupid and move on, rather than arguing with the person. -000ike
jat93
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9/7/2011 3:47:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
For those who haven't seen it, here are all the links:

The attached video is the original Ron Paul ad which praises Paul for supporting Ronald Reagan's campaign even when the establishment rejected it, and criticizes Perry for being "Al Gore's cheerleader" in 1988.

Perry's campaign quickly shot back, pointing out that Paul left the GOP in 1987 because of the Reagan administration. Of course, he unwittingly proved that Ron Paul is more of a true conservative than Ronald Reagan and that he considers principle over party, which the Perry campaign apparently doesn't understand. That response can be read here: http://www.rickperry.org... Perry should hope nobody actually reads this, because it is nothing but a Paul campaign boost.

In the latest news of the battle between the two campaign's, Paul's campaign chairman Jesse Benton responded to Perry's response pointing out that they missed the point - the message they meant to convey is that the problem is not solely the fact that Perry was once a Democrat, rather that "he still acts like one." That response, which points out some of Perry's apparent inconsistencies with his "small government" conservative philosophy, can be read here: http://www.ronpaul2012.com...

Ultimately, this is a huge boost for Ron Paul. Perry took the bait and responded by pointing out that Paul is more of a true conservative than Ronald Reagan, and that he values principles over parties. This would have been bad enough for Perry but now with the killer response from the Paul campaign, and the probable showdown that will occur between the two tonight, I think you can all imagine who will wind up on top.
Wnope
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9/7/2011 4:06:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 3:47:50 PM, jat93 wrote:
For those who haven't seen it, here are all the links:

The attached video is the original Ron Paul ad which praises Paul for supporting Ronald Reagan's campaign even when the establishment rejected it, and criticizes Perry for being "Al Gore's cheerleader" in 1988.

Perry's campaign quickly shot back, pointing out that Paul left the GOP in 1987 because of the Reagan administration. Of course, he unwittingly proved that Ron Paul is more of a true conservative than Ronald Reagan and that he considers principle over party, which the Perry campaign apparently doesn't understand. That response can be read here: http://www.rickperry.org... Perry should hope nobody actually reads this, because it is nothing but a Paul campaign boost.

In the latest news of the battle between the two campaign's, Paul's campaign chairman Jesse Benton responded to Perry's response pointing out that they missed the point - the message they meant to convey is that the problem is not solely the fact that Perry was once a Democrat, rather that "he still acts like one." That response, which points out some of Perry's apparent inconsistencies with his "small government" conservative philosophy, can be read here: http://www.ronpaul2012.com...

Ultimately, this is a huge boost for Ron Paul. Perry took the bait and responded by pointing out that Paul is more of a true conservative than Ronald Reagan, and that he values principles over parties. This would have been bad enough for Perry but now with the killer response from the Paul campaign, and the probable showdown that will occur between the two tonight, I think you can all imagine who will wind up on top.



In all fairness to the Paul campaign, taking on Perry directly would be a nice way to appear to be in the top echelon of contenders.
GeoLaureate8
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9/7/2011 5:53:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/6/2011 8:04:33 PM, curious18 wrote:
wait, Gore wasn't as liberal in 1988 as he is now. So how can Paul pull a "what Reagan said in 1980 is not what he did in 1987" but hold Perry to that? Also, does Paul have to acknowledge that people learn and change? If he doesn't believe that Perry is able to learn from his "mistakes" and get better, does he also believe that all his followers that support him now, but didn't in 2008 are lying hypocrites?

Perry didn't learn from his mistakes and get better. He still has neo liberal fascist policies. He just changed his party because Texas won't elect a democrat.

Ron Paul has been a consistent libertarian. Perry has been a flip flopper who has been consistently fascist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ore_Ele
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9/7/2011 6:34:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 5:53:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/6/2011 8:04:33 PM, curious18 wrote:
wait, Gore wasn't as liberal in 1988 as he is now. So how can Paul pull a "what Reagan said in 1980 is not what he did in 1987" but hold Perry to that? Also, does Paul have to acknowledge that people learn and change? If he doesn't believe that Perry is able to learn from his "mistakes" and get better, does he also believe that all his followers that support him now, but didn't in 2008 are lying hypocrites?

Perry didn't learn from his mistakes and get better. He still has neo liberal fascist policies. He just changed his party because Texas won't elect a democrat.

Are you saying that Texas is so dumb that they'll elect a neo-liberal fascist, just because he has an "R" next to his name?

What state is Ron Paul from again?


Ron Paul has been a consistent libertarian. Perry has been a flip flopper who has been consistently fascist.

lol
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
GeoLaureate8
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9/7/2011 6:52:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 6:34:03 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/7/2011 5:53:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Perry didn't learn from his mistakes and get better. He still has neo liberal fascist policies. He just changed his party because Texas won't elect a democrat.

Are you saying that Texas is so dumb that they'll elect a neo-liberal fascist, just because he has an "R" next to his name?

Unfortunately yes. Look who Texas elected. Bush and Perry for Governor.

What state is Ron Paul from again?

Ron Paul represents a small Congressional district in Texas, not the whole state. Regardless, only the RP supporters of Texas are smart or semi-intelligent. All the other Texas voters who vote for non-Ron Paul candidates need their head examined.

Ron Paul has been a consistent libertarian. Perry has been a flip flopper who has been consistently fascist.

lol

There's nothing conflicting with that statement. It's true, Rick Perry has switched platforms, switched rhetoric, switched images, but behind the mask he's still a fascist. Is it really that hard to understand? C'mon.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ore_Ele
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9/7/2011 7:05:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 6:52:27 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/7/2011 6:34:03 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/7/2011 5:53:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Perry didn't learn from his mistakes and get better. He still has neo liberal fascist policies. He just changed his party because Texas won't elect a democrat.

Are you saying that Texas is so dumb that they'll elect a neo-liberal fascist, just because he has an "R" next to his name?

Unfortunately yes. Look who Texas elected. Bush and Perry for Governor.

What state is Ron Paul from again?

Ron Paul represents a small Congressional district in Texas, not the whole state. Regardless, only the RP supporters of Texas are smart or semi-intelligent. All the other Texas voters who vote for non-Ron Paul candidates need their head examined.

The 14th District voted for Perry, both in the election and in the primary.


Ron Paul has been a consistent libertarian. Perry has been a flip flopper who has been consistently fascist.

lol

There's nothing conflicting with that statement. It's true, Rick Perry has switched platforms, switched rhetoric, switched images, but behind the mask he's still a fascist. Is it really that hard to understand? C'mon.

No, I just think that it is funny that you used those two phrases so close together.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
GeoLaureate8
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9/7/2011 7:23:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 7:05:33 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/7/2011 6:52:27 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Unfortunately yes. Look who Texas elected. Bush and Perry for Governor.

What state is Ron Paul from again?

Ron Paul represents a small Congressional district in Texas, not the whole state. Regardless, only the RP supporters of Texas are smart or semi-intelligent. All the other Texas voters who vote for non-Ron Paul candidates need their head examined.

The 14th District voted for Perry, both in the election and in the primary.

Hence why I said "semi-intelligent." I have seen many stupid Ron Paul supporters and yes, many of those same people will vote for people like Perry.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
jat93
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9/7/2011 7:51:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
For the record, this was just discussed in the debate.
Paul owned Perry, flat out. It went exactly as everyone predicted: Perry brings it up, and ALL he says is that Paul wrote a letter expressing discontent with Republicans because of Reagan. Honestly, he could have at least tried a little harder. As such, Paul swept the floor with him and explained that there's a difference between supporting ideas and supporting policies. Additionally, they cut to commercial afterward, so Paul got the last word. Needless to say it was pretty awesome.
Ore_Ele
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9/7/2011 7:54:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 7:51:41 PM, jat93 wrote:
For the record, this was just discussed in the debate.
Paul owned Perry, flat out. It went exactly as everyone predicted: Perry brings it up, and ALL he says is that Paul wrote a letter expressing discontent with Republicans because of Reagan. Honestly, he could have at least tried a little harder. As such, Paul swept the floor with him and explained that there's a difference between supporting ideas and supporting policies. Additionally, they cut to commercial afterward, so Paul got the last word. Needless to say it was pretty awesome.

It is somewhat comical. I cannot actually watch the debate, but on another forum, I'm listening to other republican, non-paul supporters, say the exact opposite, that Perry trounced Paul.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
jat93
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9/7/2011 8:03:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 7:54:01 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/7/2011 7:51:41 PM, jat93 wrote:
For the record, this was just discussed in the debate.
Paul owned Perry, flat out. It went exactly as everyone predicted: Perry brings it up, and ALL he says is that Paul wrote a letter expressing discontent with Republicans because of Reagan. Honestly, he could have at least tried a little harder. As such, Paul swept the floor with him and explained that there's a difference between supporting ideas and supporting policies. Additionally, they cut to commercial afterward, so Paul got the last word. Needless to say it was pretty awesome.

It is somewhat comical. I cannot actually watch the debate, but on another forum, I'm listening to other republican, non-paul supporters, say the exact opposite, that Perry trounced Paul.

Then they're simply wrong. Not kidding. From a purely unbiased point of view, Ron Paul hit Perry with a barrage of facts. Perry didn't, case closed. I'm surprised anyone could think "Perry trounced Paul." In fact this is the best Ron Paul has been in any debate I've seen.
GeoLaureate8
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9/7/2011 8:06:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 7:54:01 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/7/2011 7:51:41 PM, jat93 wrote:
For the record, this was just discussed in the debate.
Paul owned Perry, flat out. It went exactly as everyone predicted: Perry brings it up, and ALL he says is that Paul wrote a letter expressing discontent with Republicans because of Reagan. Honestly, he could have at least tried a little harder. As such, Paul swept the floor with him and explained that there's a difference between supporting ideas and supporting policies. Additionally, they cut to commercial afterward, so Paul got the last word. Needless to say it was pretty awesome.

It is somewhat comical. I cannot actually watch the debate, but on another forum, I'm listening to other republican, non-paul supporters, say the exact opposite, that Perry trounced Paul.

Yeah, and they're retarded. Objectively Paul trounced Perry. Perry made a 10-word remark noting Paul's letter to Reagan. Paul gave a clear rebuttal to that remark. Perry put forth no arguments at all. Ron Paul used Perry's jab to make a point which jat93 said and that's that there's a difference between supporting ideas and supporting policies.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
jat93
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9/7/2011 11:48:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Looks like Perry's pissed at Paul challenging him - he lays hands on him and seems to be rebuking him for something in a picture taken after the debate. http://i305.photobucket.com...
jat93
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9/7/2011 11:49:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Looks like Perry's pissed at Paul challenging him - he lays hands on him and seems to be rebuking him for something in a picture taken after the debate. http://i305.photobucket.com...

wtf is up with that?
Wnope
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9/8/2011 12:32:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/7/2011 11:49:28 PM, jat93 wrote:
Looks like Perry's pissed at Paul challenging him - he lays hands on him and seems to be rebuking him for something in a picture taken after the debate. http://i305.photobucket.com...

wtf is up with that?

He was pointing to Paul's bad hairdo.
jat93
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9/8/2011 1:55:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/8/2011 12:32:06 AM, Wnope wrote:
At 9/7/2011 11:49:28 PM, jat93 wrote:
Looks like Perry's pissed at Paul challenging him - he lays hands on him and seems to be rebuking him for something in a picture taken after the debate. http://i305.photobucket.com...

wtf is up with that?

He was pointing to Paul's bad hairdo.

Well, if that's the case, Perry must have had a really big problem with Paul's hairdo...