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Is Obama a Warrior for the Middle Class?

jimtimmy
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10/8/2011 11:39:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I say no.

The state has always been biased against the middle. Afterall, it gives transfer programs to the poor and subsidies and regulations for the rich (yes, regulations help the rich).

The middle class would benefit without a state.

And, of course, few have expanded the state as much as Obama has.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/8/2011 11:44:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:39:42 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I say no.

The state has always been biased against the middle. Afterall, it gives transfer programs to the poor and subsidies and regulations for the rich (yes, regulations help the rich).

The middle class would benefit without a state.

And, of course, few have expanded the state as much as Obama has.

Programs are designed to help the middle class the most, since they represent the majority. The rich are expendable and the poor rarely vote. Really, listening to political speeches make me puke so much because they always say "small business owners" and "the middle class". The middle class is struggling, blah blah blah. It's a great way to infatuates their own inflated ego of themselves that they deserve more then they have.
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CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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10/8/2011 11:47:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It must suck to have so many political opinions whilst being unable to vote.

Why don't you do something more productive, like make a macaroni picture of Barrack HUSSEIN Obama eating babies. That'll probably get you more attention from people who just want their views to be reinforced through propaganda than posting here.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
jimtimmy
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10/8/2011 11:47:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:44:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/8/2011 11:39:42 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
I say no.

The state has always been biased against the middle. Afterall, it gives transfer programs to the poor and subsidies and regulations for the rich (yes, regulations help the rich).

The middle class would benefit without a state.

And, of course, few have expanded the state as much as Obama has.



Programs are designed to help the middle class the most, since they represent the majority. The rich are expendable and the poor rarely vote. Really, listening to political speeches make me puke so much because they always say "small business owners" and "the middle class". The middle class is struggling, blah blah blah. It's a great way to infatuates their own inflated ego of themselves that they deserve more then they have.

Sure, but regulations ARE written by the rich and for the rich. That is why it is such bull sh!t for these statists to talk about caring about anyone but the rich...
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jimtimmy
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10/8/2011 11:49:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:47:00 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It must suck to have so many political opinions whilst being unable to vote.

Why don't you do something more productive, like make a macaroni picture of Barrack HUSSEIN Obama eating babies. That'll probably get you more attention from people who just want their views to be reinforced through propaganda than posting here.

Why?

So I can vote to violently impose my will on everyone else?

I would rather post here
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/8/2011 11:54:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:47:48 PM, jimtimmy wrote:

Sure, but regulations ARE written by the rich and for the rich. That is why it is such bull sh!t for these statists to talk about caring about anyone but the rich...

It's impossible to tell which regulations are written to create barriers to entry and which regulations are created for legitimate purposes.

Regulating the environment is good because you don't want pollution. Same with anti-fraud laws, antitrust laws, etc. There are ways to manipulate the free market so that one can profit without creating any real value through deceptive practices, externalities and trying to capture the market.

If all regulations were designed exclusively to help the rich, we would expect regulated economies to have a great economic inequality disparity and those without regulations to have closer economic equality. The data does not suggest otherwise, since European nations with regulated economies have high levels of economic equality.
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CosmicAlfonzo
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10/8/2011 11:54:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The poor rarely vote because they've already given up hope.

The middle class be rich folks to us. Seriously, their fuggin kids have ipods.

The worst thing about it is that they all b!tch about how poor they are while living in nicely furnished homes while eating REAL meat EVERY day.

Seriously, nigga, you ain't poor. You live better than nobility did back in the days of tea and wigs.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
CosmicAlfonzo
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10/8/2011 11:57:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:49:24 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/8/2011 11:47:00 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
It must suck to have so many political opinions whilst being unable to vote.

Why don't you do something more productive, like make a macaroni picture of Barrack HUSSEIN Obama eating babies. That'll probably get you more attention from people who just want their views to be reinforced through propaganda than posting here.

Why?

So I can vote to violently impose my will on everyone else?

I would rather post here

You are missing the point. Macaroni pictures would get you more attention.

Sh!t, post it on reddit or digg, I guarantee you'll get some attention. For an even bigger effect, lie and say your 5 year old schnauzer made it.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/8/2011 11:58:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:54:55 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
The poor rarely vote because they've already given up hope.

The middle class be rich folks to us. Seriously, their fuggin kids have ipods.

The worst thing about it is that they all b!tch about how poor they are while living in nicely furnished homes while eating REAL meat EVERY day.

Seriously, nigga, you ain't poor. You live better than nobility did back in the days of tea and wigs.

Your my hero. Yep, the middle class are b*tches.
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jimtimmy
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10/9/2011 12:00:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/8/2011 11:54:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/8/2011 11:47:48 PM, jimtimmy wrote:

Sure, but regulations ARE written by the rich and for the rich. That is why it is such bull sh!t for these statists to talk about caring about anyone but the rich...

It's impossible to tell which regulations are written to create barriers to entry and which regulations are created for legitimate purposes.

Regulating the environment is good because you don't want pollution. Same with anti-fraud laws, antitrust laws, etc. There are ways to manipulate the free market so that one can profit without creating any real value through deceptive practices, externalities and trying to capture the market.

If all regulations were designed exclusively to help the rich, we would expect regulated economies to have a great economic inequality disparity and those without regulations to have closer economic equality. The data does not suggest otherwise, since European nations with regulated economies have high levels of economic equality.

1.) Pretty Much All Regulations Were Created in a Way to Preserve Existing Industry

2.) Free Markets ARE the Voluntary Exchange of Good and Services... So, they are Self-Regulating... In that, if people demand "greener" stuff, they will get "greener" stuff

3.) European Nations are also more ETHNICALLY homogeneous, with much smaller IQ gaps... Plus, European Economies are not necessarily more Regulated, they just have larger Welfare Programs and Higher Taxes
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darkkermit
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10/9/2011 12:09:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 12:00:01 AM, jimtimmy wrote:

1.) Pretty Much All Regulations Were Created in a Way to Preserve Existing Industry

This is a fact difficult to prove since there are many regulations, and proving the history and rationale for them is difficult.

2.) Free Markets ARE the Voluntary Exchange of Good and Services... So, they are Self-Regulating... In that, if people demand "greener" stuff, they will get "greener" stuff

Exchanges have externalities. Deceptive practices can trick others. People are ignorant about health and safety information. Markets aren't necessarily in full competition. Information isn't necessarily perfect.

3.) European Nations are also more ETHNICALLY homogeneous, with much smaller IQ gaps... Plus, European Economies are not necessarily more Regulated, they just have larger Welfare Programs and Higher Taxes

IQs vary quite a bit between individuals. Yes, especially France, is very regulated.
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jimtimmy
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10/9/2011 12:19:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 12:09:48 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:00:01 AM, jimtimmy wrote:

1.) Pretty Much All Regulations Were Created in a Way to Preserve Existing Industry

This is a fact difficult to prove since there are many regulations, and proving the history and rationale for them is difficult.

True

2.) Free Markets ARE the Voluntary Exchange of Good and Services... So, they are Self-Regulating... In that, if people demand "greener" stuff, they will get "greener" stuff

Exchanges have externalities. Deceptive practices can trick others. People are ignorant about health and safety information. Markets aren't necessarily in full competition. Information isn't necessarily perfect.

And the State DOES have perfect Information?

This criticism ignores that the State IS part of the market... Although it is coercive and violent, the laws of reality still apply to the state

3.) European Nations are also more ETHNICALLY homogeneous, with much smaller IQ gaps... Plus, European Economies are not necessarily more Regulated, they just have larger Welfare Programs and Higher Taxes

IQs vary quite a bit between individuals. Yes, especially France, is very regulated.

Ya... and... IQ still varies less in European Countries because they are less racially diverse...

And, look at the Scandinavian Countries... Very low Inequality AND low Regulations (or, at least, not heavy regulations)....

Lost of ethnic homogenity and big welfare state though
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darkkermit
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10/9/2011 12:28:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 12:19:08 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:09:48 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:00:01 AM, jimtimmy wrote:

1.) Pretty Much All Regulations Were Created in a Way to Preserve Existing Industry

This is a fact difficult to prove since there are many regulations, and proving the history and rationale for them is difficult.

True

2.) Free Markets ARE the Voluntary Exchange of Good and Services... So, they are Self-Regulating... In that, if people demand "greener" stuff, they will get "greener" stuff

Exchanges have externalities. Deceptive practices can trick others. People are ignorant about health and safety information. Markets aren't necessarily in full competition. Information isn't necessarily perfect.

And the State DOES have perfect Information?

This criticism ignores that the State IS part of the market... Although it is coercive and violent, the laws of reality still apply to the state

3.) European Nations are also more ETHNICALLY homogeneous, with much smaller IQ gaps... Plus, European Economies are not necessarily more Regulated, they just have larger Welfare Programs and Higher Taxes

IQs vary quite a bit between individuals. Yes, especially France, is very regulated.

Ya... and... IQ still varies less in European Countries because they are less racially diverse...

And, look at the Scandinavian Countries... Very low Inequality AND low Regulations (or, at least, not heavy regulations)....

Lost of ethnic homogenity and big welfare state though

My main contention was that just because that all regulation is evilz. Some regulation is good and some is bad. If one creates regulation so that radiative poison isn't dumped into the river, that's an example of good regulation. If food corporations are putting large doses of carcinogenics in food, its good regulation to state that corporations can't do that.
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jimtimmy
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10/9/2011 12:32:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 12:28:22 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:19:08 AM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:09:48 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:00:01 AM, jimtimmy wrote:

1.) Pretty Much All Regulations Were Created in a Way to Preserve Existing Industry

This is a fact difficult to prove since there are many regulations, and proving the history and rationale for them is difficult.

True

2.) Free Markets ARE the Voluntary Exchange of Good and Services... So, they are Self-Regulating... In that, if people demand "greener" stuff, they will get "greener" stuff

Exchanges have externalities. Deceptive practices can trick others. People are ignorant about health and safety information. Markets aren't necessarily in full competition. Information isn't necessarily perfect.

And the State DOES have perfect Information?

This criticism ignores that the State IS part of the market... Although it is coercive and violent, the laws of reality still apply to the state

3.) European Nations are also more ETHNICALLY homogeneous, with much smaller IQ gaps... Plus, European Economies are not necessarily more Regulated, they just have larger Welfare Programs and Higher Taxes

IQs vary quite a bit between individuals. Yes, especially France, is very regulated.

Ya... and... IQ still varies less in European Countries because they are less racially diverse...

And, look at the Scandinavian Countries... Very low Inequality AND low Regulations (or, at least, not heavy regulations)....

Lost of ethnic homogenity and big welfare state though

My main contention was that just because that all regulation is evilz. Some regulation is good and some is bad. If one creates regulation so that radiative poison isn't dumped into the river, that's an example of good regulation. If food corporations are putting large doses of carcinogenics in food, its good regulation to state that corporations can't do that.

They really shouldn't be called regulations, they are actually controls. If the state creates controls, trying to keep people from pooring radioactive poison in the river, people CAN still dump radioactive poison in the river. Now, it would not benefit the person doing the dumping to do the dumping, in the long run, that is...

Again, if corporations were putting large doses of carcinogenics in food, people would not ead taht food... And, if they are hiding this fact, they would hide it from the state as well (or maybe bribe the state to ignore it...)
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darkkermit
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10/9/2011 12:42:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 12:32:58 AM, jimtimmy wrote:

They really shouldn't be called regulations, they are actually controls. If the state creates controls, trying to keep people from pooring radioactive poison in the river, people CAN still dump radioactive poison in the river. Now, it would not benefit the person doing the dumping to do the dumping, in the long run, that is...

Except they are likely to get arrested for it. Whistle blowers exist plus regulators come around. If your radiation is supposed to be stored and its dumped into the river, regulators will take notice.

Again, if corporations were putting large doses of carcinogenics in food, people would not ead taht food... And, if they are hiding this fact, they would hide it from the state as well (or maybe bribe the state to ignore it...)

Just do a food inspection for the carcinogenics. Not that hard. Now the state can't do all of them of course, but it can definitely take a sample and find it. Also your forgetting that whistelblowers exist.
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jimtimmy
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10/9/2011 12:54:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 12:42:33 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 12:32:58 AM, jimtimmy wrote:

They really shouldn't be called regulations, they are actually controls. If the state creates controls, trying to keep people from pooring radioactive poison in the river, people CAN still dump radioactive poison in the river. Now, it would not benefit the person doing the dumping to do the dumping, in the long run, that is...

Except they are likely to get arrested for it. Whistle blowers exist plus regulators come around. If your radiation is supposed to be stored and its dumped into the river, regulators will take notice.

With or without the state, people can still dump poison in rivers... And, with or without the state, people will still get pissed off at whoever did it... The state is not the only one that can regulate... People can, even without a state

Again, if corporations were putting large doses of carcinogenics in food, people would not ead taht food... And, if they are hiding this fact, they would hide it from the state as well (or maybe bribe the state to ignore it...)

Just do a food inspection for the carcinogenics. Not that hard. Now the state can't do all of them of course, but it can definitely take a sample and find it. Also your forgetting that whistelblowers exist.

Again, a state is NOT necessary for food inspections... Private Companies can easily do food inspections. In fact, people will probably demand this... so it will happen in a free market... If these private food inpectors are not reliable, people will disregard them
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