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White Nationalism and Libertarianism

jimtimmy
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10/6/2011 9:57:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I used to be a White Nationalist, but now I am a Libertarian (I was a Neoconservative a bit in between)...

I have noticed that many other Libertarians are former White Nationalists as well.

I was wondering why this might be?
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darkkermit
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10/6/2011 9:59:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wtf? This is the first time I've ever heard of this. Many libertarians used to be liberal but I thought white nationalist were a thing of the past.
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Wnope
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10/6/2011 10:07:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
White nationalists tend to become "libertarian" for the same reason segregationalists became "states rights" advocates. The worldview can be used to replicate results wanted by the White Nationalists.

For instance, Libertarians generally disagree with applying the interstate commerce clause to individual businesses acting within the state. However, the interstate commerce clause and fourteenth amendment were the constitutional rationalizations behind the federal governments ability to stop segregation in the South (Civil Rights Act).

Rand Paul ran across this problem. His libertarian views included saying the commerce clause was incorrectly applied to businesses acting within a state. An interviewer pointed out that, if Rand Paul were legislating at the time, he would be against the Civil Rights Act. Bit of a cheap shot, if you ask me.

Libertarianism is a nice cover for white nationalism. But so is neo-conservatism if your goal is to keep non-whites out of the country (illegal immigration).
Joseph_Mengele
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10/6/2011 10:15:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 9:57:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I used to be a White Nationalist, but now I am a Libertarian (I was a Neoconservative a bit in between)...

I have noticed that many other Libertarians are former White Nationalists as well.

I was wondering why this might be?

I'm currently a white nationalist and embrace a lot of libertarian ideas.
darkkermit
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10/6/2011 10:17:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well Rand Paul was in favor of most of the civil rights amendment. I think Rand Paul was wrong politically to speak out against it. It's also hypocritical to state that he believes that individuals should have the right to do what they want with their property, but he believes in entitlements (he wants entitlement reform, not entitlement removal).

However, the notation that libertarians are white separatists doesn't explain why Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two libertarian thinkers. I actually remember one of them actually defended Rand Paul's view.
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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10/6/2011 10:23:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 9:57:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I used to be a White Nationalist, but now I am a Libertarian (I was a Neoconservative a bit in between)...

Like your other topic when you claimed to go from conservatism to anarchism?


I have noticed that many other Libertarians are former White Nationalists as well.

Complete BS... Nationalism is Statist, just like socialism...

Most libertarians are former anarchists or former liberal conservatives, or even former social liberals.
It's a huge leap from nationalism to libertarianism.

I was wondering why this might be?

It's not true

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
jimtimmy
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10/6/2011 10:32:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:07:36 PM, Wnope wrote:
White nationalists tend to become "libertarian" for the same reason segregationalists became "states rights" advocates. The worldview can be used to replicate results wanted by the White Nationalists.

For instance, Libertarians generally disagree with applying the interstate commerce clause to individual businesses acting within the state. However, the interstate commerce clause and fourteenth amendment were the constitutional rationalizations behind the federal governments ability to stop segregation in the South (Civil Rights Act).

Rand Paul ran across this problem. His libertarian views included saying the commerce clause was incorrectly applied to businesses acting within a state. An interviewer pointed out that, if Rand Paul were legislating at the time, he would be against the Civil Rights Act. Bit of a cheap shot, if you ask me.

Libertarianism is a nice cover for white nationalism. But so is neo-conservatism if your goal is to keep non-whites out of the country (illegal immigration).

Ya, this is not at all right...
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jimtimmy
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10/6/2011 10:37:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Let me add why I think it is

First, It is NOT because Libertarianism is some cover for White Nationalism... That is retarded...

Here is a why I think this is so:

Whites are more likely than any other race to be raped in Prison... Why?

They lack solidarity. Blacks and Latinos, for example, do have solidarity...

This means that they are stronger as they go at it as a group

Whites Solidarity, unlike Black solidarity, is seen as racist (White Nationalists, like David Duke, are seen as horrible men... Black Nationalists, like Malcolm X, are supposed to be heroes...)

This keeps whites from gaining solidarity...

This allows many whites to look past these feuds and want to break down the entire prison (the prison, of course, is the state)
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jimtimmy
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10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening
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darkkermit
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10/6/2011 10:48:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To be fair, Malcolm X was living in times where blacks were oppressed severely so he had some justification. However, there's no real excuse for white separatism.
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DanT
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10/6/2011 10:49:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:23:45 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Yep here's the video:


What he is essentially saying is, "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ~ voltaire
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
darkkermit
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10/6/2011 10:54:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening

We actually never discussed malcolm x in my high school.
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jimtimmy
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10/6/2011 10:59:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:54:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening

We actually never discussed malcolm x in my high school.

We had to watch a video about how wonderful he was in mine...
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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10/6/2011 11:00:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:54:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening

We actually never discussed malcolm x in my high school.

My school too.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/6/2011 11:01:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:59:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:54:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening

We actually never discussed malcolm x in my high school.

We had to watch a video about how wonderful he was in mine...

sorry.....
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DanT
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10/6/2011 11:03:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:59:37 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:54:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening

We actually never discussed malcolm x in my high school.

We had to watch a video about how wonderful he was in mine...

They showed us videos promoting communism and labor unions.

This is a school that took a kid to the supreme court over a anti-Nazi patch and won.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/7/2011 6:52:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 9:57:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I used to be a White Nationalist, but now I am a Libertarian (I was a Neoconservative a bit in between)...

I have noticed that many other Libertarians are former White Nationalists as well.

I was wondering why this might be?

See my answer to your thread on anarchy.

It doesn't surprise me that you were a white nationalist since I've seen your blinkered approach to science when it come to race.

How many "race realists" weren't racist to begin with I wonder?
Ore_Ele
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10/7/2011 9:29:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:42:22 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:41:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Since when was Malcolm X ever a hero?

I think he was a horrible man... but we're supposed to see him as a hero...

Do you have any idea how well this man is treated in both public and private schools?

It really is sickening

Funny, going to a public school in Oregon, one would think we would have had some of the most liberally slanted education (it's school AND it's in a liberal state, that's just a double whammie), yet we learned of him in a negative light.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
jimtimmy
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10/7/2011 11:57:16 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 6:52:53 AM, feverish wrote:
At 10/6/2011 9:57:43 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I used to be a White Nationalist, but now I am a Libertarian (I was a Neoconservative a bit in between)...

I have noticed that many other Libertarians are former White Nationalists as well.

I was wondering why this might be?

See my answer to your thread on anarchy.

It doesn't surprise me that you were a white nationalist since I've seen your blinkered approach to science when it come to race.

How many "race realists" weren't racist to begin with I wonder?

Ya, i was a white nationalist for a short time... That means that you can ignore all science...

Im glad you thought this throough...
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Wnope
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10/7/2011 12:43:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:17:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well Rand Paul was in favor of most of the civil rights amendment. I think Rand Paul was wrong politically to speak out against it. It's also hypocritical to state that he believes that individuals should have the right to do what they want with their property, but he believes in entitlements (he wants entitlement reform, not entitlement removal).

However, the notation that libertarians are white separatists doesn't explain why Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two libertarian thinkers. I actually remember one of them actually defended Rand Paul's view.

Who said Libertarians are white separatists?

I said that libertarianism is a good cover for white separatists. Objectivism is good for narcissistic sociopaths looking to justify their behavior.

Paul has been outspoken against the part of the civil rights act that allowed the government to intervene with private businesses on the level of stopping discrimination.

His problem is that he is running as a conservative, not a libertarian, so he has to be more mainstream (hence entitlement reform, not abolishment).
Wnope
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10/7/2011 12:44:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/6/2011 10:17:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well Rand Paul was in favor of most of the civil rights amendment. I think Rand Paul was wrong politically to speak out against it. It's also hypocritical to state that he believes that individuals should have the right to do what they want with their property, but he believes in entitlements (he wants entitlement reform, not entitlement removal).

However, the notation that libertarians are white separatists doesn't explain why Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two libertarian thinkers. I actually remember one of them actually defended Rand Paul's view.

That's my point. Libertarians and white nationalists agree on this issue, so white nationalists can advocate while pretending their rationale isn't race-based.
feverish
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10/7/2011 12:46:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 11:57:16 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/7/2011 6:52:53 AM, feverish wrote:

It doesn't surprise me that you were a white nationalist since I've seen your blinkered approach to science when it come to race.

How many "race realists" weren't racist to begin with I wonder?

Ya, i was a white nationalist for a short time... That means that you can ignore all science...

Im glad you thought this throough...

Nice reducto absurd attempt man, so I ignore all science? You reject mainstream scientific evidence about how racial differencesare entirely superficial, and compare it to creationism!

In the mean time when Tomb called you out in the other thread you didn't have a source for any of your claims. It is your position that is the fringe one here in scientific terms, you who is the intellectual equal of an evolution denier, brainwashed by your beliefs.

Are we still on for ths debate in about a week anyway mate? I'm not sure exactly what to focus on. Here's some suggestions, my position on each should probably be obvious to you.

Differences between races are superficial.
Low IQ causes most of society's problems.
The racial gap in IQ is mostly genetic.

Any ideas?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/7/2011 12:51:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 12:44:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:17:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well Rand Paul was in favor of most of the civil rights amendment. I think Rand Paul was wrong politically to speak out against it. It's also hypocritical to state that he believes that individuals should have the right to do what they want with their property, but he believes in entitlements (he wants entitlement reform, not entitlement removal).

However, the notation that libertarians are white separatists doesn't explain why Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two libertarian thinkers. I actually remember one of them actually defended Rand Paul's view.

That's my point. Libertarians and white nationalists agree on this issue, so white nationalists can advocate while pretending their rationale isn't race-based.

Walter E. Williams and Thomas Sowell are black so they obviously aren't white separatists :/.
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jimtimmy
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10/7/2011 12:52:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 12:46:57 PM, feverish wrote:
At 10/7/2011 11:57:16 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/7/2011 6:52:53 AM, feverish wrote:

It doesn't surprise me that you were a white nationalist since I've seen your blinkered approach to science when it come to race.

How many "race realists" weren't racist to begin with I wonder?

Ya, i was a white nationalist for a short time... That means that you can ignore all science...

Im glad you thought this throough...

Nice reducto absurd attempt man, so I ignore all science? You reject mainstream scientific evidence about how racial differencesare entirely superficial, and compare it to creationism!

In the mean time when Tomb called you out in the other thread you didn't have a source for any of your claims. It is your position that is the fringe one here in scientific terms, you who is the intellectual equal of an evolution denier, brainwashed by your beliefs.

Are we still on for ths debate in about a week anyway mate? I'm not sure exactly what to focus on. Here's some suggestions, my position on each should probably be obvious to you.

Differences between races are superficial.
Low IQ causes most of society's problems.
The racial gap in IQ is mostly genetic.

Any ideas?

First, the idea that "mainstream scientific evidence" supports the absurd idea that racial IQ Differences are entirely genetic is hilarious and... absurdly wrong

And, yes, we are on for a debate

Which means we should probably hold off this discussion until then (where I will be ready and willing to provide plenty of sources and evidence)
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feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/7/2011 3:06:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 12:52:06 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/7/2011 12:46:57 PM, feverish wrote:

You reject mainstream scientific evidence about how racial differences are entirely superficial, and compare it to creationism!

In the mean time when Tomb called you out in the other thread you didn't have a source for any of your claims. It is your position that is the fringe one here in scientific terms, you who is the intellectual equal of an evolution denier, brainwashed by your beliefs.

Are we still on for ths debate in about a week anyway mate? I'm not sure exactly what to focus on. Here's some suggestions, my position on each should probably be obvious to you.

Differences between races are superficial.
Low IQ causes most of society's problems.
The racial gap in IQ is mostly genetic.

Any ideas?

: First, the idea that "mainstream scientific evidence" supports the absurd idea that racial IQ Differences are entirely genetic is hilarious and... absurdly wrong

LOL

Triple fail, strawman, typo and concession all in one!
jimtimmy
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10/7/2011 3:11:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 3:06:14 PM, feverish wrote:
At 10/7/2011 12:52:06 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/7/2011 12:46:57 PM, feverish wrote:

You reject mainstream scientific evidence about how racial differences are entirely superficial, and compare it to creationism!

In the mean time when Tomb called you out in the other thread you didn't have a source for any of your claims. It is your position that is the fringe one here in scientific terms, you who is the intellectual equal of an evolution denier, brainwashed by your beliefs.

Are we still on for ths debate in about a week anyway mate? I'm not sure exactly what to focus on. Here's some suggestions, my position on each should probably be obvious to you.

Differences between races are superficial.
Low IQ causes most of society's problems.
The racial gap in IQ is mostly genetic.

Any ideas?

: First, the idea that "mainstream scientific evidence" supports the absurd idea that racial IQ Differences are entirely genetic is hilarious and... absurdly wrong

LOL

Triple fail, strawman, typo and concession all in one!

I get it... The fact that I made a typo alters scientific reality...

Again, good job thinking this through
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feverish
Posts: 2,716
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10/7/2011 3:39:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 3:11:55 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/7/2011 3:06:14 PM, feverish wrote:
At 10/7/2011 12:52:06 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/7/2011 12:46:57 PM, feverish wrote:

You reject mainstream scientific evidence about how racial differences are entirely superficial, and compare it to creationism!

In the mean time when Tomb called you out in the other thread you didn't have a source for any of your claims. It is your position that is the fringe one here in scientific terms, you who is the intellectual equal of an evolution denier, brainwashed by your beliefs.

Are we still on for ths debate in about a week anyway mate? I'm not sure exactly what to focus on. Here's some suggestions, my position on each should probably be obvious to you.

Differences between races are superficial.
Low IQ causes most of society's problems.
The racial gap in IQ is mostly genetic.

Any ideas?

: First, the idea that "mainstream scientific evidence" supports the absurd idea that racial IQ Differences are entirely genetic is hilarious and... absurdly wrong

LOL

Triple fail, strawman, typo and concession all in one!

I get it... The fact that I made a typo alters scientific reality...

Again, good job thinking this through

You're a funny guy Jim. So, any preference on the topic or even the actual resolution of our upcoming debate? Or shall I just choose?
Wnope
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10/7/2011 4:41:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/7/2011 12:51:05 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/7/2011 12:44:12 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 10/6/2011 10:17:39 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well Rand Paul was in favor of most of the civil rights amendment. I think Rand Paul was wrong politically to speak out against it. It's also hypocritical to state that he believes that individuals should have the right to do what they want with their property, but he believes in entitlements (he wants entitlement reform, not entitlement removal).

However, the notation that libertarians are white separatists doesn't explain why Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two libertarian thinkers. I actually remember one of them actually defended Rand Paul's view.

That's my point. Libertarians and white nationalists agree on this issue, so white nationalists can advocate while pretending their rationale isn't race-based.

Walter E. Williams and Thomas Sowell are black so they obviously aren't white separatists :/.

At what point did I say all libertarians were nationalists?

I said it's a good cover for white nationalists just like "states rights" was a cover for segregationalists.

Were there states rights advocates who hated segregation? Sure.