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Do you think states have a right to secede?

DanT
Posts: 5,693
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10/1/2011 2:51:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I thought I would start a discussion about it.
(not about the civil war, there was secession attempts before that even in the north)

Also if you have time check out my debate, and don't bother reading the comments, it was spammed to hell by some troll.
http://www.debate.org...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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10/1/2011 11:52:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think the have the right ONLY if there were some sort of true detriment to the people of that states' human rights by the government (i.e, the situation with our 13 colonies' declaration). But, taking into account the checks and balances system, etc, that would rarely, if ever, happen.

So, short answer: No, but yes in very rare cases.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/2/2011 12:27:59 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The states do have the right by the constitution....

But they should not, under any condition. They are not designed to and do not have the power to. should the Civil war happen again today, there would still be destruction only to end in failure to succeed again.

If there ever rose a time when the US became such an oppressive government or whatever other reason that made succession from it a good idea then level of corruption or oppression would likely be very similar on a state level. I think if it was time to succeed then I couldn't just go to the Va house of rep and the Va senet and motion for succession. I think I would have to find those in support of taking care of ourselves and "abandoning allegiance to the flag" of the US and go secure what we can in the mountains, drawing new borderlines, establishing a new government from scratch.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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10/2/2011 12:41:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/2/2011 12:27:59 AM, Marauder wrote:
The states do have the right by the constitution....

But they should not, under any condition. They are not designed to and do not have the power to. should the Civil war happen again today, there would still be destruction only to end in failure to succeed again.

If there ever rose a time when the US became such an oppressive government or whatever other reason that made succession from it a good idea then level of corruption or oppression would likely be very similar on a state level. I think if it was time to succeed then I couldn't just go to the Va house of rep and the Va senet and motion for succession. I think I would have to find those in support of taking care of ourselves and "abandoning allegiance to the flag" of the US and go secure what we can in the mountains, drawing new borderlines, establishing a new government from scratch.

Not talking about a civil war. I'm talking about secession

In the 1830s, a portion of New Hampshire called the Republic of Indian Stream declared its independence because bothe the US and British Canada was taxing them. The Republic of Indian Stream was Independent for 3 whole years before the New Hampshire Militia took control of them again.

As recent as 2001, the communities of Newington and Rye considered seceding from New Hampshire, due to the property tax being enacted by the State. They failled because only only 52 of Newington' s 700+ residents and 100 of Rye's 5,000 residents was willing to sign the petition.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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10/2/2011 11:03:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/2/2011 12:41:58 AM, DanT wrote:
At 10/2/2011 12:27:59 AM, Marauder wrote:
The states do have the right by the constitution....

But they should not, under any condition. They are not designed to and do not have the power to. should the Civil war happen again today, there would still be destruction only to end in failure to succeed again.

If there ever rose a time when the US became such an oppressive government or whatever other reason that made succession from it a good idea then level of corruption or oppression would likely be very similar on a state level. I think if it was time to succeed then I couldn't just go to the Va house of rep and the Va senet and motion for succession. I think I would have to find those in support of taking care of ourselves and "abandoning allegiance to the flag" of the US and go secure what we can in the mountains, drawing new borderlines, establishing a new government from scratch.

Not talking about a civil war. I'm talking about secession

In the 1830s, a portion of New Hampshire called the Republic of Indian Stream declared its independence because bothe the US and British Canada was taxing them. The Republic of Indian Stream was Independent for 3 whole years before the New Hampshire Militia took control of them again.

As recent as 2001, the communities of Newington and Rye considered seceding from New Hampshire, due to the property tax being enacted by the State. They failled because only only 52 of Newington' s 700+ residents and 100 of Rye's 5,000 residents was willing to sign the petition.

The southern cottenbelt states where talking about succession back then too. It turned into war.

although the examples you've given do seem like on a county level rather than state. In the Florida Keys that was kinda of tried too and ultimately the 'Conch Republic' is still part of the U.S. http://www.conchrepublic.com...

But by the same reasons I dont think the states should not succeed (no power to do so) smaller more local succession from country and state have even less power to back up rebelling from the U.S.

The only thing making it more pragmatic for the local attempt at succession from the U.S. that at a state level would not have is they are forgettable. and this largely just applies to the border states.

also the role of money can make it workable for regions wanting to break away I think. like if California wanted to leave all by itself I don't think our country would fight to make them stay in the union. I think congress would make the decision to let them go and take there share of the national debt with them.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.