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The Bell Curve (the Book)

jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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9/15/2011 5:07:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I just finished re-reading Charles Murray's and Richard Hernstein's The Bell Curve.

I thought that they were correct on these things:

1) IQ is significantly Genetic
2) IQ does Measure a relevant thing
3) IQ plays a heavy role in determing outcomes (crime, income, etc.)
4) IQ differences between groups are both genetic and environmental (they only implied this one)
5) This means that many social programs, meant to increase the lot of the disadvantaged, are somewhat useless
6) Poverty is more genetic than environmental...
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/15/2011 5:10:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reading a whole book on one particular stance will certainly give the impression that its irrefutably correct. Try reading a book of equal length on the opposite stance and then take another look at the issue.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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9/15/2011 5:16:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/15/2011 5:10:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
Reading a whole book on one particular stance will certainly give the impression that its irrefutably correct. Try reading a book of equal length on the opposite stance and then take another look at the issue.

These are just my personal conclusions...
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/15/2011 5:20:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/15/2011 5:16:38 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 9/15/2011 5:10:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
Reading a whole book on one particular stance will certainly give the impression that its irrefutably correct. Try reading a book of equal length on the opposite stance and then take another look at the issue.

These are just my personal conclusions...

Personal conclusions under the influence of the massive onslaught of one-sided arguments you call a "book". Read 2 books, where the other prevents the opposite case, and then all is well.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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9/15/2011 5:20:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Presents* the opposite case....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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9/15/2011 5:34:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's a landmark book. I started reading it at home but never got finished, I'll have to get it up to school sometime. What good books are there that successfully rebut it? IQ is well acknowledged in the scientific community to be significantly heritable.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
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9/15/2011 5:43:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/15/2011 5:20:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/15/2011 5:16:38 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 9/15/2011 5:10:02 PM, 000ike wrote:
Reading a whole book on one particular stance will certainly give the impression that its irrefutably correct. Try reading a book of equal length on the opposite stance and then take another look at the issue.

These are just my personal conclusions...

Personal conclusions under the influence of the massive onslaught of one-sided arguments you call a "book". Read 2 books, where the other prevents the opposite case, and then all is well.

I have to go with OMG on this. Even though I haven't read a full opposing book. I have read many articles, cases, etc. They aren't very strong...

Science is in agreement that IQ is largely heritable... There are huge correlations with Income, etc...

And, honestly, there is no reason to believe that group differences arent somewhat genetic too...

These are my conclusions, but a vast majority of scientists happen to agree with me as well...
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/16/2011 10:16:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/15/2011 5:20:06 PM, 000ike wrote:

Personal conclusions under the influence of the massive onslaught of one-sided arguments you call a "book". Read 2 books, where the other prevents the opposite case, and then all is well.

Okay, what books?