Total Posts:48|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Collapse of America

Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 3:52:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.
2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole
3. Perhaps
4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.
5. ??. Yes they are.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:03:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:52:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...


1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.

No it's not and no a world war won't fix it.

2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole

No, capitalism is one of the exact reasons why things are the way they are.

3. Perhaps
4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.

Absolutely not. All evidence is against your assumption.

5. ??. Yes they are.

No. Local economies don't even exist anymore for the most part. The average American meal comes from 1500 miles away on average from wherever it is eaten. A high percentage of products purchased and consumed in America are not made locally.

I will debate you on any of these 5 points. That challenge stands for anyone else as well.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:03:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:52:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...


1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.
2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole
3. Perhaps
4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.
5. ??. Yes they are.

Nuclear warheads are quite secure so the likelihood of a terrorist obtaining a nuclear warhead are incredibly low. Also, a national leader would be quite foolish to ever launch a nuclear weapon. The amount of nuclear warheads fired has an indirect relationship with the amount of nuclear warheads around.

I will state that #3 is more or less right. At least, once it comes to the federal government. The federal government has many insolvent programs like medicare and social security that government officials do not seem to be responding to, as well as a huge debt burden. Maybe people will come to their senses, but right now the financial situation in the US government is not good which can lead to many problems like whats happening in Greece.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:04:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:52:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...


1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.
2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole
3. Perhaps
4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.
5. ??. Yes they are.

Shoot me a debate about any of them except 3 and 4.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:22:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:03:14 PM, Tiel wrote:

1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.

No it's not and no a world war won't fix it.

I don't know what the water supply shortage is about, however I do not believe it something that technology cannot fix.

2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole

No, capitalism is one of the exact reasons why things are the way they are.

Socialism is a bigger failure then capitalism. We are not a capitalist society, but a mixed economy. It's hard to pin down exactly what caused the financial crisis, and it could but a multitude of factors, but its intellectually dishonest to just blame it on capitalism when there were many areas the government had its hand on, namely Freddie & Fannie Mac which are government entities that fueled the housing bubble.

4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.

Absolutely not. All evidence is against your assumption.

As resources depreciate, prices increases which cause people to look for other alternative sources. Nuclear energy and Green energy can easily replace fossil fuels.

5. ??. Yes they are.

No. Local economies don't even exist anymore for the most part. The average American meal comes from 1500 miles away on average from wherever it is eaten. A high percentage of products purchased and consumed in America are not made locally.

Why is this bad? Comparative advantages increases gross domestic production.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:23:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you know how many times people tried to predict the collapse of the Roman Empire? Please that empire isn't going away anytime soon...............oh wait.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:26:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:23:18 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you know how many times people tried to predict the collapse of the Roman Empire? Please that empire isn't going away anytime soon...............oh wait.

Fail. sorry kermit but thats a really bad comparison, the Roman Empire united lasted for nearly 500 years, and other areas of it lasted for another thousand. The U.S is about 200 years old.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:28:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Obvious rhetoric/propaganda is obvious.

Of course, this is not an afront on America, which I think can and will pull through, so long as we pull our heads out of our @sses. But you seem to be using the reasoning that "hey, we've done it before, we'll do it again." And actually, while I find it VERY disrespectful to disrepect other countries (except for the French), you'd have to be a fool to not recognize how other people in the world feel about us.

We're just another country, after all...
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:32:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:26:26 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:23:18 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you know how many times people tried to predict the collapse of the Roman Empire? Please that empire isn't going away anytime soon...............oh wait.


Fail. sorry kermit but thats a really bad comparison, the Roman Empire united lasted for nearly 500 years, and other areas of it lasted for another thousand. The U.S is about 200 years old.

So apparently nations have expiration dates on them? Hmmm....Confederacy of the United States only lasted for 4 years. So much for the fixed expiration dates.

You do realize that the comparison was designed to show that you committed a massive fallacy, namely argument ad populum. You can nitpick at the analogies, but it does not change the fact that your reasoning is fallacious.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:34:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:28:28 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Obvious rhetoric/propaganda is obvious.

Of course, this is not an afront on America, which I think can and will pull through, so long as we pull our heads out of our @sses. But you seem to be using the reasoning that "hey, we've done it before, we'll do it again." And actually, while I find it VERY disrespectful to disrepect other countries (except for the French), you'd have to be a fool to not recognize how other people in the world feel about us.

We're just another country, after all...

Its a pet peeve of mine when people try to make things that obviously are not disrespectful into something disrespectful for the hell of it, using a convoluted string of thought to justify the conclusion.

People have a cynical bias about life in general. If given two claims: 9/11 is a government conspiracy & 9/11 is a terrorist attack, both having no proof or evidence, people are more inclined to believe the former simply because of the negativity, which we unhealthily equate to reality....without just cause.

The people in Libya for instance and Egypt during their overhaul looked to the U.S for support. Now I'm not saying EVERYONE likes the U.S, but a lot of people do. Its also a myth that the French hate Americans.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:35:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:26:26 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:23:18 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you know how many times people tried to predict the collapse of the Roman Empire? Please that empire isn't going away anytime soon...............oh wait.


Fail. sorry kermit but thats a really bad comparison, the Roman Empire united lasted for nearly 500 years, and other areas of it lasted for another thousand. The U.S is about 200 years old.

I agree with 000ike that the US isn't going to collapse but this was a bad refutation of the Roman Empire analogy. It implies that in the far future after another 500 years, the US might collapse. That isn't true. The reason is that the Roman Empire existed through conquering different parts of the world. Now, the entire world is divided into different countries. The US is a modern democracy. It is certainly here to stay for a lot more than just another 1000 years.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:37:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:34:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:28:28 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Obvious rhetoric/propaganda is obvious.

Of course, this is not an afront on America, which I think can and will pull through, so long as we pull our heads out of our @sses. But you seem to be using the reasoning that "hey, we've done it before, we'll do it again." And actually, while I find it VERY disrespectful to disrepect other countries (except for the French), you'd have to be a fool to not recognize how other people in the world feel about us.

We're just another country, after all...

Its a pet peeve of mine when people try to make things that obviously are not disrespectful into something disrespectful for the hell of it, using a convoluted string of thought to justify the conclusion.

People have a cynical bias about life in general. If given two claims: 9/11 is a government conspiracy & 9/11 is a terrorist attack, both having no proof or evidence, people are more inclined to believe the former simply because of the negativity, which we unhealthily equate to reality....without just cause.

The people in Libya for instance and Egypt during their overhaul looked to the U.S for support. Now I'm not saying EVERYONE likes the U.S, but a lot of people do. Its also a myth that the French hate Americans.

The point I'm making is simply that we're just another country--we may be classified as a superpower, but we aren't some special, infallible state.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:40:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:37:02 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:34:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:28:28 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Obvious rhetoric/propaganda is obvious.

Of course, this is not an afront on America, which I think can and will pull through, so long as we pull our heads out of our @sses. But you seem to be using the reasoning that "hey, we've done it before, we'll do it again." And actually, while I find it VERY disrespectful to disrepect other countries (except for the French), you'd have to be a fool to not recognize how other people in the world feel about us.

We're just another country, after all...

Its a pet peeve of mine when people try to make things that obviously are not disrespectful into something disrespectful for the hell of it, using a convoluted string of thought to justify the conclusion.

People have a cynical bias about life in general. If given two claims: 9/11 is a government conspiracy & 9/11 is a terrorist attack, both having no proof or evidence, people are more inclined to believe the former simply because of the negativity, which we unhealthily equate to reality....without just cause.

The people in Libya for instance and Egypt during their overhaul looked to the U.S for support. Now I'm not saying EVERYONE likes the U.S, but a lot of people do. Its also a myth that the French hate Americans.

The point I'm making is simply that we're just another country--we may be classified as a superpower, but we aren't some special, infallible state.

Also, I find the idea of patriotism/nationalism to be very silly.

I'm very happy I was born here, but I don't think it's the best country in the world.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:41:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:03:54 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/17/2011 3:52:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...


1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.
2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole
3. Perhaps
4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.
5. ??. Yes they are.

Nuclear warheads are quite secure so the likelihood of a terrorist obtaining a nuclear warhead are incredibly low. Also, a national leader would be quite foolish to ever launch a nuclear weapon. The amount of nuclear warheads fired has an indirect relationship with the amount of nuclear warheads around.

I will state that #3 is more or less right. At least, once it comes to the federal government. The federal government has many insolvent programs like medicare and social security that government officials do not seem to be responding to, as well as a huge debt burden. Maybe people will come to their senses, but right now the financial situation in the US government is not good which can lead to many problems like whats happening in Greece.

The fuel to make nuclear warheads is not that difficult to steal by terrorists. They talk about it in the video. 500,000 people a year are caught trying to steal the fuel in Russia alone. Who knows how much has slipped through the cracks. The threat of a nuclear strike is from terrorists, not national leaders. Terrorists can care less about show they kill. If they get the means they will strike. This is a probable scenario that even the US government admits.

I agree with you about the financial situation. It's grim at best.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:42:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

You keep telling yourself that Ike. It's that same mentality that's going to put us under.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:45:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:40:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Also, I find the idea of patriotism/nationalism to be very silly.

I'm very happy I was born here, but I don't think it's the best country in the world.

How does that make it silly? People have a need for pride in what they do, where they are from, and who they are. This often manifests in patriotism and nationalism, which also creates a sense of happiness and encouragement that generally drives the nation into the productive and aspiring mode of optimism and ascension.

If you dislike patriotism, that's all good and well, but what makes it so silly, apart from when people go to extremes?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:45:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Obviously none of you have watched the video.

Watch the video.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:46:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:35:52 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:26:26 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:23:18 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:20:32 PM, 000ike wrote:
Do you know how many times people throughout history have tried to predict the collapse of America? Please. This is the same country that pulled itself out of a devastating depression, brought state mutiny to a halt and resealed its union, the same nation that is so respected all over the world, and set the precedent for worldwide democracy. This country isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you know how many times people tried to predict the collapse of the Roman Empire? Please that empire isn't going away anytime soon...............oh wait.


Fail. sorry kermit but thats a really bad comparison, the Roman Empire united lasted for nearly 500 years, and other areas of it lasted for another thousand. The U.S is about 200 years old.

I agree with 000ike that the US isn't going to collapse but this was a bad refutation of the Roman Empire analogy. It implies that in the far future after another 500 years, the US might collapse. That isn't true. The reason is that the Roman Empire existed through conquering different parts of the world. Now, the entire world is divided into different countries. The US is a modern democracy. It is certainly here to stay for a lot more than just another 1000 years.

I'm not certain whether the US will collapse. I think it a possibility, but its always a possibility. The future uncertain. However, 000like's reasoning was just fallacious so I had to call him out.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:48:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:45:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:40:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Also, I find the idea of patriotism/nationalism to be very silly.

I'm very happy I was born here, but I don't think it's the best country in the world.

How does that make it silly? People have a need for pride in what they do, where they are from, and who they are. This often manifests in patriotism and nationalism, which also creates a sense of happiness and encouragement that generally drives the nation into the productive and aspiring mode of optimism and ascension.

If you dislike patriotism, that's all good and well, but what makes it so silly, apart from when people go to extremes?

The whole notion of patriotism is just odd--the mentality that "X Country is the best country. I'm proud to be an X" even though you had absolutely no control over where you were born.

I feel the same way about LGBT pride, racial pride, and gender pride.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:49:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Help me understand why this is unique to America, why have you singled out America? I could make a case that these conditions exist for Europe, and i bet i could even make it stick with China.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:51:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:48:57 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:45:16 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:40:07 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Also, I find the idea of patriotism/nationalism to be very silly.

I'm very happy I was born here, but I don't think it's the best country in the world.

How does that make it silly? People have a need for pride in what they do, where they are from, and who they are. This often manifests in patriotism and nationalism, which also creates a sense of happiness and encouragement that generally drives the nation into the productive and aspiring mode of optimism and ascension.

If you dislike patriotism, that's all good and well, but what makes it so silly, apart from when people go to extremes?

The whole notion of patriotism is just odd--the mentality that "X Country is the best country. I'm proud to be an X" even though you had absolutely no control over where you were born.

I feel the same way about LGBT pride, racial pride, and gender pride.

Didn't I just get done explaining why people do that? Its just a human need to relish in one's origin. It boost self-esteem for many people and is encouraging for many people. Actually, when I think about it, its silly that you find this silly.

Patriotism also isn't necessarily always one country being better than another, its sometimes just one country being great.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:58:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:22:12 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:03:14 PM, Tiel wrote:

1. Water is fine. If not, a good old fashioned world war should fix that.

No it's not and no a world war won't fix it.

I don't know what the water supply shortage is about, however I do not believe it something that technology cannot fix.

Technology can't fix it. Water is the essence of everything that lives on earth. We are destroying the source of life. Technology is only around because people are alive to build it. The water quality is diminishing. In many parts of the world water life isn't even safe to eat anymore. It effects everything going right on up the food chain. Without clean water...billions of people will die and society will collapse. Watch the video when you get some time.


2. The economy fluctuates wildly but the beauty of capitalism is that it always digs itself out of the hole

No, capitalism is one of the exact reasons why things are the way they are.

Socialism is a bigger failure then capitalism. We are not a capitalist society, but a mixed economy. It's hard to pin down exactly what caused the financial crisis, and it could but a multitude of factors, but its intellectually dishonest to just blame it on capitalism when there were many areas the government had its hand on, namely Freddie & Fannie Mac which are government entities that fueled the housing bubble.

It's the combination of multiple things just as you said, but many experts point at capitalism as being one of the major contributors.



4. Fossil fuels will still fuel us for the next 400-500 years.

Absolutely not. All evidence is against your assumption.

As resources depreciate, prices increases which cause people to look for other alternative sources. Nuclear energy and Green energy can easily replace fossil fuels.

Maybe, but that is not proven yet. Their are many other energy options, but there are doubts as to if the world fossil fuels built can ever be directly replaced. It is the cheapest most powerful energy source known to man. America currently uses about 20 million barrels of oil a day, yet it only produces 5 million barrels a day. The rest is imported. In 1970 we hit peak oil in America at 10 million barrels a day. Do the math.


5. ??. Yes they are.

No. Local economies don't even exist anymore for the most part. The average American meal comes from 1500 miles away on average from wherever it is eaten. A high percentage of products purchased and consumed in America are not made locally.

Why is this bad? Comparative advantages increases gross domestic production.

Why is it bad? You calculations for comparative advantage are misplaced. The good does not out way the bad. The system is not healthy. Watch the video.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:59:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:49:06 PM, innomen wrote:
At 9/17/2011 3:42:54 PM, Tiel wrote:
To many experts the downfall of America is inevitable if we continue on our current path. Here are some of the reasons why.

1.) Water quality and quantity levels are diminishing worldwide.

2.) The American financial system is not sustainable. It's a ponzi scheme.

3.) Terrorist nuclear attacks are more probable than ever before.

4.) Peak oil. The nation has been built on oil and the population has grown because of oil. America had it's time of peak oil back in the early 70's. The world is at peak oil right now. The population that has grown from oil usage may not be sustainable in the future. As there may not be a direct replacement for fossil fuels.

5.) Local economies are not being developed or utilized.

This is the full documentary on the topic from the History Channel. I only want to respond to people who have watched it.

Video: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Help me understand why this is unique to America, why have you singled out America? I could make a case that these conditions exist for Europe, and i bet i could even make it stick with China.

You are correct, it's a world wide problem as well. It's talked about in the video.

Also, I did not single out anything. The video is about the topic.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 4:59:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't think that you can conclude that America must fall because empires before it have fallen. We wouldn't be able to have America today if the previous empires hadn't fallen. Those empires may have not been possible if the empires before them had not fallen.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 5:02:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 4:58:11 PM, Tiel wrote:
It's the combination of multiple things just as you said, but many experts point at capitalism as being one of the major contributors.

Many experts are wrong about many things. Do you have any evidence?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 5:03:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Watch the video people.

Almost everything you are talking about is in the video. It's a good watch and it is worth your time.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 5:03:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 9/17/2011 5:02:39 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 9/17/2011 4:58:11 PM, Tiel wrote:
It's the combination of multiple things just as you said, but many experts point at capitalism as being one of the major contributors.

Many experts are wrong about many things. Do you have any evidence?

The scientific evidence is out there everywhere. Watch the video.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/17/2011 5:17:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@Tiel:

Where is that debate challenge that you said you'd give me?
Afraid that your "infallible" scientific evidence will be ruined?

Come on. Anything except 3 and 4 cause i'm not experienced in those subjects.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."